Philips Fidelio X2?!
Sep 18, 2014 at 3:49 AM Post #301 of 15,268
I have/had some of the K series open full size and closed cans. Nothing, even the K340 can compete this X2. I wish I could express myself and hype them more (But I am not that kind of person). My number one HP is X2 for the period. But they need at least 250+ h burn-in. I have revised some points in my X2 review because of this.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 5:04 AM Post #302 of 15,268
  I have/had some of the K series open full size and closed cans. Nothing, even the K340 can compete this X2. I wish I could express myself and hype them more (But I am not that kind of person). My number one HP is X2 for the period. But they need at least 250+ h burn-in. I have revised some points in my X2 review because of this.

 
Burn-in time? Does that even exists anymore? From what I read the elements are already "burn-in" att arrival? Whats really happening is that your hearing is adjust to the sound. I have personal only perceived noticable better sound qulity within 24h tops 40h. If you after this time take a new set of headphones or speakers they should sound the same, but yes the mind may trick us into beleving otherwise.
 
I have myself listen to bright and clear headphones(Philips HP890) and speakers(Monitor Audio RS) for a long while(12 years) and this have probably adjusted my hearing to this kind of sound charactics. When I try a headphone like the X1 it only sounds muffled with no clearity what so ever to me. When users say that the vocals have extrem clearity in the X1 im really surprised, both my gf and I thinks the opposite and that is probably becouse we have about the same experions of a much clearer sound.
 
Another question : How did you do your tests? was it a side by side compare? what headphones did you include in the test? What hardware? The memory of details in sound(as with picture qulity) do not last as long as one would think, but yes big changes and especially things we like/do not like will last longer.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 5:14 AM Post #303 of 15,268
Lets not start to discuss & argue about this subject in THIS thread please!
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 7:09 AM Post #304 of 15,268
Lets not start to discuss & argue about this subject in THIS thread please!


I am with you on this matter CoiL :wink:
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 8:48 AM Post #305 of 15,268
   
Burn-in time? Does that even exists anymore? From what I read the elements are already "burn-in" att arrival? Whats really happening is that your hearing is adjust to the sound. I have personal only perceived noticable better sound qulity within 24h tops 40h. If you after this time take a new set of headphones or speakers they should sound the same, but yes the mind may trick us into beleving otherwise.
 
I have myself listen to bright and clear headphones(Philips HP890) and speakers(Monitor Audio RS) for a long while(12 years) and this have probably adjusted my hearing to this kind of sound charactics. When I try a headphone like the X1 it only sounds muffled with no clearity what so ever to me. When users say that the vocals have extrem clearity in the X1 im really surprised, both my gf and I thinks the opposite and that is probably becouse we have about the same experions of a much clearer sound.
 
Another question : How did you do your tests? was it a side by side compare? what headphones did you include in the test? What hardware? The memory of details in sound(as with picture qulity) do not last as long as one would think, but yes big changes and especially things we like/do not like will last longer.

 
yeah, I also read your opinion on the X1 about being muffled and all, and you used a what applier again? impedance of the output slot?
 
still using the Yamaha 7.2 Receiver RX-A1020 and Sound Blaster Xfi Titanium for your setup? what are the output impedance on these?
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 9:08 AM Post #306 of 15,268
   
yeah, I also read your opinion on the X1 about mid being muffled and all, and you used a what applier again? impedance of the output slot?

Im no headphone expert but I assume that you are talking about the amp that are feeding the headphone. There is no rocket science to get sound in a headphone like the X1 but this what I used : 
 
SETUP 1 : Intel NUC(DC3217IYE) Windows 8 connected with HDMI(Digital) to Yamaha RS-A1020
SETUP 2 : Samsung S3 with Andoird 4.3
SETUP 3 : PC(Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 moderboard with onboard soundcard) with Windows 8 connected to Logitech Logitech Z-5500
SETUP 4:  PC(INTEL motherboard) with Windows 7 and a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro external soundcard
 
Music was in FLAC or high qulity MP3.
 
I did note a brighter/clearer sound in the Samsung S3 compare to the RS-A1020 but it was marginal.
 
Let me be clear, Im not saying general that one headphone is better then the other Im telling you that our taste downvoted the X1 for the given reasons.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 9:15 AM Post #307 of 15,268
Can I make a fair suggestion to anyone with an open mind regarding burn-in? If you buy a new X2, or any headphone for that matter, make sure that it is functioning at first then burn in for as long as possible without listening. 2-3 weeks should be plenty.
 
edit: suggestion directed to those open to burn in
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 9:30 AM Post #308 of 15,268
  Can I make a fair suggestion to anyone? If you buy a new X2, or any headphone for that matter, make sure that it is functioning at first then burn in for as long as possible without listening. 2-3 weeks should be plenty.

I would much sooner not believe in burn in at all than have to go through that but that's just me. HAHA
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 9:31 AM Post #309 of 15,268
  Im no headphone expert but I assume that you are talking about the amp that are feeding the headphone. There is no rocket science to get sound in a headphone like the X1 but this what I used : 
 
SETUP 1 : Intel NUC(DC3217IYE) Windows 8 connected with HDMI(Digital) to Yamaha RS-A1020
SETUP 2 : Samsung S3 with Andoird 4.3
SETUP 3 : PC(Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 moderboard with onboard soundcard) with Windows 8 connected to Logitech Logitech Z-5500
SETUP 4:  PC(INTEL motherboard) with Windows 7 and a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro external soundcard
 
Music was in FLAC or high qulity MP3.
 
I did note a brighter/clearer sound in the Samsung S3 compare to the RS-A1020 but it was marginal.
 
Let me be clear, Im not saying general that one headphone is better then the other Im telling you that our taste downvoted the X1 for the given reasons.

I know your sound preference leans towards very sharp highs on beyerdynamics and grados, these make the 7506 highs sound like a joke at times. sounds good = yes, safe for long term listening = no. I mean if you really are looking for the most balanced and detailed phone for monitoring, get an electrostatic, done and done, beats the hell out of dynamics in every aspect.
 
btw this thread is about the X2 not the X1, which is not even on the market yet, so no comment on how it really is.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 9:39 AM Post #310 of 15,268
  Can I make a fair suggestion to anyone? If you buy a new X2, or any headphone for that matter, make sure that it is functioning at first then burn in for as long as possible without listening. 2-3 weeks should be plenty.


dont do this, this is seriously out of whack. just use as you normally would. burn in isn't proven either, unless someone post actual reference data of a list of units being tested and confirmed from a standard test, then its all a matter of subjective opinion.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 9:50 AM Post #311 of 15,268
  Can I make a fair suggestion to anyone? If you buy a new X2, or any headphone for that matter, make sure that it is functioning at first then burn in for as long as possible without listening. 2-3 weeks should be plenty.

 
Pleas, link me to some good info about burn-in on headphones, All "real" info I read states that there is vary little burn-in time and that this is done at the fabric? The change in sound you notice is really your ears that adjusts and to me this makes a lot of sense.
 
For me the burn-in time just sounds like a sale talk to avoid refund.
 
 
  I know your sound preference leans towards very sharp highs on beyerdynamics and grados, these make the 7506 highs sound like a joke at times. sounds good = yes, safe for long term listening = no. I mean if you really are looking for the most balanced and detailed phone for monitoring, get an electrostatic, done and done, beats the hell out of dynamics in every aspect.
 
btw this thread is about the X2 not the X1, which is not even on the market yet, so no comment on how it really is.

 
As I have stated, the Philips HP890 is brigther then the DT990 and I have listen to the HP890 for about 12 years and my hearing is still good(according to the tests). It is however possible to hurt the hearing if you listen to something that you are not liking. Say that you are listening to a favorite track, you turn the volume as high as you can, if we switch to a track you dont like at all you may most likely hurt your hearing. The same to probably apply to high and bright tones.
 
About the X2, it can be ordered here : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-X2-Fidelio-Headphone/dp/B00MRUPSHQ/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1411048222&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Philips+X2 2 left right now.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 10:31 AM Post #313 of 15,268
   
Pleas, link me to some good info about burn-in on headphones, All "real" info I read states that there is vary little burn-in time and that this is done at the fabric? The change in sound you notice is really your ears that adjusts and to me this makes a lot of sense.
 
For me the burn-in time just sounds like a sale talk to avoid refund.
 

 
The ears hear the sound. The brain listens (processes the sound). Yes there is a strong argument for perceptual adaption in sound, it is already a well established phenomenon in the field of vision:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_adaptation
 
Here is an explanation and method on burn in from JLab audio I found:
 
http://www.jlabaudio.com/index/burn-in
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 10:34 AM Post #314 of 15,268
It would be good if discussion about burn in or no burn in could be held in the appropriate section on this forum and not in a thread dedicated to one headphone.

Just my 2c :wink:
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 10:40 AM Post #315 of 15,268
 
dont do this, this is seriously out of whack. just use as you normally would. burn in isn't proven either, unless someone post actual reference data of a list of units being tested and confirmed from a standard test, then its all a matter of subjective opinion.

 
It's never been proven. Ever. There is nothing but anecdotal evidence, I have never seen a single piece of actual measurement data showing a change in headphone response from immediately opening the box to weeks later.
 
I am, however, a big believer in psychological burn-in, and I can prove it just by talking about my experience with my three headphones in my sig: the VModa M100, Final Audio Pandora, and Shure SE846. I came to the M100 from a pair of Beats Mixrs. In comparison, the M100 is bass-light and has clearer highs. My first impressions were mild disappointment and it took a bit of "burn in" for me to come to appreciate the full sound signature. I got used to that, and loved it. I upped to the Pandoras, and suddenly those sounded sharp and bass-light, although I knew they sounded gorgeous. I adjusted to that and my M100s, which previously sounded bass-light with great highs, was bassy and veiled. 
 
Enter the SE846. Massive subbass but an even extension with no hump. When I first got them, the bass sounded like a cannon. It was thunderous. As a bass guy, I loved it. These turned into the only headphones I listened to... and then the right earpiece broke. I went back to my M100s which have less subbass, mids recessed, and upper treble rolled off. Somehow it sounded like EVERYTHING on the  M100 was pulled back. I used the M100s for a while because they're more portable than the Pandora, and adjusted to the sound again. When I got the Shures back, it was like I'd forgotten what that much sub-bass sounds like.
 
Humans are adaptable creatures. If you've ever used Flux on your laptop, you know what happens when you turn it off at night. Your eyes got so used to the warm, red-toned screen that 
the normal colors seem blue and BLINDING. If you listen to a headphone for 250 hours, you're going to acclimate to it, regardless of its sound signature. You may very well grow to appreciate it, which isn't a bad thing, but we don't have an immovable baseline of sonic understanding upon which we judge all headphones objectively. We adjust, we acclimate, we learn to hear the full value of a headphone after a while.
 
I've absolutely judged headphones from 5 minutes of listening. Is that wrong of me? I'd say it's very possible, but at the same time I don't have 2-3 hours to listen to every headphone I'm interested in. At the same time, if I find one that I kiiiinda like and am willing to pull the trigger on, given a few weeks I may very well end up thinking it's the best in the world. It didn't burn in, but I did. 
 

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