[mndless]

Meet-Up Notes 9/14/21

Okay, here's the final batch of listening impressions! Did a speed-run yesterday courtesy of MRS being a homie as usual. As usual, this is with 15-20 minutes of listening on each IEM and done off of my iBasso DX300.

Drop x JVC FWX1: I was hoping for an improved FDX1, but the FWX1 is simply not good. It fixes the slightly metallic decay and general leanness of the FDX1, sure, but its gone way too far in the opposite direction. Bass is bloated and overly warm, thus blunting note definition, and there's some serious peakiness going on in the lower-treble. Treble doesn't extend very far either which lends to a congested, fatiguing presentation. To be perfectly honest? This IEM is a mess. There's nothing about it that remotely merits double the FDX1's price. The shells also feel cheap and the channel matching of this unit doesn't inspire confidence.

Fiio FD3: Not much that has to be said here. It's a Fiio IEM. I sort of just know when I hear one at this point. Tuning profile is generally okay up until the lower-treble where there's just way too much 5kHz. Treble has an unpleasant sheen, and I'm pretty sure this is partly to blame for why all of their IEMs sound so compressed. This just sounds really generic. I can't think of anything it's doing that stands out for $100.

SeeAudio Bravery: Pretty decent. I probably should have put more ear time on this one, but I have my own unit on the way anyways. Nothing wrong with the overall tonal balance here, just hits pretty close to neutral-warm. Technicalities are probably around Blessing 2 level (maybe, I didn't A/B them) with the Bravery sporting better treble extension, timbre, and coherency from memory. The BA bass is not horrible. The Bravery just sounds kind of light to transients with not much density all-round. That aside, I think this is a solid recommendation for $280, but I'll need more ear time. Got distracted A/B-ing Helios and S8.

Tanchjim Prism: Tanchjim doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to their flagship IEMs; unfortunately, the Prism seems to fall into the same vein as the maligned Darling. The Prism has decent technicalities (probably Darling level from memory), but nothing that makes me think they're $600 good. The overall tonality here is also somewhat strident and too lean for my preferences. The treble has a tinny, thin characteristic that is hard to ignore in particular. I do feel like the decay and general timbre of the Sonion BAs being used in Tanchjim's IEMs is very good, though. You can definitely tell they're using high-quality drivers. And that pretty much sums it up: Quality components and build being capsized by milquetoast tuning and price.

Tin Audio T2 Evo: Yeah, this is pretty bad. The Evo has solid note definition for $50, but the tuning is in some serious need of work. Where most IEMs would be sloping off the upper-midrange, the T2 Evo slopes straight up into the lower-treble. This comes with all the usual problems of too much head-voice and a fatiguing treble response that sounds incredibly unnatural. See y'all next month with impressions on the next flop iteration of this aging IEM.

Tripowin x HBB Mele: The Mele has a bassy, dark tonality that definitely reminds me of the BLON-BL03 and, to a lesser extent, the Moondrop Aria. I gave it a quick A/B with the Aria and deemed it to be an unfair comparison; the Aria is simply a couple steps ahead in the technical department (as it should be for $30 more). It's more of a toss-up versus the BL03. I do find the BL03 to still have a slight edge in technicalities and noticeably better treble extension, but I think the Mele has a slightly better midrange tonality. If you don't already have a BL03, the Mele is an easy recommendation because the build and accessories are much better. Solid package overall for $50; it's nice to hear an IEM with some character.

Drop x JVC FWX1	3/10
Fiio FD3	3/10
SeeAudio Bravery	TBD/10
Tanchjim Prism	5/10
Tin Audio T2 Evo	3/10
Tripowin x HBB Mele	4/10

Additionally, here's a written interview I did with @SenyorC if anyone wants to check it out: https://english.achoreviews.com/2021/09/interview-precogvision-of-headphonescom.html

I thoroughly appreciate how brutal you're willing to be when something doesn't perform as well as it should. A shame about the Prism. For that price, it really should do better than that, especially when their Oxygen is such a beloved IEM.

 

[WAON303]

Looks like Tanchjim can't make stellar flagship models, they are competent on technicalities (Particularly imaging.) but seem to mess up their flagship models when tuning them. Wonder when they'll stop living in Moondrop's shadow?

The Bravery graphs like a superior EST 112: Less upper midrange shoutiness and way better treble extension. Will consider this one whenever I buy a mid-fi IEM

Speaking of the Mele, Precog's graph is different than BGGAR's graph when viewing the treble. On his graph, the upper treble doesn't roll off into the abyss like a Westone IEM.

 

[Precogvision]

Speaking of the Mele, Precog's graph is different than BGGAR's graph when viewing the treble. On his graph, the upper treble doesn't roll off into the abyss like a Westone IEM.

Hmm, good point. This is MRS's unit and both of our couplers graph this Mele similarly in the treble. The difference with HBB's graph is likely attributable to individual unit or coupler differences. My coupler and MRS's, for example, tend to have more roll-off past 15kHz than Crin's. That said, the graph I took does largely reflect what I hear for this individual unit, so I'm guessing it's more along the lines of unit differences.

 

[tgx78]

Also I think there might be a difference in eartips used for the measurement. Wide-bore silicone eartips vs. narrow or medium bore, stem thickness, sealing properties, etc.

Above is the same SE11 measured by me and @Precogvision in two different couplers in two different locations and yep they look different. Mine shows a bit more subbass amplitude and 20kHz extension probably due to different software used (audiotools vs REW) and Vancouver humidity lol.

 

[Sajid Amit]

Dunu Zen Pro Impressions

I can talk about this now. The DUNU Zen was released roughly six months ago. It was a project that I had excitedly been following for months; the graph looked good, and there was the undeniable allure of a single DD, endgame IEM. Alas, when I got around to hearing my review unit, I was...disappointed. The Zen sounded dark, congested, and generally harsh. I hesitated to drop my review, even prolonging it for months before eventually releasing it.

It’s worth noting that there were people who loved the Zen. But DUNU, highly receptive of feedback as they are, have since opted to release a direct replacement to the Zen called the Zen Pro. It will be released in due time with the IEM hitting international markets first. For now, myself and a number of other reviewers - MRS, Resolve, and Antdroid - were asked if we’d like to participate in testing of the IEM with an experimental twist. We would do blind listening without knowledge of the graph or running sine sweeps, write down our thoughts, check the graphs, and then re-evaluate. The Zen Pro was an ideal candidate for this because it was a brand-new IEM that no one had seen before; therefore, there were no existing impressions to confound our own. It was definitely an exciting prospect, as the opportunities for this stuff are limited.

Spoiler: Photos

Almost everything is exactly the same as the Zen physically. The only difference is a new titanium finish which I think looks even better than the original.

Zen Pro Notes (without knowledge of the graph, and with a couple hours of listening):

Generally, the overall tonal balance of the Zen Pro hits closer to neutral, whereas the Zen follows more of a dark V-shape (that, honestly, I find somewhat all over the place).

• Bass notes are slightly cleaner on the Zen Pro due to less mid-bass. Clearly not as warm as the Zen on Dreamcatcher’s “Can’t Get You Out of My Mind”.
• Pinna compensation has been dialed back slightly for a cleaner midrange. The perception of a cleaner midrange might also be because some of the bulk in the lower-midrange seems to have been cut. Zen has more texture and body with male vocals on Joe Nichols’ “Sunny and 75”. The Zen Pro’s transition between upper-midrange and lower treble, so say 3-5kHz, appears to follow more of a gentle slope than the Zen did. The opening of Loona’s “Eclipse” has less of a jut to the “s” consonances on the word “sparks”. It’s still not as smooth in this transition as, say, the Moondrop Variations though, as a slightly “glassy” quality pervades which probably isn’t aided by the quicker decay.
• The Zen Pro is not as dark after 10kHz, but is still not particularly airy. Cymbals on Sawano’s “Cage” still lack extension, and the shakers are missing shimmer. The main difference would be that the 9kHz peak on the Zen has been attenuated for a smoother treble response. Percussive hits in the front-left channel of “Into the New World” sound more tonally correct (as does everything else about the treble in general).

The Zen Pro sounds less downwards-compressed than the Zen; however, most of the Zen’s issues in that regard stemmed from the treble response. I wouldn’t say the Zen Pro’s staging sounds like a particular improvement. It’s more so the layering department - distinction between individual instrument lines, vocals, and positioning - that has seen a considerable jump thanks to the tuning. I would say that timbre still has that slightly weird metallic tinge to it at times, perhaps due to a quicker decay like what the JVC FDX1 exhibits. The Zen Pro is still not as timbrally pleasing as the Moondrop KXXS, even if it does have better resolution.

Spoiler: FR Graphs

Post-Knowledge of the Graph Thoughts:

Overall, I’d say my thoughts line up with the graph pretty darn closely. I nailed the pinna compensation and the 3-5kHz region, and mostly got the lower-midrange and bass regions correct relative to how the measurements depict the differences.

The treble, however, isn’t as smooth as I initially thought. Running a sine sweep, the peak at 8kHz is still fairly present - just the amplitude has been lowered relative to the Zen. So I was sort of correct about that. But there’s also an additional peak at 11kHz. I’m guessing it’s harder to notice the 11kHz peak on cursory listening because it’s been positioned higher up, near the air frequencies. This also likely contributes to the Zen Pro’s slightly metallic timbre, not unlike the Focal Clear (although not to that same degree). I do find myself noticing this now after having seen the graph.

Further listening does seem to indicate that the Zen Pro’s ability to articulate the “weight” and intensity of dynamic swings is weaker than the original Zen’s, It’s also flatter for range as whole; however, this is a small price to pay for the improved tonal balance in my opinion.

Final Thoughts

I like the Zen Pro. I hear a lot more of the Luna’s excellent technical performance and, even better, the Zen Pro is considerably more balanced in terms of tonality. To my ears, it presents a decided improvement over the Zen. You might be surprised to know that isn’t something I find with many “Pro” and “MK.II” versions of IEMs.

Now, whether it's competitive for the projected asking price (still TBD, I believe) is more difficult to say. Within the context of single-DDs, yes, there’s a strong possibility. I definitely like the Zen Pro more than the Moondrop Illumination, but I also didn't think the Illumination was nearly worth $800. Cayin's new Fantasy was also, well, nothing more than a fantasy for the price it was intended to command. After hearing the Sennheiser IE900, I don’t think the Zen Pro has that same special sauce, but it’s certainly better in terms of raw tuning. I guess time will tell on this front.

Score: 6/10

(for reference, I gave the Zen Pro an “A-“ on the survey which used a letter grade scale)

Very useful. I share your exact thoughts on the OG Zen.

Going by this, I tempted to get the IE900 as I tend to be a sucker for some of that single DD magic you refer to.

 

[Xinlisupreme]

Another graph of it on my rig and my target. This is a really excellent IEM imo. If it fit my right ear a little better, I'd probably buy one too.

@antdroid where can I see Simphonio lineup?
I know only VR1, P10 and RX10… I know Rx100 is coming but I can’t find info on simphonio website.

 

[tgx78]

@antdroid where can I see Simphonio lineup?
I know only VR1, P10 and RX10… I know Rx100 is coming but I can’t find info on simphonio website.

Symphonium is a different company from the Simphonio, if you were wondering about the Helios

 

[Stuff Jones]

Any more impressions of the Zen Pro? I know a few more HFers have heard them besides @Precogvision and @antdroid.

They don't seem like a clear upgrade from the non pros. Better tuned in the upper mids and treble, but seem to lose some of the lower frequency tactile magic that people loved about the OG Zen.

 

[Strifeff7]

Any more impressions of the Zen Pro? I know a few more HFers have heard them besides @Precogvision and @antdroid.

They don't seem like a clear upgrade from the non pros. Better tuned in the upper mids and treble, but seem to lose some of the lower frequency tactile magic that people loved about the OG Zen.

yes it's a trade off,
OG bass + Pro mids and treble would be ideal,

but it will cost $1.500,
*cough turii *cough

 

[Precogvision]

DUNU Falcon Pro Impressions

Spoiler: FR Graph

This showed up today, so I'll actually jot down some quick thoughts before CanJam SoCal this weekend. I went through the filters pretty quickly - mainly just to take measurements - but so far I think my preferred filter is the Reference. Ironic, then, that I find very little "reference" about the Falcon Pro's sound signature. It has a warm, thick, mid-bassy presentation. Female vocals generally come off as slightly recessed as does the treble response which is mostly lower-treble oriented. But tonally, it's not a big deal. There's no midrange sibilance or harshness in the treble. I find the overall sound here quite pleasant if not somewhat mainstream, perhaps akin to the Apple AirPods Pro.

The main problem is the negative impact that this signature has on the Falcon Pro's resolution. Notes have a measure of blunting that is enough to make me concerned for $220. This isn't helped by said notes being imaged "grander than life," for lack of a better phrase, which impedes the Falcon Pro's layering ability. A bit of a double-edged sword on that front, as I do enjoy this type of imaging quality. What else? I find the Falcon Pro to suffer from some dynamic compression where it doesn't always capture loud moments as well as I'd like. Not too surprising to be honest. I'll tell you what is surprising, though: for a more traditional sense of macro-dynamics, the Falcon Pro is darn competent. It punches into swings with a good sense of physicality that belies most (perhaps all?) IEMs I've heard at this price point. I can certainly appreciate that; the Eclipse driver technology is no gimmick.

So overall, I think this is a pretty decent IEM. There's no real, major mistakes to the tonal balance, and it at least has some special sauce which would keep me listening in the long run. While I also don't think the Falcon Pro beats out my established $200 heavy-hitters, stack on great build and accessories and you have yourself a pretty solid package.

Score: 5/10

 

[Ace Bee]

DUNU Falcon Pro Impressions

Spoiler: FR Graph

This showed up today, so I'll actually jot down some quick thoughts before CanJam SoCal this weekend. I went through the filters pretty quickly - mainly just to take measurements - but so far I think my preferred filter is the Reference. Ironic, then, that I find very little "reference" about the Falcon Pro's sound signature. It has a warm, thick, mid-bassy presentation. Female vocals generally come off as slightly recessed as does the treble response which is mostly lower-treble oriented. But tonally, it's not a big deal. There's no midrange sibilance or harshness in the treble. I find the overall sound here quite pleasant if not somewhat mainstream, perhaps akin to the Apple AirPods Pro.

The main problem is the negative impact that this signature has on the Falcon Pro's resolution. Notes have a measure of blunting that is enough to make me concerned for $220. This isn't helped by said notes being imaged "grander than life," for lack of a better phrase, which impedes the Falcon Pro's layering ability. A bit of a double-edged sword on that front, as I do enjoy this type of imaging quality. What else? I find the Falcon Pro to suffer from some dynamic compression where it doesn't always capture loud moments as well as I'd like. Not too surprising to be honest. I'll tell you what is surprising, though: for a more traditional sense of macro-dynamics, the Falcon Pro is darn competent. It punches into swings with a good sense of physicality that belies most (perhaps all?) IEMs I've heard at this price point. I can certainly appreciate that; the Eclipse driver technology is no gimmick.

So overall, I think this is a pretty decent IEM. There's no real, major mistakes to the tonal balance, and it at least has some special sauce which would keep me listening in the long run. While I also don't think the Falcon Pro beats out my established $200 heavy-hitters, stack on great build and accessories and you have yourself a pretty solid package.

Score: 5/10

Do you have a list of your $200 heavy-hitters? The google sheet file has no price-wise segment.

Also, what do you mean by Notes being imaged "grander than life"? Notes are quite bigger in size compared to other iems in similar price segments, or notes are projected in a soundstage with much more accuracy and distinction, with easily identified individual positions?

 

[Precogvision]

Do you have a list of your $200 heavy-hitters? The google sheet file has no price-wise segment.

Also, what do you mean by Notes being imaged "grander than life"? Notes are quite bigger in size compared to other iems in similar price segments, or notes are projected in a soundstage with much more accuracy and distinction, with easily identified individual positions?

Hey, good question. I was mainly thinking of the Tanchjim Hana 2021 and the Etymotic ER2XR when I said $200 heavy-hitters. By "grander than life," I'm referring to the former where notes seemingly have good size to them and they encapsulate more ground on the stage.

If you want more context on some of the terms I use when talking about soundstage and imaging, you can give this post a read:

https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2021/08/what-is-imaging-in-audio-and-thoughts.html

 

[InvisibleInk]

DUNU Falcon Pro Impressions

Spoiler: FR Graph

This showed up today, so I'll actually jot down some quick thoughts before CanJam SoCal this weekend. I went through the filters pretty quickly - mainly just to take measurements - but so far I think my preferred filter is the Reference. Ironic, then, that I find very little "reference" about the Falcon Pro's sound signature. It has a warm, thick, mid-bassy presentation. Female vocals generally come off as slightly recessed as does the treble response which is mostly lower-treble oriented. But tonally, it's not a big deal. There's no midrange sibilance or harshness in the treble. I find the overall sound here quite pleasant if not somewhat mainstream, perhaps akin to the Apple AirPods Pro.

The main problem is the negative impact that this signature has on the Falcon Pro's resolution. Notes have a measure of blunting that is enough to make me concerned for $220. This isn't helped by said notes being imaged "grander than life," for lack of a better phrase, which impedes the Falcon Pro's layering ability. A bit of a double-edged sword on that front, as I do enjoy this type of imaging quality. What else? I find the Falcon Pro to suffer from some dynamic compression where it doesn't always capture loud moments as well as I'd like. Not too surprising to be honest. I'll tell you what is surprising, though: for a more traditional sense of macro-dynamics, the Falcon Pro is darn competent. It punches into swings with a good sense of physicality that belies most (perhaps all?) IEMs I've heard at this price point. I can certainly appreciate that; the Eclipse driver technology is no gimmick.

So overall, I think this is a pretty decent IEM. There's no real, major mistakes to the tonal balance, and it at least has some special sauce which would keep me listening in the long run. While I also don't think the Falcon Pro beats out my established $200 heavy-hitters, stack on great build and accessories and you have yourself a pretty solid package.

Score: 5/10

This sounds exactly like my kind of thing. Thanks, and enjoy CanJam!

 

[SHOOTINGTECHIE]

DUNU Falcon Pro Impressions

Spoiler: FR Graph

This showed up today, so I'll actually jot down some quick thoughts before CanJam SoCal this weekend. I went through the filters pretty quickly - mainly just to take measurements - but so far I think my preferred filter is the Reference. Ironic, then, that I find very little "reference" about the Falcon Pro's sound signature. It has a warm, thick, mid-bassy presentation. Female vocals generally come off as slightly recessed as does the treble response which is mostly lower-treble oriented. But tonally, it's not a big deal. There's no midrange sibilance or harshness in the treble. I find the overall sound here quite pleasant if not somewhat mainstream, perhaps akin to the Apple AirPods Pro.

The main problem is the negative impact that this signature has on the Falcon Pro's resolution. Notes have a measure of blunting that is enough to make me concerned for $220. This isn't helped by said notes being imaged "grander than life," for lack of a better phrase, which impedes the Falcon Pro's layering ability. A bit of a double-edged sword on that front, as I do enjoy this type of imaging quality. What else? I find the Falcon Pro to suffer from some dynamic compression where it doesn't always capture loud moments as well as I'd like. Not too surprising to be honest. I'll tell you what is surprising, though: for a more traditional sense of macro-dynamics, the Falcon Pro is darn competent. It punches into swings with a good sense of physicality that belies most (perhaps all?) IEMs I've heard at this price point. I can certainly appreciate that; the Eclipse driver technology is no gimmick.

So overall, I think this is a pretty decent IEM. There's no real, major mistakes to the tonal balance, and it at least has some special sauce which would keep me listening in the long run. While I also don't think the Falcon Pro beats out my established $200 heavy-hitters, stack on great build and accessories and you have yourself a pretty solid package.

Score: 5/10

How do they compare against the likes of bravery ?

 

[Precogvision]

Checked into the hotel for CanJam today and finally got to meet the Headphones.com crew in the flesh! It's going to be a busy next couple days, but I'll be doing my best to run around, hear all the new IEMs, and write-up impressions. Also got to steal a certain IEM after the team meeting:

Spoiler

I'll say it's purrty sweet on initial listen, but I'm also exhausted from driving most of the day so more thoughts will have to wait.