[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

The sad thing about these "whose idea was it" Windows 7 commercials is that it was Apple's idea, when they made OS X.  7 is basically Windows with features of OS X added to it.  Its great, cause Windows is finally intuitive.  

I really like Mac OS X, but I have never bought those arguments. Every OS copies features from quite a lot of other's peoples systems, and there is no such thing like the best OS, for example Spaces Apple copied it from Linux, and Ubuntu copies a lot of ideas from Win/mac. It would be actually pretty dumb to try to invent the wheel every time, and no OS is the ultimate innovative that never copies, and in fact OS X has done its fair share of copying, which is not a bad thing. But Win7 is as much Apple's idea as OS X was Microsoft's idea, thinking about with a dualistic approach oversimplifies things IMO.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

pretty funny you say that, because i dropped off my dell m6400 (same as above) to the IT group today so they could reformat it.  problem?  it locks up 50% when computer goes to sleep.  i like that i can shut the cover on the mbp, flip it open, and surf the web and not seemingly have to sit and wait for the wireless connect to re-establish. 
 
if i hook it up to an external monitor (whether a television, projector, or 2nd monitor), i can yank the connection and get back to work.  theres no Fn + F7... no forcing a switch of the display... no restoring of the original resolution.... it just does what you want

WTH!  Your Dell actually works and hasn't disintegrated?  That's crazy talk.  I've been fortunate to be able to pick and choose components to build my PCs and only use Thinkpads that no Macbook could ever hold a candle to in terms of build and durability.  However, if I was like the aforementioned 95% that goes into Best Buy thinking I need to choose from Dell, Acer or HP I think a move to Apple would probably be inevitable so it's quite understandable.  I still think that Apple quality, ease of use and intuitiveness is slightly exaggerated though.  If a person has never used a computer before I don't think OSX has any advantage over Windows 7 for intuitiveness.  The 95% comment had nothing to do w/ marketshare but w/ the needs and competence level of 95% of users.  Sorry if 95% of readers didn't understand his comment.  

  As much as I dislike Apple, on many levels, I can't fault Apple for providing a service and product that many PC makers fail to.  I also can't help feeling everytime a person switches to Apple, the human species devolves a little bit.  

  Perhaps Apple is only 33% culpable for the degree of resentment I have toward them after all.   

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

I really like Mac OS X, but I have never bought those arguments. Every OS copies features from quite a lot of other's peoples systems, and there is no such thing like the best OS, for example Spaces Apple copied it from Linux, and Ubuntu copies a lot of ideas from Win/mac. It would be actually pretty dumb to try to invent the wheel every time, and no OS is the ultimate innovative that never copies, and in fact OS X has done its fair share of copying, which is not a bad thing. But Win7 is as much Apple's idea as OS X was Microsoft's idea, thinking about with a dualistic approach oversimplifies things IMO.

 
QFT
 

 

[ls20]

my lenovo was my favorite portable computer until my mbp.  (the work-issued precision m60, m70, m2300, m90, m6400 i would never buy for personal use)
 
ive built everything from a 386dx40 to 486dx4-100 to p200mmx to athlon 64 machines.  i just dont care for it anymore.  the computer is a means to an end -- information exchange.  it is an amalgamation of little things in osx that makes it better in this regard, in my opinion.  if you dont care about that aspect, more power to you.  i just dont understand the resentment, contempt, and superiority complex over a personal choice in computing. 
 

WTH!  Your Dell actually works and hasn't disintegrated?  That's crazy talk.  I've been fortunate to be able to pick and choose components to build my PCs and only use Thinkpads that no Macbook could ever hold a candle to in terms of build and durability.  However, if I was like the aforementioned 95% that goes into Best Buy thinking I need to choose from Dell, Acer or HP I think a move to Apple would probably be inevitable so it's quite understandable.  I still think that Apple quality, ease of use and intuitiveness is slightly exaggerated though.  If a person has never used a computer before I don't think OSX has any advantage over Windows 7 for intuitiveness.  The 95% comment had nothing to do w/ marketshare but w/ the needs and competence level of 95% of users.  Sorry if 95% of readers didn't understand his comment.  

  As much as I dislike Apple, on many levels, I can't fault Apple for providing a service and product that many PC makers fail to.  I also can't help feeling everytime a person switches to Apple, the human species devolves a little bit.  

  Perhaps Apple is only 33% culpable for the degree of resentment I have toward them after all.   

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

i just dont understand the resentment, contempt, and superiority complex over a personal choice in computing. 

Well, speaking for myself my beef is largely with Apple as a company, their philosophy and the superiority complex they exude.  The attitude and arrogance from the top flows down like a torrential waterfall collecting in a pool of over exuberant fan boys.  My comment on devolution stems from a time of shade tree mechanics, home improvers, hand built PCs and DIYers.  It's more to do w/ the direction of our society and the people blithely along for the ride all out for the quick and easy.  No more satisfaction of taking the harder, road less travelled and learning along the way.  I'll digress as to not get caught up in a lengthy social commentary.  Do what ya like.  Makes no difference to anyone else but you.  Doesn't mean I have to like it or that you have to care.  

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

I really like Mac OS X, but I have never bought those arguments. Every OS copies features from quite a lot of other's peoples systems, and there is no such thing like the best OS, for example Spaces Apple copied it from Linux, and Ubuntu copies a lot of ideas from Win/mac. It would be actually pretty dumb to try to invent the wheel every time, and no OS is the ultimate innovative that never copies, and in fact OS X has done its fair share of copying, which is not a bad thing. But Win7 is as much Apple's idea as OS X was Microsoft's idea, thinking about with a dualistic approach oversimplifies things IMO.

A small correction: What Apple calls "Spaces" comes from XWindows, which is a windowing system that sat atop various UNIX derivatives and is, more or less, the basis for the windowing interface for various operating systems, such as those based on the Linux kernel, the various BSDs, Solaris and others.  Linux (the kernel, as there is no "Linux OS") was designed so that people could have a UNIX derivative without having to deal with extortionate licenses and proprietary code.  Steve Jobs' NeXT had its own windowing system with work-spaces as well.

 

 

[krmathis]

 
Can't wait for Mac OS X 10.7 Lion...

 

[ozz]

Quote:

 
Can't wait for Mac OS X 10.7 Lion...

I have a feeling more than the two of us are anxiously waiting to see what this will bring to the table kinda hope they offer a suite of the new iLife,iWork and OS 10.7.

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

A small correction: What Apple calls "Spaces" comes from XWindows, which is a windowing system that sat atop various UNIX derivatives and is, more or less, the basis for the windowing interface for various operating systems, such as those based on the Linux kernel, the various BSDs, Solaris and others.  Linux (the kernel, as there is no "Linux OS") was designed so that people could have a UNIX derivative without having to deal with extortionate licenses and proprietary code.  Steve Jobs' NeXT had its own windowing system with work-spaces as well.

 

 
Absolutely correct, I was in ranting mode and sleepy so I went with the first example in my head and didn't go into detail

. But I still stand by my point, every OS influences the others, which is not a bad thing but actually what permits the progress we've seen. 

 

[Palpatine]

I always though Microsoft was the epitome of arrogance.

 
Quote:

Well, speaking for myself my beef is largely with Apple as a company, their philosophy and the superiority complex they exude.  The attitude and arrogance from the top flows down like a torrential waterfall collecting in a pool of over exuberant fan boys.  My comment on devolution stems from a time of shade tree mechanics, home improvers, hand built PCs and DIYers.  It's more to do w/ the direction of our society and the people blithely along for the ride all out for the quick and easy.  No more satisfaction of taking the harder, road less travelled and learning along the way.  I'll digress as to not get caught up in a lengthy social commentary.  Do what ya like.  Makes no difference to anyone else but you.  Doesn't mean I have to like it or that you have to care.  

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

I always though Microsoft was the epitome of arrogance.

 
I used to also.  My how times change.  At least I wasn't limited to what I could or couldn't do.  Plus I could swap my CPU and GPU since they weren't soldered on.  I don't like buying things from companies that think they have to protect me from myself.

 

[woof37]

Quote:

Well, speaking for myself my beef is largely with Apple as a company, their philosophy and the superiority complex they exude.  The attitude and arrogance from the top flows down like a torrential waterfall collecting in a pool of over exuberant fan boys. 

This "superiority complex they exude" is a creation of someone's imagination, not fact.  Apple, post-SJ's return, has made a point of creating cool products that just work, and designed them in a way that the young & hip clamor to own them.  I've seen/heard/witnessed 100x more fanboy uber-ism from Windows guys than I ever have from Apple folks, and while there are smug condescending jerks in every sector of the tech industry, the most polite and helpful service guys I've ever come across have been at Apple stores.  I'm an IT professional and have worked on Windows OSes for nearly as long as Windows has existed, so take that for what it's worth.  

 

[woof37]

Quote:

I used to also.  My how times change.  At least I wasn't limited to what I could or couldn't do.  Plus I could swap my CPU and GPU since they weren't soldered on.  I don't like buying things from companies that think they have to protect me from myself.

 
I don't mean to pick on your posts Anaxilus; you just mentioned something that contributes to what (I think) defines the Apple-bashers well.  Apple computers and the Apple OS largely excludes the system builders and power-tweakers from doing their thing.  You, and me since I fit in that category, represent a very small portion of the computer-buying public.  Apples and the Mac OS aren't meant for us...they're meant for the turn-it-on-and-it-works crowd.  All hardware 100% compatible and driver issues pretty much non-existent.  No AV needed.  No real system maintenance needed, unless you consider clicking the "Update" button when prompted as system maintenance.  No browser issues and page crashes and won't-loads like those of us forced to use IE are accustomed to.  No wading through tons of apps that may or may not work properly or crash their systems, and the application availability issues are going to take a severe turn towards the better with the Mac App Store coming online.  For people who don't want to spend their time reading tech blogs and would rather spend it using the computer as a tool, not their hobby, Apples are great things. 
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

This "superiority complex they exude" is a creation of someone's imagination, not fact.  Apple, post-SJ's return, has made a point of creating cool products that just work, and designed them in a way that the young & hip clamor to own them.  I've seen/heard/witnessed 100x more fanboy uber-ism from Windows guys than I ever have from Apple folks, and while there are smug condescending jerks in every sector of the tech industry, the most polite and helpful service guys I've ever come across have been at Apple stores.  I'm an IT professional and have worked on Windows OSes for nearly as long as Windows has existed, so take that for what it's worth.  

Yeah, telling people they are 'holding it wrong' was imaginary.  Agree though, Apple is consistently rated 'A' for Customer Service which it should since their reliability usually hovers around 'C'.  Although not honoring the warranty on electronics owned by smokers I guess is forgiven somehow.  Don't really care since I don't smoke.  I think it is emblematic of the Apple 'Weltenschung' and 'imagined' attitude.  With PCs I agree than Windows fanboyism is more prevalent but so is their market penetration.  Makes sense.  It's the portable segment I find the rabid Apple nutz w/ the exception of the random Mac user that thinks they are better because a Mac will never get a virus.  

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
I don't mean to pick on your posts Anaxilus; you just mentioned something that contributes to what (I think) defines the Apple-bashers well.  Apple computers and the Apple OS largely excludes the system builders and power-tweakers from doing their thing.  You, and me since I fit in that category, represent a very small portion of the computer-buying public.  Apples and the Mac OS aren't meant for us...they're meant for the turn-it-on-and-it-works crowd.  All hardware 100% compatible and driver issues pretty much non-existent.  No AV needed.  No real system maintenance needed, unless you consider clicking the "Update" button when prompted as system maintenance.  No browser issues and page crashes and won't-loads like those of us forced to use IE are accustomed to.  No wading through tons of apps that may or may not work properly or crash their systems, and the application availability issues are going to take a severe turn towards the better with the Mac App Store coming online.  For people who don't want to spend their time reading tech blogs and would rather spend it using the computer as a tool, not their hobby, Apples are great things. 
 

No problem, go ahead!  I completely agree with that!  Personally myself I have had Snow leopard crash, out of the box!  Friends did a few times on the older OS.  His macbook fell apart and stopped working.  The silver keys wear out and turn copper colored.  You are right though, a Mac for a non power user is usually a far better option than a standard Dell, HP or heaven forbid, Sony Vaio.  No argument from me.  I just don't like the bulletproof perfection mythology surrounding Apple, it's false.  I still feel Windows 7 is a more intuitive UI and can't standard that monstrosity of a toolbar on Macs though.  Maybe I'd feel different if I only had 5 applications on it.  I also studied a bit of programming on Macs at university since that's all they used at the time.