[wap32]

Quote:

What a shameless copy... For a measly 10 bucks you can buy the Mini³ PCB, the ferrite beads and battery contacts. Why rip off AMB's design? Just because you can? Punk!

 
That's quite an aggressive stance.
 
I have the utmost respect for AMB's work and his contribution to the DIY community, but I don't think modifying a pcb layout for personal use can be called a rip-off. He's not making money of it and he's not hurting anyone.
 
If AMB's layout doesn't meet his requirements (say for example he wants to use different sized component), why shouldn't he modify it? As long as credit is given to AMB, I don't see what's so wrong about it.
I thought that was what DIY was about, if there's nothing that suits my needs or is too expensive, I'll just make it myself.
 
I'm sure AMB's layout is well thought and the pcb's are great quality, and they're probably the best option for 99% of builders, but why shouldn't I make my own if I want to add/change/remove something?

 

[Beftus]

I have gut feeling we'll see these PCB's on eBay soon. I hope I'm wrong though. Nems, perhaps you would like to chime in? Please do.

 

[wap32]

Quote:

I have gut feeling we'll see these PCB's on eBay soon. I hope I'm wrong though. Nems, perhaps you would like to chime in? Please do.

I was under the impression nems made the pcb for personal use only, and that is why I wrote that post, I hope I'm not wrong.

 

[MASantos]

  Because he probably doesn't have permission from AMB to do so.
 
AMB clearly states in his website that people are not allowed to do so without his prior permission. And normally he only does allow for his designs to be integrated into something else, like the carrie USB powered amp, or using the e12 in other amplifier designs.
 
Doing what this guy did is violation of copyrighted material, and above that an outright disrespect for the creator, who by selling these pcb's and specialty parts supports his designs and their future further development. He is hurting Ti's intellectual property. 
 
And mostly because most members here don't like people ripping off other person's designs and hard work!!
 
So this subject requires an aggressive stance and if these eventually end on ebay, this guy should be reported.
Quote:

 
That's quite an aggressive stance.
 
I have the utmost respect for AMB's work and his contribution to the DIY community, but I don't think modifying a pcb layout for personal use can be called a rip-off. He's not making money of it and he's not hurting anyone.
 
If AMB's layout doesn't meet his requirements (say for example he wants to use different sized component), why shouldn't he modify it? As long as credit is given to AMB, I don't see what's so wrong about it.
I thought that was what DIY was about, if there's nothing that suits my needs or is too expensive, I'll just make it myself.
 
I'm sure AMB's layout is well thought and the pcb's are great quality, and they're probably the best option for 99% of builders, but why shouldn't I make my own if I want to add/change/remove something?

Quote:

I have gut feeling we'll see these PCB's on eBay soon. I hope I'm wrong though. Nems, perhaps you would like to chime in? Please do.

Even using another persons design for personal use is a violation of intellectual property and against the law. One can't just copy another person's work and call it for personal use!
Quote:

I was under the impression nems made the pcb for personal use only, and that is why I wrote that post, I hope I'm not wrong.

 

[Lil' Knight]

Quote:

Do you have AMB's permission to use his design? 
 

 

I doubt. So funny that the PCB mentioned Mini3 but 'somehow' forgot AMB. As mentioned above, it's shamelessly show-off.

 

[Juaquin]

Quote:

Even using another persons design for personal use is a violation of intellectual property and against the law. One can't just copy another person's work and call it for personal use!

The DIY Forum rules read: "the practice of "cloning" a viable presently for retail sale commercial product is OK if it is for personal use ONLY and we invite photographs of your handiwork ."
 
You can read it here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/59279/diy-forum-rules
 
Of course, it would have been NICE for him to consult with AMB before showing pictures or talking about it publicly. But as far as copyright infringment (or IP) it's legal as long as it's not for sale. I can clone a Shelby Mustang in my garage as long as I don't sell it.
 
As others have said, I hope that this is for personal use only and they do not end up for sale, as I respect Ti's work very much.

 

[tranhieu]

 
Quote:

 But as far as copyright infringment (or IP) it's legal as long as it's not for sale. I can clone a Shelby Mustang in my garage as long as I don't sell it.
 
As others have said, I hope that this is for personal use only and they do not end up for sale, as I respect Ti's work very much.

Well, I've just done a quick search and found his ad here, which is pretty new, updated just 3 days ago: http://vozforums.com/showthread.php?t=914344
 
It's really a shame since he's regarded as one of the most enthusiastic diyer in my city
 

 

[amb]

That was without permission.  If someone really clones my design, there's not much I could do except to say "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", and urge people to get the real thing.  I would also prefer the "clones" to call themselves something else.  I don't like to have inferior products taking a free ride on my reputation.
 
http://www.amb.org/forum/mini3-portable-headphone-amplifier-f16/shameless-mini3-copies-t206.html

 

[wap32]

 
Quote:

 
Well, I've just done a quick search and found his ad here, which is pretty new, updated just 3 days ago: http://vozforums.com/showthread.php?t=914344
 
It's really a shame since he's regarded as one of the most enthusiastic diyer in my city
 

I guess the guy was really ripping off the design for profit, that's not cool.

 
Quote:

That was without permission.  If someone really clones my design, there's not much I could do except to say "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", and urge people to get the real thing.  I would also prefer the "clones" to call themselves something else.  I don't like to have inferior products taking a free ride on my reputation.
 
http://www.amb.org/forum/mini3-portable-headphone-amplifier-f16/shameless-mini3-copies-t206.html

I just wanted to ask, what do you define as a clone?
 
If I wanted to build a mini^3 for myself with a custom pcb, would that be considered fair use of your work?
Or should one seek permission first?
 
I ask because it has crossed my mind to build for example, a full smd mini^3, maybe with a li-on or even a dac, and I certainly don't want to be hurting anyone's property.

 

[Juaquin]

Quote:

Well, I've just done a quick search and found his ad here, which is pretty new, updated just 3 days ago: http://vozforums.com/showthread.php?t=914344
 
It's really a shame since he's regarded as one of the most enthusiastic diyer in my city
 

Yes, it does seem like these are for sale. Sad.
 

 

[Mr.Duck]

So what's the bit that's been ripped off? Just the "mini3" name? The layout hasn't been stolen from AMB has it? I'm sure he doesn't openly release those eagle files...
 
I thought this was an clone/imitation, not a copy. Like if you wrote your own song but copied the lyrics from another band, compared to a bootleg CD. I'm sure he copied the schematic too. But isn't the schematic public domain information? I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.

 

[tranhieu]

From what I understand, the reason that the schematic and layout are available for everyone is for the sake of the diy community, not for doing business. This guy used the name mini3, which has been registered by AMB (unwrittenly?) without asking for permissions first, plust he didnt mention anything about AMB or Ti on his board, and last but not least, he's selling the kit or the fully assembled unit!

 

[johnwmclean]

I think this has gone far enough, hopefully Nate will delete the offending posts, as it's clearly not in the true spirit of this forum.

 

[amb]

Quote:

I just wanted to ask, what do you define as a clone?

If the result is close enough a resemblance to the original, I would consider it a clone.  I think the one from nems is without a doubt, a "clone".  Aside from changing to DIP opamps the rest are just about the same (nevermind that such a change clearly shows a lack of understanding of the design).
 
Quote:

If I wanted to build a mini^3 for myself with a custom pcb, would that be considered fair use of your work?
Or should one seek permission first?
 
I ask because it has crossed my mind to build for example, a full smd mini^3, maybe with a li-on or even a dac, and I certainly don't want to be hurting anyone's property.

Then you have nothing to worry about.  I don't mind anyone making clones for their own personal use.  When someone (either for lack of ability or originality) makes clones not only to make a business from it, but also tries to ride on my reputation without my permission, then I do have a problem with it.  I post my designs in an open manner for the benefit of DIYers, not for scammers who do not respect intellectual property.

 

[Mr.Duck]

Ok, so just in case nems is still following this, he should remove all reference to AMB's design such as "MINI3" and I thought I saw a "www.amb.org/audio/" on there that should also go. Come up with a new name for it. Give some sort of credit to AMB for the original work that he used? While the schematic and layout is obviously a shameless clone, not sure there's anything wrong or can be done about that. We all copy each other all the time. Especially in the commercial world.