Pioneer's First Hi-End Headphones: SE-Master 1
Jun 22, 2016 at 4:55 PM Post #646 of 2,189
Im interested in these headphones, so subscribing to the thread.
 
I keep hearing mixed reviews in the bass. Some say its lacking some say its over presented.
 
Wish I were apart of a tour and I would listen myself!
 
Jun 22, 2016 at 5:06 PM Post #647 of 2,189
The bass is harder hitting and fuller than that of the Sennheiser HD800(S) - but, it isn't the deepest out there...

Exceptionally balanced is my take on it :)
 
Jun 22, 2016 at 5:10 PM Post #648 of 2,189
The bass is harder hitting and fuller than that of the Sennheiser HD800(S) - but, it isn't the deepest out there...

Exceptionally balanced is my take on it
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Nice, I can handle anything as long as its not below neutral! I'm looking forward to some comparisons between this and the new Utopia.
 
Jun 22, 2016 at 5:30 PM Post #649 of 2,189
Nice, I can handle anything as long as its not below neutral! I'm looking forward to some comparisons between this and the new Utopia.
as am I!

There is one member (apologies, I forget who), who has the Master 1, and has ordered the Utopia...

Will the M1, at as near as damn it half the cost be able to keep up with these new FOTM...

Will be a good battle for sure! :popcorn:
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 6:19 AM Post #651 of 2,189
If I say that I'm hearing the music, rather than its technical merits (or more importantly, its deficiencies) - is that a good enough answer?

With that regard, the M1s are hugely rewarding.
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:05 AM Post #652 of 2,189
   
Just watched it, long video and very good tip! 
 
Very intersting interview I must say, I'm impressed.
Indeed, it seems like Focal did the research on these phones. Totally different dynamic driver design from what the rest of the industry is doing, beryllium (what was used in the tweeters and midranges of Diatone's and Yamaha's greatest speakers from the eighties and probably in the upcoming NS-5000 speakers as well) and a well thought through headphone design (particularly the angle the speakers are aimed at IMO).
Though I still don't like the carbon looks I do understand their choice for real carbon to reduce the weight.
 
What was also very interseting to me were Jude's remarks on the Utopia vs. the Elear after the interview. Might I be one of the odd people (as usual) that would actually prefer the Elear to the Utopia? His description of the sonic differences sure makes me think so.
 
So, first of all I wonder what these are going to cost here in Europe since they are made right here. Converted from USD I come at 3550 Euro but it should be less since there's no import.
Second, I do need to audition those first. Would hate to have bought a 3k€+ headphone only to find out I don't like it or worse, to find out I like the 750€ version more. I hope I get a chance at that audition soon.

 
Sorry all if this is slightly off topic:

H Pascal just thought I could add to your points above being an owner of the Yamaha NS-2000 speakers and Diatone DS-5000 speakers both first made in 1982.
 
The Yamaha NS-2000 had beryllium mid and tweeter drivers and carbon fibre woofers. Now why the Yamaha is so special is because the way the geniuses at Yamaha and Pioneer/TAD vapor deposited it on to their mids & tweeters using copper molds. See the following PDF for an interesting read regarding the process and the differences in beryllium drivers and how not all drivers are created in the same way. 
 
The PDF also discusses the focal drivers along with their method of implementation. May be of interest to those considering the new beryllium focal headphones.
 
www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=40060
 
The Diatone's high end speakers used boron in their tweeters and mids - in my opinion bettering beryllium! However the only comparison I have made is between my NS-2000 and DS-5000. Don't get me wrong the NS-2000 are a superb speaker in so many ways. The Diatone DS-5000 are just better in every-way except transparency where the NS-2000 is it's equal.
 
The new Yamaha NS-5000 speaker uses a newly developed driver material Zylon allegedly with sonic characteristics to better beryllium. (I have not heard this being hyped at this stage)
If there is one company that is under appreciated in the (high end) hifi world it's Yamaha. Yet Yamaha have a history of being able to make exceptional hifi gear. Just do a search on their centennial gear to get an idea of what their capable of.
 
Back on subject the question was asked what is the difference between the SE-M1 and the HD800. As an owner of both I can honestly say that the Pioneer best the HD800 in a number of except - sound stage and detail retrieval which I would say is very close. Where the Pioneers best the HD800 the most IMO is musical enjoyment. The Pioneer is just far more engaging in an emotional way. I still really like the HD800 and it's an excellent headphone in many ways. I just don't find it pulls my heart strings as much as the Pioneers do. I like the HD800 bass it's very realistic however the Pioneer IMO has better bass in terms of impact and depth and yet retains similar realism. I have yet to find something I really don't like about the SE-M1. The price I guess would be one and the difficulty to buy them outside of Japan would be another.
 
I'm still hoping someone might offer a comparison between the Sony MDR-R10 and the SE-M1 any lurkers who have heard both out there?
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:17 AM Post #653 of 2,189
Just for clarity in my previous post the PDF discusses Focal SPEAKER drivers not the new headphone drivers. However I think the way they are made is the same.
 
Regarding non audiophile tracks. The SE-M1 doesn't sound too unforgiving. I have not had ear fatigue yet!
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:29 AM Post #654 of 2,189
  Back on subject the question was asked what is the difference between the SE-M1 and the HD800. As an owner of both I can honestly say that the Pioneer best the HD800 in a number of except - sound stage and detail retrieval which I would say is very close. Where the Pioneers best the HD800 the most IMO is musical enjoyment. The Pioneer is just far more engaging in an emotional way. I still really like the HD800 and it's an excellent headphone in many ways. I just don't find it pulls my heart strings as much as the Pioneers do. I like the HD800 bass it's very realistic however the Pioneer IMO has better bass in terms of impact and depth and yet retains similar realism. I have yet to find something I really don't like about the SE-M1. The price I guess would be one and the difficulty to buy them outside of Japan would be another.
 
I'm still hoping someone might offer a comparison between the Sony MDR-R10 and the SE-M1 any lurkers who have heard both out there?

 
Hi Tim,
 
Pretty much the same thoughts considering the HD800 vs. M1 except for the bass, for me it doesn't go deep enough.
Mind you though, I never had the chance to A/B them directly, it's been years since I had the HD800 and was comparing it to my favorite LA7000 then. 
Last year I got a loaner HD800 which I compared to my LA900 and LCD-XC. I didn't have the M1 yet.
As for soundstage, the HD800 indeed has a bigger soundsatge but like I said, too much of it. I wouldn't go as far as calling it unrealistic but it certainly does take away from the intimacy of headphone listening which is what makes me grab my phones most of the time in the first place.
So both those aspects of the HD800 make me being not a fan of it.
But just like you I can't find something that bothers me about the M1, it sounds right with anything I throw at it and makes for an enjoyable listening time without fatigue whatsoever.
 
It would indeed be nice to hear how the M1 compares to the R10. And I hope the M1 owner who ordered the Utopia shares his thoughts with us as well.
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 6:17 PM Post #655 of 2,189
The M1 does go down quite a niche middle path IMO between the HD800S and the TH900 - from how I interpret it between the HD800 and the TH900, you're in one camp or the other, the M1 has the lucky advantage of offering you the best of both.

Never, ever been happier with an over-ear than with the M1.
 
Jun 24, 2016 at 12:24 AM Post #656 of 2,189
Jun 24, 2016 at 1:59 PM Post #658 of 2,189
As does the ceramic on the Pioneers...

None of it is new though, Sony dabbled with sapphire and diamond evaporated diaphragms over 20 years ago, and then bio cellulose - OK, not quite the same thing, but better than your average PET diaphragm that is used 90+% of the time :)
 
Jun 24, 2016 at 2:05 PM Post #659 of 2,189
As does the ceramic on the Pioneers...

None of it is new though, Sony dabbled with sapphire and diamond evaporated diaphragms over 20 years ago, and then bio cellulose - OK, not quite the same thing, but better than your average PET diaphragm that is used 90+% of the time
smily_headphones1.gif


I really like dynamic drivers.. I think because it is by far the most popular, creators are force to get a little creative. (to our benefit of course)
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 8:03 PM Post #660 of 2,189
I use them a lot with EDM and the bass doesn't reach quite as low as my JVC DX1000, but the texturing on the SEM1 bass and the micro detail is much better.

I also just bought an HE1K, so I'll soon have one of those in house to compare. Should be fun.

 
Would you be willing to share some impressions of the SEM1 vs HE-6 and the DX1000 please
 
Thanks
 

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