[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfboardz26 Ordinary power cords can experience current loss and are vulnerable to radio frequency and electromagnetic interference.

I think you meant voltage loss (drop), due to wire resistance. Current measures the number of electrons flowing, and electrons can't get lost unless there is another conductive path. To reduce voltage drop, one simply uses thicker wires or shorter lengths, and the use of ultra-high-purity copper or silver does not address the issue of voltage drop.

 

[surfboardz26]

ferbose, Your right, i mean voltage loss. Good catch. There are so many smart people here... I wonder if it has anything to do with music...(new thread?)

 

[Garbz]

Nope it has to do with powercords and sound.

Mind you unless you have equipment which needs to pull some 2400watt of juice for it's transients, the best power cord in the world won't help since the voltage drop and resistance won't come into play.

The fact that most of the people I know with powercords put them on their amps is even crazier. You don't need 12AWG wire on a DAC, hell a single strand of 24AWG wire will do. A clamp metre around the powerchord while the dac is running will scientifically prove that.

 

[Welly Wu]

I got my Volex 17604 power cords today. Shipping was very quick to my home. I plugged in one A/C cord between my BPT power unit and RSA Emmeline HR-2. Having done so, I can safely say that the "blackground" is complete. I used to hear a buzzing sound that was only detectable with no CD playing and all of my equipment on but the volume pot turned all the way down. That just about killed low level detail retrieval especially for classical music since that comprises over 50% of my music collection. These Volexy 17604 power cords do what some expensive boutique power cords (cough cough Cardas Golden Reference, PS Audio xStream Plus) do which is to lower the background noise. I don't think others will notice this effect since most people do not own Ultimate Ears Ue-10 PRO earphones with 13.3 Ohms of sensitivity rating. But, I do notice it right away. This alone is worth their crazy low price of about $5.50 USD per power cord. You could spend much more money to get the same effect, as I have, but why?

I like this aspect about the power cord alone. I can not safely say that any other change has occured and no I do not believe in that bogus BS crap about burn in. At least my digital rig is dead silent now. I am happy I decided to take a leap of faith and buy these Volex 17604 power cords. They are a cheap solution to a simple problem.

They do look like overbuilt power cords on steroids.

 

[giovanni]

come on guys, who's going to deny that those fat, colorful cords are just sexy and we love the fact that we paid 1000s for them !

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu I got my Volex 17604 power cords today. Shipping was very quick to my home. I plugged in one A/C cord between my BPT power unit and RSA Emmeline HR-2. Having done so, I can safely say that the "blackground" is complete. I used to hear a buzzing sound that was only detectable with no CD playing and all of my equipment on but the volume pot turned all the way down. That just about killed low level detail retrieval especially for classical music since that comprises over 50% of my music collection. These Volexy 17604 power cords do what some expensive boutique power cords (cough cough Cardas Golden Reference, PS Audio xStream Plus) do which is to lower the background noise. I don't think others will notice this effect since most people do not own Ultimate Ears Ue-10 PRO earphones with 13.3 Ohms of sensitivity rating. But, I do notice it right away. This alone is worth their crazy low price of about $5.50 USD per power cord. You could spend much more money to get the same effect, as I have, but why? I like this aspect about the power cord alone. I can not safely say that any other change has occured and no I do not believe in that bogus BS crap about burn in. At least my digital rig is dead silent now. I am happy I decided to take a leap of faith and buy these Volex 17604 power cords. They are a cheap solution to a simple problem. They do look like overbuilt power cords on steroids.

Pre-molded power cords may look cheap, but it is simply a way to ensure good contact within the plug when you build millions of cords. Yes, these power cord factories can make millions of cords a year, and each and everyone of them can pass independent testing by UL. I believe most steps from assembly to testing are automated. I once saw a picture of a machine that tests hundreds of cords automatically, and realized that quality control on these cheapo power cords is really a lot higher than their price and look would suggest.
Volex 17604 is probably one of the best pre-molded power cords on the market, when I looked through several commecrcial catalogs. (Volex is a daughter company of Belden).

I concur with Welly's observation that noise floor reduction is the most obvious effect with power-related products, including cords and conditioners. I don't exactly know why, but shielded power cords sound cleaner with lower background noise in my sytem. Even stock 18AWG shielded cord I got with my projector sounds cleaner than a 10AWG/silver-plated-copper/hospital-grade-plug cord or a 16AWG/low-leakage-hospital-grade cord I have tried. I do not have sensitive headphones like UE-10 to allow me to directly listen to the noise floor of every component. Even if power related noise is sub-threshold, it can still be easily audible once music is playing. This issue has been lengthily discussed in this thread: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=166457
Therefore, lowering sub-threshold (inaudible) noise-floor by another few dB to even more inaudible degrees still improves sound quality.

BTW, everything should be put into perspective. Power cord differences to my ears are really tiny. Power conditioners make slightly bigger differences, but it just helps the component operate more smoothly, instead of transforming into something much better. Say my Honda Civic needs 30 psi tire pressure. Going from 24 psi to 30 psi makes it run more smoothly, but it won't give it the agility of Acura RSX. That's how I feel about upgrding power conditioners and power cords. If I were to spend a few hundred dollars, it would definitely be for K701 instead of some brand-name power cord. I simply believe no power cord and cable upgrade is going to make my K501 sound as good as K701, despite all those "night and day" differences proclaimed on a daily basis. I would not even call the difference between K501 and K701 "night and day," for goodness sake.

 

[imported_Matt_Carter]

Oo for fudge sakes....

Too many people hear a difference to discredit them all. If you can't hear it, sucks to be you. Learn to deal with your deficiencies.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_Carter Oo for fudge sakes.... Too many people hear a difference to discredit them all. If you can't hear it, sucks to be you. Learn to deal with your deficiencies.

Please not with the intention of creating a flame war, but indeed there are more people that do not, to discredit them neither, this applies both ways...right?

BTW what deficiencies are you talking about, do you have think for a moment, in case those differences where real and apply to all systems, that maybe the ones who do not hear them, do not have any problem to be corrected in the AC power line, and that is why there is no difference to their ears....That is another possibility, right? Or that maybe their PSUs are a lot better, and less prone to those anomalies???

BTW most of the ones who do not, had tried them, as they have stated, or maybe had purchased them, and still own them, and they at least had the honesty and the balls, of saying I invested in that, or I have tried that, and I do not hear any differences, consider me a fool if you want....OTOH the others that who claim to hear the differences, there is a possibility, that maybe some of them are under the influence of the placebo, or maybe why not, they are just trying to justify the investment they did, to feel less fools in front of the rest.....

Anyway, I can assure you, that you will find a lot more listeners that do not hear them, and that do not believe in that voodoo, that the ones who does...otherwise these cables would come standard in our equipment, and they do not....Just think for a moment, how much would cost Sony, or Rotel, or Nagra, or Onkyo, or Denon, or Marantz or any other brand to include a cheap good Volex cable with the gear (instead of most of the cases the only two prong cable) if they alone cost us directly, and purchasing only one $6.00??? In a 1000.00 or more equipment, maybe 2-3.00 is nothing to be considered.....

 

[RichA]

The thoughts of an uneducated 'audiophile-wannabe' who is happy with his system:-

Power cords - have you ever looked at what is behind the wall socket? Or even inside the amplifier? Take your car down 10 miles of country lanes and it'll be covered in mud. Take the same car down 8 miles of lanes and 2 miles of fast, smooth road and the difference will be... naff all.

If the noise is there, it won't suddenly go away unless the source of the noise is removed.

We hear what we want to hear. If we want to be happy with our setup, then we will be. If we want to tinker and fiddle with it, then we will do.

Enjoy it.

--Rich

 

[giovanni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_Carter Oo for fudge sakes.... Too many people hear a difference to discredit them all. If you can't hear it, sucks to be you. Learn to deal with your deficiencies.

PLEASE ALL TAKE NOTE, SINCE THIS IS A FANTASTIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT A STUPID LOSER IS ALL ABOUT !

 

[Patrick82]

Most aftermarket power cords make the sound worse than stock cords, so yes it affects the sound.
For my power amp I did a comparison between a single Nordost Valhalla, modded triple Nordost Vishnu (4 conductors), and PS Audio xStream Statement. The differences were night and day.

With Statement, there was great bass but all the subtle sounds were gone, I could not hear vocalists open their mouths anymore.

With triple Vishnu, it sounded thin and flat but much more detailed than Statement. It was at least as detailed as Valhalla but had less body; imaging was more pinpoint.

Valhalla sounded very dynamic without any weaknesses, it had the detail of stock with the black background of Statement.


I also experimented with different amount of conductors for Vishnu and Valhalla and the sound signature remained the same but the brightness and bass changed. A quad Vishnu (5 conductors) sounded flat and thin like a single Vishnu (1 conductor), but the brightness was gone and it had the smoothest sound I have ever heard.

Personally I would choose a stock cord over any shielded aftermarket power cord because I rather want detail than a blacker background.
When I compared a single Vishnu against a stock cord I almost couldn't hear a difference, so I would choose a stock cord over a single Vishnu as well (because of the price), unless I modify it into a dual Vishnu which I am using with my DAC-1 right now.
As for the Valhalla, people say it's overpriced but I would pay 10 times the retail price for it, but that's just me. Or even better, I would buy the tools to manufacture it and re-wire the house and streets with it...

 

[HumanMedia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichA Power cords - have you ever looked at what is behind the wall socket? Or even inside the amplifier? Take your car down 10 miles of country lanes and it'll be covered in mud. Take the same car down 8 miles of lanes and 2 miles of fast, smooth road and the difference will be... naff all. If the noise is there, it won't suddenly go away unless the source of the noise is removed.

Behind the socket is hefty 11 awg powercable to the nearest transformer which might be on the same street/block. The transformer will remove a great deal of noise, and the majority of potential interference will occur when it hits your fuse box then into the cheap thin domestic power cables and multiple lower quality plug connections into your equipment. The 2m length of your powercables are an ideal length to pick up RFI (and resonate) from outside but more likely from inside you and your neighbours house, from dimmer switches, air conditioners, fridges, elevators, wireless networking, microwave ovens, TV sets, computers etc etc

Unless you are in a commercial or industrial area the majority of interference after the transformer on your block, will happen from your fusebox on, where you will have multiple lower quality connections, thin gauge cable and lots of interference.

 

[HumanMedia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichA Power cords - have you ever looked at what is behind the wall socket? Or even inside the amplifier?

Yes and thats why I ignored the isuue for years, disbelieving that after being transformed and rectified inside the equipment that it should make no difference. But then I had a look at waveforms after they are rectified and they still keep the top part of the waveform which can have a great deal of variation. The form of the top part of the waveform can affect different equipment differently, which is why some power conditioners (even ones that dont limit current) can be detrimental to various equipment (like digital amplifiers). Also whilst transformers can attentuate RFI, its only attenuation, and the remainder can easily get through and affect digital equipment.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanMedia Behind the socket is hefty 11 awg powercable to the nearest transformer which might be on the same street/block. The transformer will remove most noise, and the majority of potential interference will occur when it hits your fuse box then into the cheap thin domestic power cables and multiple lower quality plug connections into your equipment. The 2m length of your powercables are an ideal length to pick up RFI from outside but more likely from inside your and your neighbours house, from dimmer switches, air conditioners, fridges, elevators, wireless networking, microwave ovens, TV sets, computers etc etc Unless you are in a commercial or industrial area the majority of interference after the transformer on your block, will happen from your fusebox on, where you will have multiple lower quality connections, thin gauge cable and lots of interference.

Correct me if I am wrong: all your household appliances/electronics will inject noise into your home outlet, and your whole block's neighbors' appliances/electronics as well. That's a lot of noise (electromagnetic interfernce) we are talking about. The miles and miles of cable from the power plant to your neighborhood does not matter; what matters is what's between your outlet and the nearest transformer (and all those fridges, garage doors, fans, A/C systems, computers...).

A perfect power cord will pass all the AC outlet noise into your component, while its sheilding or twisted-construction can block some radio-frequency interference. Sheilding is never perfect and is especially useless against 60 Hz interference from other power cords. Shielding itself causes capactitance increase and other complications. Power conditioner is the only way to filter out the noise from the outlet, but some power conditioners may cause certain sonic degradations as well. It is hard to get perfectly clean AC and it is probably not required--good audio gears should have good power supply units inside.

 

[HumanMedia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller ...otherwise these cables would come standard in our equipment, and they do not....Just think for a moment, how much would cost Sony, or Rotel, or Nagra, or Onkyo, or Denon, or Marantz or any other brand to include a cheap good Volex cable with the gear (instead of most of the cases the only two prong cable) if they alone cost us directly, and purchasing only one $6.00??? In a 1000.00 or more equipment, maybe 2-3.00 is nothing to be considered.....

Some amp makers do voice their equipment to a specific (stock) cord, and will sound better with them than many aftermarket cords. Some dont include more expensive cables as even $4 on a bill of materials could increase the retail price by $16. Others feel that the cabling is up the the end user so they can customise their overall sound. Others dont believe or care that it would make a difference (the Sonys etc) Others dont include them as they cant get quantities they need. Case in point: Channel Islands audio recommend the shielded Volex for use with their amplifiers. They looked into shipping them standard with all of their products, but no supplier could provide them with the quantities they needed for all of their products, every month. I dare say that Channel Islands would not a high volume manufacturer. Talk to Dusty if you want more details.