Portable Sabaj Amp/DACs
Apr 22, 2018 at 2:57 PM Post #31 of 86
Ok, so both the da3 and the IQ have two separate dacs. But am I going to notice a difference in SE MODE. Or only in the BALANCED MODE?

Btw: Rockstar, can you run your P7 in balanced mode?
It's processing each channel in two different paths up to the jack socket no matter what, but instead of processing a balanced signal, which means creating a hot signal (+) and a cold signal (-) in each path, it'll create a single signal in each path. So yeah, it's useful even in SE mode because it's separating the channels in different paths entirely up to the jack socket. Even though balanced is probably even better, but I didn't try it :slight_smile:
 
Apr 22, 2018 at 3:01 PM Post #32 of 86
It's processing each channel in two different paths up to the jack socket no matter what, but instead of processing a balanced signal, which means creating a hot signal (+) and a cold signal (-) in each path, it'll create a single signal in each path. So yeah, it's useful even in SE mode because it's separating the channels in different paths entirely up to the jack socket. Even though balanced is probably even better, but I didn't try it :slight_smile:

Thanks Chein.

And for someone like me who presently DOESN'T have the option of using a balanced cable, it's even more important for me to have at least a Dual DAC setup in order to gain a more hiss-free and higher quality sound quality output.
 
Apr 23, 2018 at 10:13 AM Post #33 of 86
I have no idea. Well it would be pointless having a built-in battery if it's for drawing power from the phone instead, so I doubt it's the case :thinking:

Just pointing out alternatives, it's always hard to choose the right one :blush:
There is also the Hidizs DH1000 which got kickstarted that will provide 2 separate channels, but instead of using 2* Q2C it'll use 2* K2M (DAC) + 2* ES9601K (AMP). It's way more expensive though :smile: /QUOTE]


Chein,

I just took another look at the DH1000 link and I realized I didn't scroll down. Thought $75k was the price, but it's actually only $229! Oops!!!

Yeah man, looks awesome, and love that it's BOTH Dual DAC AND Dual amp too! It seems a bit bulky, and yeah the higher price vs. the IQ, but might be worth it! :L3000:
 
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Apr 23, 2018 at 10:18 AM Post #34 of 86
It's processing each channel in two different paths up to the jack socket no matter what, but instead of processing a balanced signal, which means creating a hot signal (+) and a cold signal (-) in each path, it'll create a single signal in each path. So yeah, it's useful even in SE mode because it's separating the channels in different paths entirely up to the jack socket. Even though balanced is probably even better, but I didn't try it :slight_smile:

But the fact that when it reaches the jack socket it all combines into ONE signal....... I'll STILL hear a difference for sure??
 
Apr 23, 2018 at 10:21 AM Post #35 of 86
I have no idea. Well it would be pointless having a built-in battery if it's for drawing power from the phone instead, so I doubt it's the case :thinking:



Just pointing out alternatives, it's always hard to choose the right one :blush:
There is also the Hidizs DH1000 which got kickstarted that will provide 2 separate channels, but instead of using 2* Q2C it'll use 2* K2M (DAC) + 2* ES9601K (AMP). It's way more expensive though :smile:

My guess would be having 2 separate component paths processing one channel each (like the DA3, IQ, DH1000) provides better channel separation. Since they interfere less with each other the dynamic range should be higher and the crosstalk lower than with a single DAC/AMP. It's surely doable with a single DAC/AMP channel, but the implementation probably needs to be way more elaborated and expensive to compensate. This is just a guess though, I'm far from knowing everything about how audio engineering works in those little boxes.


Chein,

I just took another look at the DH1000 link and I realized I didn't scroll down. Thought $75k was the price, but it's actually only $229! Oops!!! :beyersmile:

Yeah man, looks awesome, and love that it's BOTH Dual DAC AND Dual amp too!

The IQ is single amp, right??

It seems a bit bulky, and yeah the higher price vs. the IQ, but might be worth it! :L3000:
 
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Apr 23, 2018 at 12:09 PM Post #36 of 86
But the fact that when it reaches the jack socket it all combines into ONE signal....... I'll STILL hear a difference for sure??
It doesn't really combine the 2 signals in one, they'll be separated in 2 different wires, but they do share a common ground wire in an unbalanced jack.

Chein,

I just took another look at the DH1000 link and I realized I didn't scroll down. Thought $75k was the price, but it's actually only $229! Oops!!! :beyersmile:

Yeah man, looks awesome, and love that it's BOTH Dual DAC AND Dual amp too!

The IQ is single amp, right??

It seems a bit bulky, and yeah the higher price vs. the IQ, but might be worth it! :L3000:
The IQ just like the DA3 has 2 AMPs, one for each DAC, since it's how the Q2C is designed. Just instead of being separated, they are included in the DAC chip.

Well since the IQ is findable on Aliexpress for $115 the DH1000 is still twice its price so... that's what I mean by "way more expensive" :smile:
 
Apr 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM Post #37 of 86
It doesn't really combine the 2 signals in one, they'll be separated in 2 different wires, but they do share a common ground wire in an unbalanced jack.


The IQ just like the DA3 has 2 AMPs, one for each DAC, since it's how the Q2C is designed. Just instead of being separated, they are included in the DAC chip.

Well since the IQ is findable on Aliexpress for $115 the DH1000 is still twice its price so... that's what I mean by "way more expensive" :smile:

Well I'm asking with regards to an UNBALANCED connection, since I can't do balanced on my P7. lol So how does it work then? So in that case, will I still hear a difference since even though it's Dual DACs it still ends up combining at the end? Not sure.

Ohhh ok. So the DA3 and IQ both DO have 2 amps, but they're integrated/combined into each DAC, where on the DH1000, the amps are both separate from each DAC. Got it!!

Yeah haha........ I just saw $75k which was how much they've raised, not the price. Silly me!! lol $229 is nice, though I dunno...........you think it's really worth the extra $100 just to have separate amps on top of separate DACs too? What do you think??
 
Apr 23, 2018 at 12:52 PM Post #38 of 86
Well I'm asking with regards to an UNBALANCED connection, since I can't do balanced on my P7. lol So how does it work then? So in that case, will I still hear a difference since even though it's Dual DACs it still ends up combining at the end? Not sure.

Ohhh ok. So the DA3 and IQ both DO have 2 amps, but they're integrated/combined into each DAC, where on the DH1000, the amps are both separate from each DAC. Got it!!

Yeah haha........ I just saw $75k which was how much they've raised, not the price. Silly me!! lol $229 is nice, though I dunno...........you think it's really worth the extra $100 just to have separate amps on top of separate DACs too? What do you think??

What I was saying is, an unbalanced jack will always use a common ground wire. But the 2 channels are entirely separated until they reach that common ground wire. It goes => "===" for 2 paths "---" for 1 path
-----"DIGITAL SIGNAL"-----(USB INTERFACE)=====(DACS)====="ANALOG SIGNALS"=====(AMPS)=====(JACK)=====(HEADPHONES)-----(GROUND)
The only "crosstalk" they can get is from the GROUND wire, instead of having the analog crosstalk from the DAC + the AMP + the GROUND. So of course even an unbalanced connection benefits from having 1 path for each channel.

I have no idea if the DH1000 is worth the extra money. Another disadvantage is probably you can't change the battery from the DH1000 if it's defective while you can just unscrew the IQ.
One advantage is maybe the DH1000 has more power to drive more demanding headphones. The DA3/IQ can only handle up to 300Ohms headphones (I've seen positive reviews with the HD600/650), which is enough for most usages I guess.
 
Apr 23, 2018 at 1:26 PM Post #39 of 86
What I was saying is, an unbalanced jack will always use a common ground wire. But the 2 channels are entirely separated until they reach that common ground wire. It goes => "===" for 2 paths "---" for 1 path
-----"DIGITAL SIGNAL"-----(USB INTERFACE)=====(DACS)====="ANALOG SIGNALS"=====(AMPS)=====(JACK)=====(HEADPHONES)-----(GROUND)
The only "crosstalk" they can get is from the GROUND wire, instead of having the analog crosstalk from the DAC + the AMP + the GROUND. So of course even an unbalanced connection benefits from having 1 path for each channel.

I have no idea if the DH1000 is worth the extra money. Another disadvantage is probably you can't change the battery from the DH1000 if it's defective while you can just unscrew the IQ.
One advantage is maybe the DH1000 has more power to drive more demanding headphones. The DA3/IQ can only handle up to 300Ohms headphones (I've seen positive reviews with the HD600/650), which is enough for most usages I guess.

Ahh I C! So with the Dual DAC unbalanced setup the only crosstalk or "noise/hiss/distortion" would be from the cable itself, where in a Single DAC unbalanced setup, you'd have additional crosstalk from the DAC and amp chips too. Got it!!

Excellent explanation!! :L3000::ok_hand:lol

Yeah it seems like it would give you a cleaner sound that way.

Oh the IQ has a replaceable battery? Very cool!!

Yeah not worried about the driving factor at all. My P7s are only 22 ohms and sensitivity is 111 dB/V, so I don't need too much power. I'm sure the IQ can supply more than enough, even for my quieter Hi-Res albums like Fleetwood Mac's '75 "self-titled album" (the first one with Lindsey and Stevie), which is def by far one of my quietest (and best sounding) albums.

Thanks so much Chein!!!!!
 
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Apr 24, 2018 at 11:24 PM Post #40 of 86
It would be nice if someone in here or reading this thread could speak as to their experience of comparing a quality single DAC to a dual or quad DAC, and if they noticed any differences as a result. Or even try doing this and talk about their observations here as well. On paper it sounds like a dual or quad DAC would make a noticeable difference, but I'd like to know if people have ACTUALLY noticed one?
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 11:30 PM Post #41 of 86
What I was saying is, an unbalanced jack will always use a common ground wire. But the 2 channels are entirely separated until they reach that common ground wire. It goes => "===" for 2 paths "---" for 1 path
-----"DIGITAL SIGNAL"-----(USB INTERFACE)=====(DACS)====="ANALOG SIGNALS"=====(AMPS)=====(JACK)=====(HEADPHONES)-----(GROUND)
The only "crosstalk" they can get is from the GROUND wire, instead of having the analog crosstalk from the DAC + the AMP + the GROUND. So of course even an unbalanced connection benefits from having 1 path for each channel.

I have no idea if the DH1000 is worth the extra money. Another disadvantage is probably you can't change the battery from the DH1000 if it's defective while you can just unscrew the IQ.
One advantage is maybe the DH1000 has more power to drive more demanding headphones. The DA3/IQ can only handle up to 300Ohms headphones (I've seen positive reviews with the HD600/650), which is enough for most usages I guess.

Where exactly is the Ground wire Chein? Your diagram seems to indicate its IN the headphones themselves. Please confirm.
 
Oct 15, 2018 at 9:50 PM Post #43 of 86
Hello everyone...as usual not sure if this is currently the most active thread on Sabaj DA3 but if perchance it is, here are my queries.

1} what might be the best (straightforward) EQ app to install (on Windows 10) that will give me the 'extra' bass that I'm a little bit ashamed to admit I miss with my otherwise beautifully performing DAC? I mean of course bass that will yet not sound fake or interfere with quality of rest of FR.

I adore the THUMP factor but also appreciate that what the DA3 does overall is surely superb .

2) If I was to seek an amp/DAC of quality and price point that paralleled the Sabaj yet featured a (gasp) bass gain, what amp/DAC might that be? (The only name i've cottoned to as possibility thus far is a Cayin? )


3) as technical nincompoop I'm finding it difficult to see how I might alter any settings at all with this device. Does one do that via the Xmos drivers I've dutifully installed on Windows?



Thanking you sincerely,
Warbles
 
Oct 15, 2018 at 10:02 PM Post #44 of 86
Hello everyone...as usual not sure if this is currently the most active thread on Sabaj DA3 but if perchance it is, here are my queries.

1} what might be the best (straightforward) EQ app to install (on Windows 10) that will give me the 'extra' bass that I'm a little bit ashamed to admit I miss with my otherwise beautifully performing DAC? I mean of course bass that will yet not sound fake or interfere with quality of rest of FR.

I adore the THUMP factor but also appreciate that what the DA3 does overall is surely superb .

2) If I was to seek an amp/DAC of quality and price point that paralleled the Sabaj yet featured a (gasp) bass gain, what amp/DAC might that be? (The only name i've cottoned to as possibility thus far is a Cayin? )


3) as technical nincompoop I'm finding it difficult to see how I might alter any settings at all with this device. Does one do that via the Xmos drivers I've dutifully installed on Windows?



Thanking you sincerely,
Warbles

I can't comment on the Sabaj-specific questions, but for system EQ, Equalizer APO is popular and free. If all you need is bass boost, it should be pretty easy to set up, but if you need to toggle multiple presets, you might also want to download the Peace GUI to go with it.

For affordable amp/dac options with hardware bass boost, maybe also look at Fiio's lineup. And maybe also Topping's portables.?
 
Oct 15, 2018 at 10:27 PM Post #45 of 86
I can't comment on the Sabaj-specific questions, but for system EQ, Equalizer APO is popular and free. If all you need is bass boost, it should be pretty easy to set up, but if you need to toggle multiple presets, you might also want to download the Peace GUI to go with it.

For affordable amp/dac options with hardware bass boost, maybe also look at Fiio's lineup. And maybe also Topping's portables.?

Thanks so much for this response ! But can you explain a tad what this Peace GUI you mention is all about ? Doesn't signify for me as yet, heh....


I have the entry level Topping (NX1s), but having now heard the Sabaj at work, am aware of its limitations. I'm wondering how much further - NX2, NX4? - up the Topping ladder I have to go before I get Sabaj levels of performance plus those special bass powers! I don't want much, do I!

Will get to.work on the APO asap, and thanyou again for your suggestions..
 

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