Power Cords Is this Some BS or Do They really affect CD Sound?
May 8, 2006 at 12:08 AM Post #61 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller
FYI skin effect is only noticeable at extremelly high frequencies, and outside of the audible range FWIW...
rolleyes.gif



For audio yes, but I was talking about skin effect in general.
 
May 8, 2006 at 12:45 AM Post #62 of 121
For 6 years I shook my head at power cord sillyness. None of the physics I knew could explain a difference and on a whim I even tried swapping a few stock cords to see if there was any difference. None. At the time I had a Krell integrated which had very harsh high frequencies, and in an attempt to 'equalise' them I borrowed a different interconnect or speaker cable from the local store, every week for months.

Some made no difference while others made a noticeable difference but there was no correlation to price, but none removed the congestion and harsh treble of the Krell. I even tried three different sets of speakers. After deciding to replace the Krell I thought I should optimise the rest of the system and update it. After reading again about power cords I borrowed some to try. In one session I tried the CDP with a digital cord (foil shielded disconnected from equipment end), a high gauge cord for the amp, and what the hell I'll replace my wall outlets with a more robust inexpensive 15A socket so I could have two outlets, and I tossed aside my cheap surge supressor power board I was using.

With no other changes apart from these, the audible difference was greater than any non component upgrade I have heard in 25 years! in fact the difference was bigger than many different speakers or amplifiers upgrades. All of the congestion was gone and the treble was very sweet. It made me realise the Krell was a fantastic amp, after years of owning it.

I was an instant convert and dont pretend to know why it made such a difference but it did. There are a few suggestions as to why.

*Standard 18awg cord is really only rated for 2.3A and even at that it attenuates current - the cable from the power station comes in on 11awg cable, try and keep at least that gauge through to your components, especially to amplifiers.

*Ideally the cable should be twisted to reject EMI

*Every connection, especially cheap, loose domestic plugs degrades the signal. Connections chatter and create RFI - firm tight connections are best , and try to minimise the number of connections (switches, plugs/sockets)

*Your TV, CD player, wireless network connections, computers all generate RFI (which affects the way DACs decode) and create a 'digital' harshness in the treble. Your household is a potential RFI swamp and the 2m powercords are like aerials pumping this RFI into the power supplies of the components. This mainly affects digital sources like CD Players, DACs and receivers. Now with Class D amps these are also affected by RFI. The solution is that for these is to use shielded power cables with the shield 'lifted' (disconnected) at the component end. Wiring two high voltage capacitors across the live and neutral also helps filter out this high frequency garbage.

*Avoid cheap surge suppressors on amplifiers. A surge suppressor was killing my Krell performance. Unless the surge suppressor / power filter does not limit current (rare) then avoid using on amplifiers and reserve it for the front end components.


As with many people my high-level understanding of electricity gave me preconcieved ideas, and my initial experimentation with similar stock cords yielded no discernable results. But one of the axioms of science is that theories, laws and rules are made to explain the observable phenomena, not the other way around. Just in the same way that Quantum Physics explains many observable phenomena that Newtonian Physics cant. Just the same way that our observations of the way gravity interacts with matter over long distances (the Voyager probes) is indicating that Newtons laws are not quite right and are giving rise to Modified Newtownian Physics. Im sure that all of the scientific understanding is already there to explain the audible differences in power, but there is no real monetary reason to pour large amounts of R&D money into this area.

Keep an open mind. But also stay rational, spend money on components first, but dont ignore power, and simple low cost things (beefier wall plates, fewer connections/switches, shielded power on front end, high gauge cables on amps) can make a surprising difference.

As others have said, start with the Volex 17604 Cords for about $12, they are both foil shielded and higher gauge (14awg), you may not ever need anything better. Now that I am tweaking further I am slowly replacing these with more customised DIY cords.
 
May 8, 2006 at 1:52 AM Post #63 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanMedia
After reading again about power cords I borrowed some to try. In one session I tried the CDP with a digital cord (foil shielded disconnected from equipment end), a high gauge cord for the amp, and what the hell I'll replace my wall outlets with a more robust inexpensive 15A socket so I could have two outlets, and I tossed aside my cheap surge supressor power board I was using.

With no other changes apart from these, the audible difference was greater than any non component upgrade I have heard in 25 years!



How do you know it wasn't just the elimination of the surge suppressor that resulted in the changes? I may have read your post wrong, but it looks as though you changed several things at once, then decided the new power cord made a difference. I don't get the logic (?).
 
May 8, 2006 at 2:10 AM Post #64 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch
How do you know it wasn't just the elimination of the surge suppressor that resulted in the changes? I may have read your post wrong, but it looks as though you changed several things at once, then decided the new power cord made a difference. I don't get the logic (?).


LOL...I was thinking about the same, who knows, it could be due to a bad outlet, a bad contact in one of the outlets, or a corroded contact due to the age, or a bad mechanical connection between the cable and outlet, or between the inlets and outlets, or due to the elimination of the surge suppressor....a bad AC power, or restricted current could have impact on the sound for sure...


Quote:

Originally Posted by JahJahBinks
For audio yes, but I was talking about skin effect in general.


I know that he is right about that, and that this effect is real measurable and exists, but this effect has no impact at all for the applications we are discussing here, nor in a recording studio, nor in power cords that will wort at 60-50Hz...
 
May 8, 2006 at 3:57 AM Post #65 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch
How do you know it wasn't just the elimination of the surge suppressor that resulted in the changes? I may have read your post wrong, but it looks as though you changed several things at once, then decided the new power cord made a difference. I don't get the logic (?).


I decided that power makes a difference. And the cumulative effect of paying attention to all aspects made a considerable difference. I had actually swapped just the power board previously but didnt notice a major difference. And thats definitely my recommendation - dont just get a single new power cord, look at all of your power, and pay attention to cheap fixes to purely physical connections.

And also consider power conditioning, but look at a cheaper balancing tranformers first before overpriced name brand 'audiophile' boxes. But thats another discussion.

All of the above was just attained by cheaply replacing and simplifying connections from the wall to the equipment. (Volex cords, Eichmann power strips, a new wall socket with heavy copper internals)
 
May 8, 2006 at 4:14 AM Post #67 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox
He's an electrical engineer as far as his schooling goes... just been working in the business for a while. Just to confirm as well, he is not selling his clients expensive exotic cables or anything... just good stranded copper wire with appropriate gauge for the application.


Ahhh why didn't you say so, I thought you meant one of thoes on the job trained people who learn by example of other and unfortunately quite often equally incomitent people. Looks like we can be friends afterall
580smile.gif


Quote:

Originally Posted by gevorg
What are balancing transformers?


They convert a standard Hot 110VAC and Neutral reference to 2 Hot 55VAC out of phase lines. BE CAREFULL these can NOT be used on all equipment. Something can go very wrong if the case isn't grounded and if the main power switch doesn't switch both lines on the mains.
 
May 8, 2006 at 4:39 AM Post #68 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz

They convert a standard Hot 110VAC and Neutral reference to 2 Hot 55VAC out of phase lines. BE CAREFULL these can NOT be used on all equipment. Something can go very wrong if the case isn't grounded and if the main power switch doesn't switch both lines on the mains.




Yes but any decent balancing transformer will recombine the 2 out of phase signals to standard line voltage with two secondary transformers, cancelling out much background noise in the process in the order of 10-40 db and balancing any DC differential between hot and neutral. And of course the case should be grounded and have an electrostatic shield on the transformer, and have hot lead fused on input and have a capacitor bridge on the inputs (after the fuse) and outputs and be in a proper farraday cage/casing.

Im assuming people will buy a complete unit made for this purpose which will include all of the above, not individual transformers. And make sure you get one rated at twice your maximum anticipated power draw, and apart from power amps with a massive power requirements it should be fine on all audio and video equipment. (I know of a few post production houses with everything on a few hefty balancing transformers)
 
May 8, 2006 at 5:47 AM Post #69 of 121
I dont buy into the idea of cables making a huge difference...particularly power cable...Go home depot...get some 8AWG cable, wrap them with some nice techflex...maybe give them two layers...and pick up a nice looking connector...viola....you've just made yourself a power cable worth a tleast a couple hundred bucks
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May 8, 2006 at 6:19 AM Post #70 of 121
I recently did some research into "actual" hospital grade power cords, the ones used in hospital: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=173325
I eventually bought the finest hospital grade power cord I could find on the market (Volex 16 AWG, low-leakage).
They did not make my component sound better.
I would still recommend 14 AWG, shielded power cord from Volex (a branch of Belden). You can easily find it for around $10 on Mouser.com
 
May 8, 2006 at 6:56 AM Post #71 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose
I recently did some research into "actual" hospital grade power cords, the ones used in hospital: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=173325
I eventually bought the finest hospital grade power cord I could find on the market (Volex 16 AWG, low-leakage).
They did not make my component sound better.
I would still recommend 14 AWG, shielded power cord from Volex (a branch of Belden). You can easily find it for around $10 on Mouser.com




Why 'hospital grade' power cords?

The only reason for hospital grade cords and connectors is that they dont contain any ferrous components like screws that will go crazy near MRI machines. Hospital grade doesnt mean a higher quality of electrical attributes.
 
May 8, 2006 at 7:24 AM Post #72 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanMedia
Why 'hospital grade' power cords?

The only reason for hospital grade cords and connectors is that they dont contain any ferrous components like screws that will go crazy near MRI machines. Hospital grade doesnt mean a higher quality of electrical attributes.



Hospital grade power cords ensure optimal electrical contact.
It is mainly a safety concern, because you don't want power cords to pull off easily or cause short-circuits around medical equipment.
Therefore the material and assembly qualities of hospital grade power cords are high and they need to go through independent testing for safety specs.
For audio purposes, hospital grade power cords can ensure optimal electrical contacts, and bad contacts can be significant sources of resistance and distortion.
 
May 8, 2006 at 7:46 AM Post #73 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose
Hospital grade power cords ensure optimal electrical contact.
It is mainly a safety concern, because you don't want power cords to pull off easily or cause short-circuits around medical equipment.
Therefore the material and assembly qualities of hospital grade power cords are high and they need to go through independent testing for safety specs.
For audio purposes, hospital grade power cords can ensure optimal electrical contacts, and bad contacts can be significant sources of resistance and distortion.



but they still lack the uber secure contact....this has been proven in Final Destination 2 and had caused the death of at least 2 people
tongue.gif
 
May 8, 2006 at 8:05 AM Post #74 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose
Hospital grade power cords ensure optimal electrical contact.
It is mainly a safety concern, because you don't want power cords to pull off easily or cause short-circuits around medical equipment.
Therefore the material and assembly qualities of hospital grade power cords are high and they need to go through independent testing for safety specs.
For audio purposes, hospital grade power cords can ensure optimal electrical contacts, and bad contacts can be significant sources of resistance and distortion.



Thanks for the info, Ferbose!

And the critical Final Destination input kin0kin :)
 

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