Perfect Wave DAC Owner Unite

[purrin]

Just updated my original post. Went back to 2.02 firmware. My basic issue was NativeX sounding awfully bright and trebly compared to other modes such as Native.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

Wow interesting findings.  I need to not be sick and out of town to see what's what!
 
Back when I found the Halide Bridge to be a noticeable improvement with the PWD, enough to make me not wince at its pricetag.
 
Didn't they mention on the PS Audio board they are working on a new new version FW?

 

[purrin]

I didn't read enough, and although it seems that Paul prefers 2.10 himself, I can certainly see them coming up with a new firmware. They did so with the PS Audio Bridge firmware when a lot of customers didn't like 2.09 and 2.10, so 2.12 brought back some of 2.08's sound. To me the differences between the DAC firmware 2.02 and 2.10 are even more significant.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

Oh yeah I'm running the 2.0.2 as well, The FW you're using Purrin isn't the original I think but actually the original with some minor changes.

 

[sachu]

How is the USB input on the PWD mk1?

 

[purrin]

IMO, the USB input on the mk1, despite it lacking any special buzzwords is actually pretty good. I ran that in "Native" mode (which I don't usually run for poor sources, i.e transports.) It sounded better than the usual "Best-Buy" CD and DVD players into coax, and certainly better than optical out from any source.
 
Native mode doesn't put the data stream through an ASRC - it bypasses it. Via USB, I found it to be the most detailed and also a tad warmer than coax from poor sources. I usually ran optical or coax from poor sources through the ASRC, and they never sounded as good as USB / Native. 
 
The caveat is that my PCs and laptops all have SSDs with unnecessary Windows Services disabled and programs removed - "hardened: so to speak. So that may have been huge a factor with my own experience with USB. I've sort of come to the conclusion that computer audio sucks not because of just USB, but also because of the "computer" aspect, i.e. the CPU having to process OS interrupts, multi-task, and doing other housekeeping junk.

 

[sachu]

Thanks Marv! 
 
I was actually a little disappointed to find out that the Mk1 did not have the XMOS chip in it. But if you say ther eis still some merit to the original version that eases my concern a little.

 

[purrin]

PS Audio PerfectWave DAC Mk1 and Mk2 Differences

 
Not that it matters that much anymore because the $799  upgrade deal is no longer available, but below is a list of differences that I hear between the mk1 and mk2, firmware 2.02 with a modified Marantz CD5004* serving as the transport feeding the DAC via coax in NativeX mode. At a $1000 now, it's still not a bad deal for an upgrade that's probably going to put you into Wadia, Meridian, or Esoteric mega-buck DAC territory. I would have to drag this DAC to a local audiophile dealer to confirm though since this assertion is from memory.
 
Here are the mk2 improvements over the mk1:
 

• Upper-mids restrained a little bit from the mk1 - neutral now. A slight change and a good thing! A little bit more laid back which is welcome from the mk1 which was to me a little bit on the forward sounding side (both FR and soundstage.) The good thing is that the trademark no-punches pulled mk1 attack and transient response have not been lost.
• Increased bass dynamics. A notable change. Kicks much harder than before.
• Increased resolution in terms of volume levels. More granularity and less "posterization" between volume levels. More continuous gradation of volume. The mk1 was already very good at this, but the mk2 is even better. Simply awesome, especially with note sustains and decays.
• Related to the above - more of that" instantaneous dynamic contrast" effect. Greater speed, acceleration, or oomph. Digs more into the music, with more authority. A subtle improvement.
• Greater ability to distinguish individual sounds while things are busy. Throw up a track with a wall of sound, and it's much easier to distinguish not just instruments and effects, but the specific sounds that they make. This also means an increased ability to reproduce soft sounds or passages very clearly while things are loud and busy. Very uncanny in this regard.
• Overall greater clarity. An obvious NativeX effect.

 
Factors 3,4 and to a lesser extent 5, make the mk2 sound more involving with music. I am avoiding the use of words analog, organic, or musical because it I've seen those terms applied to equipment which sounded overly warm, gooey, artificially smooth, or rolled-off, which is not the case here. What I mean is more realistic, more like real-life - not the "Leben" effect.
 
Factors 1 and 2 are more technical in nature, but were certainly welcome improvements because as I've said in an earlier post, they address the two minor tonal shortcomings that I felt existed with the mk1. Tonally this DAC is finally 100% perfect, at least to me.
 
*The CD5004 underwent a variety of modifications. The CD mechanism was mass loaded and dampened by gluing strips of metal cup to specific shapes and applying Dynamat to strategic parts. The same was also done for the casework. Additional thick metal "L" supports were also secured between the base and the walls of the chassis. Clock crystals were dampened with Dynamat. The DAC/analog and headphone-out boards were disabled by removing power delivery to them (pulled at the transformer.)

 

[purrin]

 

 

Purrin, I hope I'm not asking too much but have you by any chance heard the Resolution Audio Cantata Music Centre? It's a DAC (with Burr Brown PCM1904 DAC chips) which takes a variety of digital inputs and has a CD player.
 
It retails for around $5000 but people have commented it compares well to $20K Esoteric DAC's, etc. I was pretty set on getting one and pairing it with the Liquid Fire and LCD-3's but if the PS Audio PerfectWave mk1 is as good as you say it is you just might have saved me $3000.

 
This question is also extended to anyone with experience with either DACs.
 
Thanks in advance.

 
I don't know anything about it. I assume you are referring to the PCM1704 and not the PCM1904? 
 
As for the PS Audio PWD, I'm referring to the mk2 (not the mk1) which can play with the some of the best. The mk2 is running 4K USD now which is not cheap. The earlier adopters got lucky with the 2K and $800 special DAC and upgrade deals. Is there any way you can sneak a listen with either one? How you plan on feeding the DAC may play a part in your decision.
 
The special thing about the PWD mk2 (for those not familiar with what's in it) is the NativeX mode. It basically solves a lot of the jitter / interface issues between data source and DAC. It's my understanding that PS Audio has implemented their old Digital Lens technology into the digital receiver board. Basically the bits are temporarily stored in a local memory buffer first and then directly fed to the DAC chip per its clock. It's definitely not BS and it works. (You can turn the function on or off.)
 

 

[temporaryname]

Quote:

I don't know anything about it. I assume you are referring to the PCM1704 and not the PCM1904? 
 
As for the PS Audio PWD, I'm referring to the mk2 (not the mk1) which can play with the some of the best. The mk2 is running 4K USD now which is not cheap. The earlier adopters got lucky with the 2K and $800 special DAC and upgrade deals. Is there any way you can sneak a listen with either one? How you plan on feeding the DAC may play a part in your decision.
 
The special thing about the PWD mk2 (for those not familiar with what's in it) is the NativeX mode. It basically solves a lot of the jitter / interface issues between data source and DAC. It's my understanding that PS Audio has implemented their old Digital Lens technology into the digital receiver board. Basically the bits are temporarily stored in a local memory buffer first and then directly fed to the DAC chip per its clock. It's definitely not BS and it works. (You can turn the function on or off.)
 

Yes, you are correct. PCM1704's. Sorry.
 
Thanks for bringing this DAC to my attention. I'll check out some reviews on it. Unfortunately, due to my location, it's near impossible to audition high end headphone gear. I've sourced a Resolution Audio Cantata dealer however they're on the other side of Australia and don't ship units interstate just for auditions. If the PWD mk2 is running at $4000 then it's closer to the Cantata price however it might be easier to find a used one.... the Cantata is new and no one wants to sell it 

 
Thanks again!
 

 

[mwilson]

While I haven't heard the perfectwave dac, I can attest to the sound quality of the cantata. You can't go wrong with either, though you're more likely to find the pwd on the used market. I didn't see one single used cantata, so i begrudgingly bit the bullet and bought it new from a dealer.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Does anyone feel NativeX (at least via coax) seems to have a little bit more treble? NativeX does sound much clearer. I'll have to try NativeX from the Bridge. Mk2 seem to address two shortcomings I've felt the PWD mk1 had: 1) lack of bass dynamics; 2) a little bit too forward sounding. There is even more micro-detail, not that there wasn't enough already.
 
UPDATE: OK here's the deal:
 
2.10 firmware + NativeX is basically un-listenable on my headphone rig. It's way way too trebly, even on my neutral or treble rolled headphones. I went back to 2.02 and NativeX now has the same sound balance as Native. The 2.02 sound (with or without NativeX) is basically the mk1 sound plus more way more dynamics in the bass (as described above - tons of kick) with a tad less upper-midrange emphasis. It's basically perfect, at least for me. This DAC is getting into uber territory. But then it's $4000 now.
 
So if you have the card with 2.02, don't delete it!. BTW I had to use a different SD card than the one provided. For some reason, my PWD would not read the firmware off the supplied SD card.
 
BTW, Paul @ PSAudio has acknowledged the differences in sound between the two firmware versions. He prefers 2.10, but many other posters prefer 2.02: http://www.psaudio.com/forum/#/discussion/3031/pwd-firmware-version-2.0.2/p1

I find this to be very troubling.  I don't think anyone wants to have to have a DAC in which sound changes that much between firmware changes.  Firmware should change how the DAC behaves or operates, but shouldn't screw up the sound that a person likes so much.  
 
I planned to get the Mk2 upgrade this year, but I like how my Mk1 sounds and I don't want it to all of a sudden become "way too trebly" with the next firmware upgrade.  There is no guarantee that they will continue to support and older "better" sounding firmware in the future, and a person could lose their "favorite sound" in the future.  Now, I know it's possible that I might like the newer firmware sound, but that can change in an instant in a few months with the next update.
 
How do we even know which firmware has the correct sound?  A DAC is supposed to be as neutral and transparent as possible, and now coloration has been introduced into the equation here.

 

[musicman59]

I have my KmII kit installed and running firmware version 2.1.0. I would like to try the version 2.0.2 since many have said it sounds better but I can not find the page for downloading the firmware. Can someone post a link for the page to download the 2.0.2?
Also, I will be writing the SD card ina Macbook Pro. Do I have to format and wrtie the files in the card in certain way to work with the PWD?
Thanks.

 

[jc9394]

I did not format my SD any particular format, use the default comes from PSA.  One issue I have it the new one come with MKII upgrade that does not work.
 
http://psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/3031/pwd-firmware-version-2.0.2

 

[purrin]

 
Quote:

I have my KmII kit installed and running firmware version 2.1.0. I would like to try the version 2.0.2 since many have said it sounds better but I can not find the page for downloading the firmware. Can someone post a link for the page to download the 2.0.2?
Also, I will be writing the SD card ina Macbook Pro. Do I have to format and wrtie the files in the card in certain way to work with the PWD?
Thanks.

 
PM me if you still need the file. I formatted the SD card in FAT and put the file on the root.
 
Quote:

I did not format my SD any particular format, use the default comes from PSA.  One issue I have it the new one come with MKII upgrade that does not work.
 
http://psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/3031/pwd-firmware-version-2.0.2

 
The 2GB SD card PSA sent you will not work if you have an earlier version of the bootloader on your PWD (you have to send the DAC back to PSA to upgrade the bootloader.). However, transferring the contents of the 2GB card to a 1GB card will work. GJ PSA!