Power Cables... Really?

[kboe]

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The problem is that we all have heard those same words time after time, and trust me that is very hard to convince people with anecdotical evidence, I do not want to sound harsh, and sorry do not take me wrong, but those are the same exact words all we have heard along these years, the same that dealers use, the same that reviewers use...I could literally find this same exact phrase in reviews, literature from magazines, dealers pages, etc...

Do you think thats maybe because its a true effect felt and heard by many people?  If you gave saltine crackers to 500 people, I bet you 99.9 percent of them would tell you its salty.  Not because the box tells them it is, or because the commercials say "the perfect slaty snack" but because they actually ate it and think it taste salty.  
 
Its okay that you don't believe me.  Just don't tell me what I can and cant hear, because I don't feel the need to convert you to my side of the fence.  My comments are for people on my side, or people thinking if a power cable is a wise choice for them.  And perhaps for people on your side to make sense of us loonies.  I just don't like to be accused of lying.

 

[kboe]

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and electrons.

That too! Te-hehe!

 

[aimlink]

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That too! Te-hehe!

What's the Cardas power cord connected to on your system?  Your HP amp?
 

 

[kboe]

My MiniMax CD Player.  The amp runs off batteries.  

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Do you think thats maybe because its a true effect felt and heard by many people?  If you gave saltine crackers to 500 people, I bet you 99.9 percent of them would tell you its salty.  Not because the box tells them it is, or because the commercials say "the perfect slaty snack" but because they actually ate it and think it taste salty.  

Give crackers to 500 blindfolded people. They'll still tell you it's salty. The same isn't true for power cables.

 

[Currawong]

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Then why not buy a good power conditioner instead? That's actually proven to do some of the things power cables are claimed to do. Not necessarily sonically, but electrically.

My second one is arriving today.  Indeed, I'd rather something that has known abilities than something which is somewhat dubious, even if I have had interesting results.  It's an interesting topic, if people are willing to stop the "my truth is the only truth" stuff.
 
Like others, I've annoyingly found that power cables seem to subtly affect the overall tonal balance of various pieces of gear to varying degrees, sometimes in a good way, sometimes bad.  This is annoying, as there is no solid science that says how this works.  I am going to experiment with plugs made from different metals, for my own curiosity.  What would be great is if, instead of just tub-thumping one's science religion in front of the computer, someone actually took the approach that, people believe they are hearing differences, so lets find out what, if anything, changes when power cords or parts of them are changed around.  I think, however, it would require someone with very deep pockets who could build an isolated building to do testing in, so that interference, among other things, could be introduced in measurable ways.

 

[kboe]

Honestly I feel it comes down to two type of people.  
 
First there are those that seek emotional enjoyment, involvement, or people who literally see music like a drug, something to be taken daily and often.
 
Then there are those who want to see the specs, shown the graph, or see the peer reviewed article talking about whatever or see the results from the double-blind test.
 
I belong in the first group.  I didn't get into this hobby to understand what people in a test think, or what the electrical engineer "knows" is possible or not.   I want to listen to music, not frequency sweeps.  I want to feel emotional connectedness, not double-blind test proven results.  And truthfully this type of discussion helps nobody, as it only shows that the two groups exist.  Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Honestly I feel it comes down to two type of people.  
 
First there are those that seek emotional enjoyment, involvement, or people who literally see music like a drug, something to be taken daily and often.
 
Then there are those who want to see the specs, shown the graph, or see the peer reviewed article talking about whatever or see the results from the double-blind test.
 
I belong in the first group.  I didn't get into this hobby to understand what people in a test think, or what the electrical engineer "knows" is possible or not.   I want to listen to music, not frequency sweeps.  I want to feel emotional connectedness, not double-blind test proven results.  And truthfully this type of discussion helps nobody, as it only shows that the two groups exist.  Nothing more, nothing less.

But you only feel that emotion when you know you're using a certain cable. When it's really all there to begin with, cable or not. I wouldn't want to be tethered to a certain cable when I know I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and any other if they were covered up.
 
It helps people. Of course it does. If it weren't for the people with their graphs and DBTs, everyone on this forum would be convinced cables do something tangible, and they'd all be wasting there money. We're saving new skeptics the cost of cable, and not affecting their musical enjoyment in the least.
 
I enjoy music fine without expensive cables. If you feel like you can't, maybe you're as much a cablephile as you are an audiophile, and gain as much enjoyment from purchasing audibly meaningless strands of metal as you get from the music itself. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not the goal I think you're aiming for. Or economically sound.
 
Don't think for a second that those with the graphs and DBTs can't enjoy their music. They can, they just don't have to spend as much to do so.

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

Honestly I feel it comes down to two type of people.  
 
First there are those that seek emotional enjoyment, involvement, or people who literally see music like a drug, something to be taken daily and often.
 
Then there are those who want to see the specs, shown the graph, or see the peer reviewed article talking about whatever or see the results from the double-blind test.
 
I belong in the first group.  I didn't get into this hobby to understand what people in a test think, or what the electrical engineer "knows" is possible or not.   I want to listen to music, not frequency sweeps.  I want to feel emotional connectedness, not double-blind test proven results.  And truthfully this type of discussion helps nobody, as it only shows that the two groups exist.  Nothing more, nothing less.

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But you only feel that emotion when you know you're using a certain cable. When it's really all there to begin with, cable or not. I wouldn't want to be tethered to a certain cable when I know I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and any other if they were covered up.
 
It helps people. Of course it does. If it weren't for the people with their graphs and DBTs, everyone on this forum would be convinced cables do something tangible, and they'd all be wasting there money. We're saving new skeptics the cost of cable, and not affecting their musical enjoyment in the least.
 
I enjoy music fine without expensive cables. If you feel like you can't, maybe you're as much a cablephile as you are an audiophile, and gain as much enjoyment from purchasing audibly meaningless strands of metal as you get from the music itself. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not the goal I think you're aiming for. Or economically sound.
 
Don't think for a second that those with the graphs and DBTs can't enjoy their music. They can, they just don't have to spend as much to do so.

 
Head Injury hit it on the head (pun intended).
 
If I told you you could get the EXACT same sonic performance for hundreds less, would you do it?   I dont know why the cable guys are so adverse against DBTs.  I have not herd one non-metaphysical argument about doing it.  Is it fear?  What is it?  Just DBT your stuff several times and determine for yourself if you really hear a difference.

 

[kboe]

I really don't know why we keep going back and forth.  I hear what I hear.  You hear what you hear.  If your method and understanding gets you to heightened musical experience, than thats the method you should go with.  If I find a different one, then I'll stick with it.  I enjoy the tar out of my music with less expensive gear, with sources that have higher jitter, and with cables that cost less, but I get a richer experiences with better gear, (and sometimes that means more money).
 
 If there were one answer, one headphone, one cable that bested them all and cost $30.00 and could be bought at radio shack, I'd be all over it.  Why wouldn't I want to save money.  I haven't heard that cable yet.  So when a manufacturer produces a better sounding cable, and I can afford it, then why shouldn't I buy it.  With opinions like yours, (the doubter in general) I simply don't understand why your here in the first place.  You would find minds better matched with yours in a science forum, not a music lovers forum.
 
 This realm of "high end" is populated with people willing to spend whatever it takes to get the sound they want.  When you think about it none of this makes sense in any way.  If I could listen to my music through a mp3 player and $5.00 earbuds, why spend more to do the same thing? I love to share my experiences with others, but when I'm told I cant trust my ears, we have nothing more to discuss, nothing to debate about.  When one side is absolute, there is no debate.  So at the urging of my more sane minded roommate who keeps asking why I keep sighing, this will be my last post about this topic.  I have better things to do, like listening to music, you can read the results of the latest double-blind test without me.  
 
Happy tunes.

 

[Uncle Erik]

kboe, the point that you seem to be missing is that you won't hear the difference if you don't know which cable you're listening to. This has been demonstrated repeatedly in tests. No one can hear a difference if they don't know what they're listening to.

Applying Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is that the difference you hear is all in your head.

That no electrical differences turn up - despite the quality of test gear and methodology - adds further evidence that the differences are all in your head.

The nail in the coffin for me is the fly-by-night types of businesses that manufacture cables and the breathtaking difference between the actual cost of materials plus overhead and what they sell for. Even if there was a difference, you're still getting scammed considering the prices.

 

[El_Doug]

How dare you suggest that those who demand proof from a snake oil salesman somehow do not have an appreciation for music? 
 
this post destroyed all of your credibility.  by implying such a dichotomy, you demonstrate that you have absolutely no understanding of the debate at large
 
Quote:

Honestly I feel it comes down to two type of people.  
 
First there are those that seek emotional enjoyment, involvement, or people who literally see music like a drug, something to be taken daily and often.
 
Then there are those who want to see the specs, shown the graph, or see the peer reviewed article talking about whatever or see the results from the double-blind test.

 

[Sovkiller]

 
Quote:

Do you think thats maybe because its a true effect felt and heard by many people?  If you gave saltine crackers to 500 people, I bet you 99.9 percent of them would tell you its salty.  Not because the box tells them it is, or because the commercials say "the perfect slaty snack" but because they actually ate it and think it taste salty.  
 
Its okay that you don't believe me.  Just don't tell me what I can and cant hear, because I don't feel the need to convert you to my side of the fence.  My comments are for people on my side, or people thinking if a power cable is a wise choice for them.  And perhaps for people on your side to make sense of us loonies.  I just don't like to be accused of lying.

 
No I do not think so, not all of them will hear "that veil that was removed" (I think that even me have used that terms in the past as well...)...but as a side note there is no such a rate as 99 out of 100 who hear these differences, indeed if far from that, and more close to the other way around, 99 out of 100 say they do not...but that is not enough for "a few golden ears"....

 
BTW If anything I could be accused with my post, was to say that you were repetitive, of what others had said, I never implied in any way that you were lying, just that I prefer a more original comment, instead of repeating exactly what others had said time after time, that BTW had not proved a thing over all these years...Again I never call you a liar as simply I do beleive you beleive you hear those differences...But if you implied that from my post, now that makes me think, that maybe something is not very clear here...

 

[beeman458]

The same isn't true for power cables.
 
And the rub to the whole thesis of the anti-cable gang...... Just because some dude can reliably only hear a difference ten percent of the time, don't mean he's not hearing a difference like the anti-cable crowd says.
 
Might convenient wouldn't you say?
 
"I'm sorry, you can reliably hear a difference only ten percent of the time, so I'm here to state for the record, you ain't hearing pootie.  Why?  Because I say so, that's why."
 
And nobody on the anti-cable side of the aisle sees this as self-serving to say what a person is or isn't hearing?
 
Wow!

 

[beeman458]

I dont know why the cable guys are so adverse against DBTs.
 
Smart people realize that DBT prove absolutely nothing other than the test giver arbitrarily discounts anything they haven't heard themselves.
 
How can anybody, with a straight face, declare that something can't be heard by another.
 
"I'm sorry, you didn't hear what you just heard because if you don't hear it often enough to suit my statistical purposes, I'm here to tell you, that you didn't hear what you heard."
 
Or.......
 
"I'm sorry, you didn't reliably hear it often enough to count, so I'm going personally declare you didn't hear what you say you heard because I know better."
 
Even the medical field gets a better pass than fifty percent.
 
"This drug may work only ten percent of the time but using this drug enhances your survival rate from zero percent to ten percent."
 
I'd like to see one of these anti-cable testers turn this treatment down because it doesn't serve their seventy or eighty percent rule.  You really do need to look past the BS of these test givers and once you're on to their BS, it's wisdom, not aversion that stops one from being foolish enough to take a meaningless test designed to ensure fail.
 
There's no debate here.  Why?  The dice are loaded in the favor of the house.  Who wants to play in this casino?