[Graphicism]

Quote:

I'm seriously beginning to doubt some of the "opinions" on these boards (though some a very good) .There are just so many conflicting opinions .anybody would think we live on a planet with many people living unbalanced lifestyles thus "opinions".
 
You say the HD 25's are a "decent all rounder" that  have   "completely flat and Lifeless" musical separation / sound-stage and then go on to say you only use IEM's with portables .
 
If you hear the HD 25's separation as  "lifeless" how do you hear your IEM's  ??? 

 

Oh shock horror... I said something negative about a pair of headphones and now a fan boy questions his place in the universe.
 
Like it or not the HD 25s have a tiny soundstage, I'll also add they become quite boring after a while. If you don't like peoples opinions ib1dance then you don't belong on a forum because that's all people have to offer. You might think they're the be-all and end-all in headphones, that's perfectly fine and that's your opinion.
 
I suggested a couple pairs of IEMs that I think do really well directly from an MP3 player, don't see anything wrong with that either?

 

[ib1dance]

 
Quote:

 

Oh shock horror... I said something negative about a pair of headphones and now a fan boy questions his place in the universe.
 
Like it or not the HD 25s have a tiny soundstage, I'll also add they become quite boring after a while. If you don't like peoples opinions ib1dance then you don't belong on a forum because that's all people have to offer. You might think they're the be-all and end-all in headphones, that's perfectly fine and that's your opinion.
 
I suggested a couple pairs of IEMs that I think do really well directly from an MP3 player, don't see anything wrong with that either?

Firstly Apologies quoting you in a rather polarized fashion. If you say you hear the HD 25's as you do then ..well you do..but I definitely don't hear them like you .
 

I'm no fan boy waving my HD25 flag & I  have found my place in the universe..? or rather I did but right now I have temporarily miss-placed the Map I did sketch.Anyway it's in the perfect position in relation to the sun which is superb for each and everyone of us and our opinions .
 
I'm simple letting you know ( you'll thank me eventually)  that I think you are completely wrong in your opinion about the HD 25's sound stage .What headphones are you comparing them against? .That's what's so much fun about these forums we can give opinions and have healthy debates. I do value your opinion but I tend to be biased towards my own better opinion  .
 
Like it or not the HUD 25s have a detailed sound-stage ,all be it in a relatively tight envelope as they are closed headphones ,referring  to them as lifeless is a very misleading and a inaccurate description  .  .I'll also add , you suggest the HD 25's "become quite boring after a while"  what were the HD 25's  before they  became "quite boring?".And what genre of music were you listening too? maybe you should try listening to less boring music? .
 
Here try this out you may not like it but boring it Ain't http://soundcloud.com/i-b-1-dance/i-b-1-dance-green-revolution
 
I was just pointing out some definite contradictions in your reviews .
 
If you find the HD 25's sound stage "lifeless" but find I.E.M 's OK to listen too
 
I also listen with I.E.M and comparable to headphones are a different species . They can not give  the same depth of sound stage as decent headphones.
 
They simply don't have the space .what you can get with Good I.E.M is a decent musical separation but without the room that is inherent in Headphones like the HD 25's .
 
Similar to Big and small speakers . Though technology can make small things give a better perception of Big the Big things do it more naturally .
 
This is directly relevant in my opinion .In the Pure physical reality, removed from human thought, subjectivity does not exists .
 
 After all our opinions and emotions , if we don't  begin acting in accordance with the laws of nature that best suit nature and not our "subjective opinions" everything we have ever done will be dust .Exit Headphone Reviews .
 
That's just an opinion I'm sure I could be subjectively ridiculed .
 
Kinda Cool though that every headphone ,IEM , amp , speaker is essentially manufactured out of the elements that stars produce when they Die or are Born .
 
Anyways Graphicism have a very Good day and enjoy listening to your lively headphones whichever you find them to be ! .
 
 
 
 
 

 

[Digital-Pride]

Graphicism has been challenged. 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Kinda Cool though that every headphone ,IEM , amp , speaker is essentially manufactured out of the elements that stars produce when they Die or are Born .

Headphone, amps and speakers are the things hydrogen atoms do, given 13.7 billion years of cosmic evolution...
 
I'm not sure what you're waffling on about, maybe you can simplify it for me?
 
Also the sound clip you linked me too, was this an example of poor sounding music? Was there a point to it?

 

[ib1dance]

 
Quote:

Graphicism has been challenged. 

 
Not challenged just technically corrected.  Graphicism  still has avoided explaining his central "opinion".That being,Describing a widely used professional monitoring headphone such as the HD25's as having a "lifeless" sound stage and in the next sentence recommending some I.E.M 's .

 
Quote:

Headphone, amps and speakers are the things hydrogen atoms do, given 13.7 billion years of cosmic evolution...
 
I'm not sure what you're waffling on about, maybe you can simplify it for me?
 
Also the sound clip you linked me too, was this an example of poor sounding music? Was there a point to it?

 
 
What words in  the sentence were waffle for you? Manufacture,elements,stars produce, Die and Born? . never mind lets focus on the sound shall we.
 
Actually you have a point about that sound-clip that you loved so much   .Listening to that track On relatively large and lively headphones like The HD25's the central beat sits OK with the rest of the frequencies, personally preference of how large a beat you like aside.
 
Using relatively balanced I.E.M the central beat pokes out too much .The low frequencies on I.E.M have no where to go but inside the ear canal .Whereas with the Big headphones some of that bass can be absorbed by the skull and heard as conductivity .
 
Really Good mastering and using Good monitor speakers can design a mix that sits equally well with both I.E.M 's ,headphones & speakers provided they are all relatively well balanced in relation to one another .That "poor sounding music"  was produced exclusively using closed headphones thus hasn't been "tested" and adjusted if needed to sound balanced on any other type of audio reproduction system .
 
Good use of re-verb & or well recorded Audio can give our sense's the sound of space ,but only the bigger speakers can truly reproduce that space and open up the stereo field .
It's just a difference that can be enjoyed, since Quality I.E.M's make up for using only the replicated sound-stage by a sensitive delivery of that recorded    sound stage
 
So with Big open headphones you can enjoy the roominess and get a little "lost in music" whilst with I.E.M and to a lessor degree closed cans you can marvel at the perception of room though from a smaller more detailed focal point .
 
which brings me back to my Argument about reviewing Big-er headphones as having a "lifeless" sound stage and then recommending I.E.M's .
 
HD25's have a Detailed sound-stage .They are very Good at accurate Audio Reproduction, thus are very Good at  reproducing the re-verb in  the music that give a sense of space .
 
If your personal taste is a huge "stage" in music, they may not be to your liking,unless all your music  is from a Huge stage recording or has lots of huge reverberation added,like euphoric trance for example etc.
 
HD25's are quality if you want headphones that give you a honest representation of the original recording,as they are Pro monitor headphones.
 
And have stood the test of time for that reason.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

HD25's have a Detailed sound-stage .They are very Good at accurate Audio Reproduction, thus are very Good at  reproducing the re-verb in  the music that give a sense of space .

 
I'm not going to argue with you mainly because I just do not know what you're banging on about.
 
The HD25s as you quite rightly put it are monitoring headphones with an almost monotone presentation. This makes it easy to master music and monitor levels, exactly what the headphones are made to do. Much like I could hear a sentence clearer if it were read to me as opposed to being sung. The one I find more musically engaging however is the less clearer of the two, I would say one was boring while the other engaging. So there you have it, that's why I think they are completely flat and lifeless with a constricted soundstage. As far as arguing that they must be better than IEMs in this department is just plain wrong, I will avoid asinine questions.
 
What baffles me is that of all the HD25 owners, everyone but you, seems to come to the same conclusion that they have a very limited soundstage. This is there downfall, and this is what I was bringing to the OPs attention.

 

[ib1dance]

 
Quote:

 
I'm not going to argue with you mainly because I just do not know what you're banging on about.
 
The HD25s as you quite rightly put it are monitoring headphones with an almost monotone presentation. This makes it easy to master music and monitor levels, exactly what the headphones are made to do. Much like I could hear a sentence clearer if it were read to me as opposed to being sung. The one I find more musically engaging however is the less clearer of the two, I would say one was boring while the other engaging. So there you have it, that's why I think they are completely flat and lifeless with a constricted soundstage. As far as arguing that they must be better than IEMs in this department is just plain wrong, I will avoid asinine questions.
 
What baffles me is that of all the HD25 owners, everyone but you, seems to come to the same conclusion that they have a very limited sound stage. This is there downfall, and this is what I was bringing to the OPs attention.

 
Your assumption that you and you alone knows what "all the HD25 owners" all but me that is, hear is obviously non sense & a ridiculous assumption to make, like the review that the HD25's sound-stage is lifeless or is it merely limited as you are also now saying .You obviously are certain of your assessment and your perception of lifelessness of sound-stage with  these Good quality Stereo headphone, so as you said lets not argue our case any more as I'm content with how I hear these headphones and certainly wouldn't wish to be convinced by you, that I should in fact be hearing a lifeless sound stage.
 
I bid you a good day Sir! Though I'm guessing your going to tell me again that I'm either banging on or waffling on, which is probably how you address any free thinking person  that shines light on your ignorance .If you keep on repeating these kind of words it may become self evident that it's in fact you whom are drifting towards nonsense.

 
Quote:

So I ordered Sennheiser HD 25-1 II. I hope they'll be good

Thanks for help!

 
I'm Glad you were not put off by some peoples reviews . So have you received the HD25'S yet and if so, be confident and tell the world what you and you alone think they sound like.
 
Maybe you hear elements that others can not comprehend thus have no way of understanding .
 
Maybe you dislike there soundstage like Graphicism ? where he/she hears limitation I hear refined control .
 
what do you think ?

 

[seula]

I see that there is a very interesting discussion here
So, after 3 days of constant listening, mainly from my iPad, but also from iRiver ifp, I want to give You my thoughts.
These are surely the best headphones I have ever heard. In one word, the thing that decided about that conclusion is- natural sound (ok, thats two words ). Now music sounds very similar to that what I hear, when I'm attending to live concerts. This is what I think is the best in this phones.
A bone of contention in this thread- soundstage. I have never heard good open headphones. My only experience are IEMs (mdr-ex85, ADDIEM, zen aurvana, se530, re0, ep635) and closed cans (ath-m50, ath-es7, creative aurvana live). And after reading all these complaints about soundstage in hd25, I've accepted the idea of non-existing or at best something about 2 inches wide inside my head. So I was very happy and surprised when I put hd 25 on my head. I was given not very wide soundstage (but surely better or similar to my IEMs and only a little narrower than m50). But wIdth is only one of many aspects. Every other aspects like depth, instruments localization, dynamic in building, and quality are far more better than any other headphones I've listend.
Bass- second biggest surprise. It's natural! Not boomy like on ath-m50. It's very strong, punchy (and I understand why some people don't like it, it's so different than typical "loudness" sloppy bass). It has very high "resolution", I can easily distinguish every bass-source in low registers.
About mids and highs I won't write, because there are tons of reviews written by people who can desribe sound far better than me Or maybe about highs- they are of course very good and present, but they could be more... tangible? expressive? I don't know how to say that
In my opinion, hd25 totally defeats ath-m50. I don't understand why Ath-m50 are sometimes reccomended over hd25. Only reasonable advanteges that audio-technica have, are lower price and circumaural construction, so they suppose to be more comfortable. But after changing to velour pads, I find sennheiser almost not present on my ears, and more comfortable than ath, which has too much clamping force.
So I'm very happy about my new headphones and not felling sorry for my wallet They are worth the price.

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Your assumption that you and you alone knows what "all the HD25 owners" all but me that is, hear is obviously non sense & a ridiculous assumption to make, like the review that the HD25's sound-stage is lifeless or is it merely limited as you are also now saying .You obviously are certain of your assessment and your perception of lifelessness of sound-stage with  these Good quality Stereo headphone, so as you said lets not argue our case any more as I'm content with how I hear these headphones and certainly wouldn't wish to be convinced by you, that I should in fact be hearing a lifeless sound stage.
 
I bid you a good day Sir! Though I'm guessing your going to tell me again that I'm either banging on or waffling on, which is probably how you address any free thinking person  that shines light on your ignorance .If you keep on repeating these kind of words it may become self evident that it's in fact you whom are drifting towards nonsense.

It isn't my assumption but a general concession; much like Skullcandy is known for poor sound quality, HD25s have a small shallow soundstage. I said you were waffling on because I can't understand the majority of what you wrote; either English isn't your first language or your a child, either way it isn't because you're a free thinker floating on the clouds of righteousness, dude.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Well, frequency-response flat monitor headphones will always be a lot more "boring" compared to cans that emphasize certain frequencies, simply due to how we hear and what most people perceive as a "fun response".  A soundstage really is neither engaging nor lifeless; it's simply a matter of spatial perception, and some types of music will benefit much more from an expanded soundstage, while others benefit from a smaller, more compact one.  But, to throw subjectivity into the matter again, it seems that most people find a headphone with a moderately expanded soundstage to be the most "fun", because it neither sounds like you're listening through a tin can (the primary downfall of a lot of closed cans), nor sitting in a field 100 yards from the band while they're playing.
 
All that said, opinions are opinions; one is not inherently "more correct" than another, and attempting to claim yours as "more right" simply because someone else has negative opinions of a set of headphones you like is just a bit off.  He thinks the cans are boring; you don't.  His opinion isn't going to change how you hear the music, so why take such issue with it?
 
Quote:

Not challenged just technically corrected.  Graphicism  still has avoided explaining his central "opinion".That being,Describing a widely used professional monitoring headphone such as the HD25's as having a "lifeless" sound stage and in the next sentence recommending some I.E.M 's .

 

 

[MrBapti]

Quote:

Don't worry you're english is pretty good(better than some posters here who's english is their first language).  If you're after that engaging sound signature then you can't go wrong with either one.  Hmm, if I were to chose one I'd lean more towards the Sennheiser.

LOL

 

[Gubretti]

This thread is pretty funny, I have the HD-25 and I agree with Graphicism that they suffer from a lack of soundstage, other than that they are quite good for portable and on top of that if you cant afford an amp they still sound amazing. I laughed when ib1dance called out Graphicism for listening to boring music, sorry to burst your bubble but I listened to your soundcloud link and the Graphicism electronica mix blows that $#@! out of the water  

 

[YakAttack]

I love my HD 25's.... the soundstage is NOT that bad.  It could be slightly wider for genres like Trance, but considering everything else it does (isolation, separation, comfort, ability to get parts, etc), I wouldn't choose anything else right now.  I mix mainly Dubstep, Techno, Trance, House, Dutch, and Electro, and I love these cans.  $200 was a fantastic value for them considering everything that it can do....
 
Just my honest opinion

 

[ib1dance]

 
Quote:

I see that there is a very interesting discussion here

So, after 3 days of constant listening, mainly from my iPad, but also from iRiver ifp, I want to give You my thoughts.
These are surely the best headphones I have ever heard. In one word, the thing that decided about that conclusion is- natural sound (ok, thats two words

). Now music sounds very similar to that what I hear, when I'm attending to live concerts. This is what I think is the best in this phones.
A bone of contention in this thread- soundstage. I have never heard good open headphones. My only experience are IEMs (mdr-ex85, ADDIEM, zen aurvana, se530, re0, ep635) and closed cans (ath-m50, ath-es7, creative aurvana live). And after reading all these complaints about soundstage in hd25, I've accepted the idea of non-existing or at best something about 2 inches wide inside my head. So I was very happy and surprised when I put hd 25 on my head. I was given not very wide soundstage (but surely better or similar to my IEMs and only a little narrower than m50). But wIdth is only one of many aspects. Every other aspects like depth, instruments localization, dynamic in building, and quality are far more better than any other headphones I've listend.
Bass- second biggest surprise. It's natural! Not boomy like on ath-m50. It's very strong, punchy (and I understand why some people don't like it, it's so different than typical "loudness" sloppy bass). It has very high "resolution", I can easily distinguish every bass-source in low registers.
About mids and highs I won't write, because there are tons of reviews written by people who can desribe sound far better than me

Or maybe about highs- they are of course very good and present, but they could be more... tangible? expressive? I don't know how to say that

In my opinion, hd25 totally defeats ath-m50. I don't understand why Ath-m50 are sometimes reccomended over hd25. Only reasonable advanteges that audio-technica have, are lower price and circumaural construction, so they suppose to be more comfortable. But after changing to velour pads, I find sennheiser almost not present on my ears, and more comfortable than ath, which has too much clamping force.
So I'm very happy about my new headphones and not felling sorry for my wallet

They are worth the price.

 

I'm Glad your enjoying them .
 
They are  sensitive Headphones . You play a track with tons of re-verb or a live "stage" recording @ what you get is a honest, or as you noticed natural reproduction of that sound.So the HD25's may have the closed can feeling but can give you the sense of a large sound-stage depending on the type of music you listen to .
 
Quote:Seula

Every other aspects like depth, instruments localization, dynamic in building, and quality are far more better than any other headphones I've listend

 
What you are describing is a accurate Audio reproduction .Hd25's produce a relatively accurate sound-stage . If the music has a lively sound-stage the headphones will reproduce it .
 
Quote:Seula

Or maybe about highs- they are of course very good and present, but they could be more... tangible? expressive?"
 

In my experience Good quality I.E.M can excel  with high frequencies .If your wanting to find  headphones that can "fizzle" those tiny highs like high end tiny I.E.M ... let me know when you find one.
 
Maybe the best headphone designed would be a Full size headphone & I.E.M Hybrid . Capable of giving the depth and space of the low frequencies like Big headphones and playing the intricate, fast and  delicate highs frequencies like I.E.M 's .
 
Shame I don't see how such a Hybrid would be technical possible as I.E.M's need a seal to work effectively . Maybe in the future a one way acoustic valve could be designed that lets the Big headphone vibrations in whilst not letting any vibration thus Air out thus maintaining the seal

.
 
.
 
Quote:

In my opinion, hd25 totally defeats ath-m50.

 
Some people may prefer the slightly warmer,bigger and relaxed sound of the m50's  .I agree though that the HD25's are the more lively of the two and have more punch, whereas the M50'S have more a recessed sound in comparison to the HD25's  I personally enjoy listening with both and would find it very difficult to choose  a favorite of these two.
 
I like the m50's as they have a Good reproduction with a little added Gloss to the sound that may come from  over executing the sub-bass slightly  .
 
I like the HD25's because what you put into these headphones you get out .They are well balanced monitor headphones that give a True representation .
 
Even if that True representation makes you slightly dislike some mp3 encoding because they can make the Highs sound a little scratchy on some lower kbps mp3's .
 
 
 
 
Quote:

So I'm very happy about my new headphones and not felling sorry for my wallet

They are worth the price.

 
And any worn out parts can be replaced.
 
My only wish is that they were made from recycled plastics and or biodegradable plastic, but that's just a personal preference based on the desire to live within a sustainable economy that works with our environment not against it .
 
I wonder how'd they'd resonate if they were made from wood .

 

[ib1dance]

Quote:

All that said, opinions are opinions; one is not inherently "more correct" than another, and attempting to claim yours as "more right" simply because someone else has negative opinions of a set of headphones you like is just a bit off.  He thinks the cans are boring; you don't.  His opinion isn't going to change how you hear the music, so why take such issue with it?
 


 

I'm only taking "issue" with it because I'm enjoying taking issue,besides you too are now taking issue , with it .Everybody stop taking Issue and lets just enjoy the music .
 
Truth is I usual don't bother taking issue .But I've twisted my ankle so can't dance for a few days so I thought..? well I'll go take issue with someone over some headphones over at head-fi .And it's going better than expected .
 
Anyway on with the Issue's ......And what do you think "opinions" are then!.Just thoughts generated from a object, the brain,.
 
I know the debate got a little silly  . But we are describing physical objects that obviously do have an inherent physical characteristic,s.They like all physical objects (everything) can only operate within the laws of physics .
 
It's not my "opinion" that describing the HD25's sound-stage as "lifeless" is a completely inaccurate distortion of the sound they produce, it's a physical objective fact.
 
Follows is a  review of  water .The stuff that comes from a tap via the sea and back again .Though most probably arrived on planet earth from Meteorite impacts .
 
"Clean Water is extremely rough to the touch ,looks like sand,smells like smoke and tastes like plastic " <<< I.M.O <<< It's self evident that this "opinion" is corrupted and wrong.
 
Physical Objects are simply not "subjective" objects .
 
Getting to the facts about these objects has been Argued over time and time again . Eventually  sense prevail and thus comes  mutual agreement of these Objects .
 
Claiming to be "more right" is in no way "A bit off" it's simple stating that I am very confident in my 'review'  in sensing these physical objects.
 
 
Pure water is pure water and can be scientifically proved as such .Throwing subjectivity @ the facts,just because you don't like them, will not alter them .
 
I.E - Enjoy your HD25's for you have chosen wisely my friend