[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by citywithoutmetal stop. think. research. or you'll end up like this guy http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...8447-2001Jun12

I found this sentence amusing:

"They listen and spend, then listen and argue, then listen some more and argue some more"

Classic description.

 

[Garbz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanMedia Im assuming people will buy a complete unit made for this purpose which will include all of the above, not individual transformers.

Ahhh follow now. So you balance the line and convert it back, thus effectively eliminating all common mode noise, and some differntial noise as well. I was under the impression you were talking about the units which just convert the line to a balanced line, in which case it's the amp's or DAC's or whatever's transformers job to convert back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luco Lots of reviews have praised Shunyata's (all passive) power conditioners for plain improving the sound and pretty much the same has been said about their power cords.

Rejecting noise with twists implies capacitance. Some companies believe this is bad. Yet somehow there's always a reviewer who will praise a cable. Also bear in mind that if someone goes to the trouble of reviewing something then he obviously believes he can hear a difference. Reviewer bias often can cause people to hear things that aren't there either. Afterall their lively hood depends on it

 

[felixkrull6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz Reviewer bias often can cause people to hear things that aren't there either. Afterall their lively hood depends on it

Couldn't agree with you more on this one. Imagine a review that said X made absolutely zero difference and actually sounded worse. Automobile reviewing might be as corrupt but at least they put product a against b against c so there has to be some kind of winner or choice made even if a lot of it is subjective. I wish that audio reviewers would do the same although I know this will never happen.

 

[Welly Wu]

I placed an order for two Volex 17604 A/C at six feet lengths from Carlton-Bates today. I should receive them in the next three days. I do not believe in audiophile high priced power cords and I do not believe in the "burn in" effect. However, I decided to try these cables because there are two Head-Fi members whose opinions I trust dearly (i.e. MarkL and Ferbose at opposite ends of the opinion spectra) and they use Belden cables plus they are very very inexpensive. I plan to hook up a Volex 17604 to my Ray Samuels Audio Emmeline HR-2 and I will use the other cable for my ModWright LLC Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi, especially after I get the Wadia 302 with the optional 24bit/96kHz Digital Inputs.

I think that these A/C cords should be interesting. Do they sound better than my Cardas Golden Reference A/C? That would be shocking as they cost a small fortune. I will report my findings by the end of this week. I will also write a review between my Volex 17604 and Cardas Golden Reference A/C cords next month after I finish my Blue Jeans Cable Stereo versus Cardas Golden Reference Interconnects review this month.

 

[panda]

who cares, people are going to drop benjamins on boutique stuff in any hobby, it's most likely all placeo but they think it's cool and makes them feel better, why try to discourage that? i mean let them enjoy their spendings. i'd be annoyed if somebody told me that i just wasted my money. i just bought a pair of sneakers that probably only cost fifteen dollars to make but i think it's badass, whatever...

on that note, i do think aftermarket p/c's are stupid lol.

 

[kin0kin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by felixkrull6 Couldn't agree with you more on this one. Imagine a review that said X made absolutely zero difference and actually sounded worse. Automobile reviewing might be as corrupt but at least they put product a against b against c so there has to be some kind of winner or choice made even if a lot of it is subjective. I wish that audio reviewers would do the same although I know this will never happen.

add in peer pressure....with everybody saying that they hear a difference with a power cord, you'd eventually fall into it, and make yourself hear the difference.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Hospital grade power cords ensure optimal electrical contact. It is mainly a safety concern, because you don't want power cords to pull off easily or cause short-circuits around medical equipment. Therefore the material and assembly qualities of hospital grade power cords are high and they need to go through independent testing for safety specs. For audio purposes, hospital grade power cords can ensure optimal electrical contacts, and bad contacts can be significant sources of resistance and distortion.

Also, "hospital grade" looks really good in audio magazine advertising copy, and sells more power cords at higher prices.

 

[HumanMedia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin add in peer pressure....with everybody saying that they hear a difference with a power cord, you'd eventually fall into it, and make yourself hear the difference.

add in peer pressure....with everybody saying that there is no difference with a power cord, you'd eventually fall into it, and wont even try listening for yourself.


Ahem.

Amongst the power cords I have, one is a 18 awg stock parallel untwisted, the other is 14awg twisted. All standard copper cabling from stuff you find at the hardware store. The audible difference between them is night and day, and the bass response is about 6db different between them. Why their construction has any any audible difference whatsoever is a mystery to me, but they can be demonstrated in seconds. Any one I demonstate them to can instantly hear they make a difference. After they hear for themselves there are no ifs or buts.

Use your ears people, rather than rationalising with year nine level electrical knowledge that there shouldnt be a difference. And learn how to listen, dont just listen to what you normally would in a track (the vocal melody, bassline, or guitar melody) and expect them to be different, but listen to the proportion of bass to the other frequencies, listen to the characteristic of treble especially in high hats and snare - is it rough or smooth? Listen to the midrange - is it natural?

Keep an open mind, listen to different topology cords, and develop your listening skills. And disregard physical looks, marketing hype and other peoples opinions - form your own. Then if you really need to look for the scientific principles that would explain what you hear, then by all means do so. But dont let rudimentary or incomplete understanding of some scientific principles, preclude you from discovering and experiencing real sensory phenomena, which may have quite basic scientifc principles behind them yet are outside your current general knowledge.

 

[surfboardz26]

It is scientifically proven that power cables do make a difference in sound. Weather its audible or not there is a change in the sound.

Lots of people think this is bs, but you can only trust your self when you listen. I can assure you that you can hear a difference on a high-end set up. Give it a try for yourself. The volex 17604 is a great one.

 

[nakedtoes]

Recently i got myself a DIYed 1.5M Belden 83803 power cord for my tube amp.. The first time i plug it in i can hear a significant improvement of sound. Sound are brighter but not harsh while bass tightern up abit. I could not believe it until i plug back the old cord and it sound sucks..

Usually i use ETY ER4S to spot any differences.. They are pair of great IEMs which i can spot the enhancement quite easily

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfboardz26 It is scientifically proven that power cables do make a difference in sound. Weather its audible or not there is a change in the sound. Lots of people think this is bs, but you can only trust your self when you listen. I can assure you that you can hear a difference on a high-end set up. Give it a try for yourself. The volex 17604 is a great one.

Really? Well I have Quail all around while possible of course as some are not detachable, but we are not talking of modest well done power cords, hospital grade, or similar, against ultra-crappy ones, we are talking of comparisons between those modest well done and the boutique ones, and just for curiosity, becasue I have not heard any difference yet, would you mind to ilustrate us, and please post the scientific/statistical info that "prove" that there is a difference in sound while using different power cords, other that in really extreme conditions (of inapropriate gauge for example) other than this or that guy saying so??? Numbers please!!!

 

[surfboardz26]

hey sovkill, a detachable IEC power cord can affect a system’s performance. Your components can’t deliver the best possible sound and picture when AC power is transferred by an inferior cord. Ordinary power cords can experience current loss and are vulnerable to radio frequency and electromagnetic interference. An owner of ps audio showed me a graph of some differences in some powecables. Thats enough proof for me, and im sure there is more of it.

Not just that, but i feel like i dont need some experts proving me diffs in sound. I would rather hear it for my self and form my own opinion. If you dont hear a difference in the sound, than your right. They make no difference for you. If you do hear a difference than they do make a difference for you.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanMedia Amongst the power cords I have, one is a 18 awg stock parallel untwisted, the other is 14awg twisted. All standard copper cabling from stuff you find at the hardware store. The audible difference between them is night and day, and the bass response is about 6db different between them. Why their construction has any any audible difference whatsoever is a mystery to me, but they can be demonstrated in seconds.

I am sorry, but if some component has what sound slike a 6 dB difference in bass due to power cord swapping, it must be the most unstable piece of audio equipment on the whole planet. Otherwise, the 18 AWG power cord may be physically broken (loose connection and what not).

I don't deny that power cords might make a difference; otherwise I would not even bother researching into hospital grade cords. But it seems to me the magnitude of difference you just described can not be attibuted to the mere physical differences of power cords, but only to the powerful psychological effects of audio tweaking.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Also, "hospital grade" looks really good in audio magazine advertising copy, and sells more power cords at higher prices.

Many audiophile power cords use some hospital grade parts, such as the plug, but the final product is by no means "hospital grade." It is basically not economical for audiophile power cords to get any kind of UL certification, including the basic fire safety--not to mention for "hospital grade." In some countries it is even illegal to use such uncertified power cords in the house... Ha Ha ...

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfboardz26 hey sovkill, a detachable IEC power cord can affect a system’s performance. Your components can’t deliver the best possible sound and picture when AC power is transferred by an inferior cord. Ordinary power cords can experience current loss and are vulnerable to radio frequency and electromagnetic interference. An owner of ps audio showed me a graph of some differences in some powecables. Thats enough proof for me, and im sure there is more of it. Not just that, but i feel like i don't need some experts proving me diffs in sound. I would rather hear it for my self and form my own opinion. If you don't hear a difference in the sound, than your right. They make no difference for you. If you do hear a difference than they do make a difference for you.

We agree in the second part, but just please don't say that one thing has "being scientifically proved", while it is not, one thing is that you say, or 100 people say that, and believe that, or 100 people believe, and another, is that has being "scientifically proved". This has never being proved, otherwise we would not be having this discussion right now...Nobody discuss about Pythagoras right???

Again there is a difference between an improper cable and a proper one, we are not talking of ordinary crappy 21 or 18AWG computer power cords (while in the majority of the cases is more than enough, for the demands they will serve) but let's say a $15.00 cord, as the Volex, Quail, etc, shielded and foiled, and with 14AWG at least, will be more than enough to accomplish any task in audio, with no problems....No need of going insane in prices at all.....

OTOH PS audio sells power cords, and power conditioners, what you want them to tell you? That they make no difference, please gimme something more credible OK???