[gopanthersgo1]

Question, when it comes to total system lag, people always say oh, well my controller has a lag of 10ms, or my mouse polls at 125hz, causing 8ms of latency, but it's all fine because the monitors is 16ms, given it is refreshing at 60Hz. Doesn't the input lag of other peripherals just add to the overall lag of the system? I could understand audio latency being maybe even beneficial, if it was exactly the latency of the monitors g2g and scaling or similar. (disregarding input rate) If the input lag of the peripherals doesn't add the the time that your movement appears on screen, how does that even make sense?

 

[VXAce]

It's never perfect, ever. The best we can do is limit it and compensate for it. Most players after a certain number of hours behind a setup will already be used to it without even noticing that they have gotten used to it. For someone that changes setups a lot (I play on my laptop and desktop) there is a certain about of "burn in" time I need before I am fully converted back into that setup. My laptop has a different screen, different keyboard, and basically everything is inferior to my desktop. But after about 30 minutes to an hour, I've already figured out the differences and changed a couple of variables in my head to compensate.
 
Milliseconds of difference won't really make that big of a difference on input and output, and often times games will already have a certain amount of compensation for network latency which will give some slack room for peripherals. The lower your latency the better as it will match closer to what the server will expect.
 
Specifically for audio, there isn't really a game that makes audio a necessity down to the millisecond. The shortest amount of time is maybe... half a second, possibly slightly less. Audio is only meant to be a warning and information gathering sense in most games, not the part that should be 100% accurate and perfect. After all you don't shoot with you ears, you shoot with your eyes, your ears tell you the general area to point at.

 

[62ohm]

  You should see a small difference, I mean both GTX780Sli and R9 290 Crossfire are extremely good, and Radeon is known to make less of a difference in certain applications, though it's raw power output is very high. 
 
I am curious why do not you wait for the new Pascal architecture, as from a technical point of view, it should really change some things.

 
I am waiting for Pascal, these 780 SLi are second hand that I got for a really good price some time ago.

 

[NamelessPFG]

I cannot wait for technology to advance enough to make more than 120HZ (fps) displays real! (there still aren't many laptops with these types of displays on market, and the existent displays with such good properties are very expensive)

 
There have been displays with greater than 120 Hz refresh rates for decades; top-tier CRTs could easily top out at 160 Hz, and even recent LCDs have matched or exceeded 120 Hz over the past few years. In fact, it's only with the Asus PG279Q that anyone's claimed an LCD that can hit 165 Hz, and that's technically through overclocking the panel above the usual 144 Hz!
 
Granted, if it's having that high refresh rate in a laptop display that you seek, well, good luck with that. The laptop market is full of crappy screens as is, and even most gaming-grade ones don't include a high refresh rate display as part of the price premium. Quite a shame, really.

 

[Dobrescu George]

   
There have been displays with greater than 120 Hz refresh rates for decades; top-tier CRTs could easily top out at 160 Hz, and even recent LCDs have matched or exceeded 120 Hz over the past few years. In fact, it's only with the Asus PG279Q that anyone's claimed an LCD that can hit 165 Hz, and that's technically through overclocking the panel above the usual 144 Hz!
 
Granted, if it's having that high refresh rate in a laptop display that you seek, well, good luck with that. The laptop market is full of crappy screens as is, and even most gaming-grade ones don't include a high refresh rate display as part of the price premium. Quite a shame, really.

And there is that one laptop, that has a really sweet display, but it costs over 3000$, P870DM from Clevo. It can come with a UHD display, which covers 99% of AdobeRGB

. Dude, that is my next purchase!
 
 
 

  The Latency of a monitor is not measured directly by the refresh rate of the monitor. The actual latency of a monitor is pretty much based on electronic response time, refresh rate and GTG time. For a good monitor, the GTG time has to be below the period for each frame, ghosting is caused by a GTG that is either too near the period (or frametime). A 240Hz latency GTG would be about 4 ms, not good enough for anything, and no where near the handful of nanoseconds for RAM latency and electronic latency.
 
Stuttering is a seperate issue, stuttering is caused by a framerate/frametime being lower/higher than the monitor's and a difference in timing between the displayed images and the eye's frames. G-Sync does not really fix microstutter, but can help to a minor degree with it. If the eye and video is still not in sync, or it is not filling the spaces in between, there will be stuttering to your eyes. G-Sync's main feature is the elimination of screen tearing and supposed input lag. Microstutter is a harder issue to combat and syncing refresh rate of monitor to output will not fix it.
 

 
 
thanks!
 
It seems I had it wrong, and this cleared what latency is in my mind. 
 
Then, it would seem that everything is fine as long as the total latency is not longer than the golden 16ms if you have a 60hz display (at least).
 
But then, I play dota2 with 25-50ms of latency of network sometimes, and I fail to feel the latency, so there might be some algorithms already written to compensate for this. 
 
I really wish I had a top-tier desktop to see how it feels to game on one, but I think that I will stick to laptops for now.
 
 
 
 
 

   
I am waiting for Pascal, these 780 SLi are second hand that I got for a really good price some time ago.

 
 
In theory, Pascal means a lot of changes, I was documenting on it, because it could enable much higher grade graphics on devices with limited power, (like smartphones) while making full desktop devices even faster. 
 
Though I am still planning on getting that P870DM from clevo, even though it has a gtx980 desktop inside (no pascal GPUs), I feel that it would be enough for most UHD 1 monitor gaming...

 

[gopanthersgo1]

It's never perfect, ever. The best we can do is limit it and compensate for it. Most players after a certain number of hours behind a setup will already be used to it without even noticing that they have gotten used to it. For someone that changes setups a lot (I play on my laptop and desktop) there is a certain about of "burn in" time I need before I am fully converted back into that setup. My laptop has a different screen, different keyboard, and basically everything is inferior to my desktop. But after about 30 minutes to an hour, I've already figured out the differences and changed a couple of variables in my head to compensate.

Milliseconds of difference won't really make that big of a difference on input and output, and often times games will already have a certain amount of compensation for network latency which will give some slack room for peripherals. The lower your latency the better as it will match closer to what the server will expect.

Specifically for audio, there isn't really a game that makes audio a necessity down to the millisecond. The shortest amount of time is maybe... half a second, possibly slightly less. Audio is only meant to be a warning and information gathering sense in most games, not the part that should be 100% accurate and perfect. After all you don't shoot with you ears, you shoot with your eyes, your ears tell you the general area to point at.

I know how a few Ms of difference shouldn't change anything, but when I had that crt (talking about screen lag now), I was much more accurate in every game I played, now my monitor feels a bit like a pain even though its latency is real low, and my TV I have hooked up to play mad Max and stuff is terrible. And yeah, audio latency is miniscule, but with my HE-400i I can actually get quite an accurate area to aim my trigger using it alone (like what doors or if someone's behind me). It saves me in lots of close combat in cs:go.

 

[Yazen]

   
There have been displays with greater than 120 Hz refresh rates for decades; top-tier CRTs could easily top out at 160 Hz, and even recent LCDs have matched or exceeded 120 Hz over the past few years. In fact, it's only with the Asus PG279Q that anyone's claimed an LCD that can hit 165 Hz, and that's technically through overclocking the panel above the usual 144 Hz!
 
Granted, if it's having that high refresh rate in a laptop display that you seek, well, good luck with that. The laptop market is full of crappy screens as is, and even most gaming-grade ones don't include a high refresh rate display as part of the price premium. Quite a shame, really.

 
I had an unbranded CRT that would do 1024x768 @ 220 Hz...  Those were the days!
After all these years LCD has yet to catch up.

The weight difference was not an issue so much as the margins to be made from cheaper manf tech... 

 

[VXAce]

I know how a few Ms of difference shouldn't change anything, but when I had that crt (talking about screen lag now), I was much more accurate in every game I played, now my monitor feels a bit like a pain even though its latency is real low, and my TV I have hooked up to play mad Max and stuff is terrible. And yeah, audio latency is miniscule, but with my HE-400i I can actually get quite an accurate area to aim my trigger using it alone (like what doors or if someone's behind me). It saves me in lots of close combat in cs:go.

Most likely a placebo. 

 

[gopanthersgo1]

Most likely a placebo. 

Well the thing was is that I didn't expect it. I only noticed it after I sold the monitor and then started regretting it.

 

[Dobrescu George]

Anyone knows any new interesting games?
 
I am looking forward to paying new PC games, but have a hard time finding any good games lately. I finished SC2, got bored with dota2, and am looking for more. I also finished and liked dying light, but hated both metro2033 and latest fallout.

 

[s1rrah]

  Anyone knows any new interesting games?
 
I am looking forward to paying new PC games, but have a hard time finding any good games lately. I finished SC2, got bored with dota2, and am looking for more. I also finished and liked dying light, but hated both metro2033 and latest fallout.

 
1. Alien: Isolation is a lot of fun ... the production is top notch and the spook factor is through the roof. It's an acquired taste, though as the entire game revolves around evading and avoiding the Alien, which is impossible to kill. 100% survival game. It was my first of such but it really sucked me in. If you have high end GPUS and are playing at 1440p or more, and have a good surround sound setup ... then it's an experience that's hard to equal.
 

 
 
 
2. Shadow Warrior (the new remake): probably the most fun, pure 1st person "shoot/hack 'em up" I've played in the past few years. Absolutely a RIOT ... it's pseudo samauri based and you use a Katana as much as a host of other guns ... can't recommend it highly enough as a brilliant way to blow off steam. There is a semblance of a story as well and the dialogue between yourself and your demon companion is hilarious as all get out:
 

 
 
3. Dragon Age: Inquisition: really fun ... not the pure RPG style of Dragon Age: Origins but more so a mix of classic RPG and more "hack and slash" type stuff. Great voice acting and top notch production across the board. Super fun...
 

 
Cheers!

 

[Duncan]

Very happy now

Bought a Corsair 780T case and 110i GTX cooler, running my 5930K @ 4.4ghz Prime 95 is still 31 degrees c below TJR

Don't really feel the need to push it any further, but - I might

 

[gopanthersgo1]

Anyone knows any new interesting games?

I am looking forward to paying new PC games, but have a hard time finding any good games lately. I finished SC2, got bored with dota2, and am looking for more. I also finished and liked dying light, but hated both metro2033 and latest fallout.

Loving the Mad Max game, and just bought the Witcher 3. If you haven't played the portal series, it's fun, and saints row 3/GTA V were nice. Alan wake is something I've been working on too.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Specifically for audio, there isn't really a game that makes audio a necessity down to the millisecond. The shortest amount of time is maybe... half a second, possibly slightly less. Audio is only meant to be a warning and information gathering sense in most games, not the part that should be 100% accurate and perfect. After all you don't shoot with you ears, you shoot with your eyes, your ears tell you the general area to point at.

 
Unless you take into account rhythm games where getting perfect scores requires ludicrously perfect timing on each and every note, anyway. Wanna get a Marvelous Full Clear on a DDR track? I hope you can hit every arrow ON THE FRAME, 16ms TIMING!
 
There's a reason later releases of such games have calibration modes to try and offset any input lag on the display.
 
With that said, people can adapt to playing those and even fighting games (which might as well be rhythm games in disguise with those pesky one-frame links on combos) on 32-40ms input lag HDTVs, though any more than that and things start feeling REALLY sluggish.
 

And there is that one laptop, that has a really sweet display, but it costs over 3000$, P870DM from Clevo. It can come with a UHD display, which covers 99% of AdobeRGB

. Dude, that is my next purchase!
 
Though I am still planning on getting that P870DM from clevo, even though it has a gtx980 desktop inside (no pascal GPUs), I feel that it would be enough for most UHD 1 monitor gaming...

 
Now here's one I haven't heard of... the UHD display sounds real nice, but does it have G-SYNC like the FHD one I keep seeing? Now that would be REALLY sweet.
 
Too bad they didn't have the balls to put a Cherry MX board in there like the MSI GT80 Titan. Now that's a laptop keyboard that would put ThinkPad owners to shame...
 

I had an unbranded CRT that would do 1024x768 @ 220 Hz...  Those were the days!
After all these years LCD has yet to catch up.

The weight difference was not an issue so much as the margins to be made from cheaper manf tech... 

 
And even the better LCDs for our purposes are plagued with dust, backlight bleed, lack of A-TW polarizers, etc. for our $800. Disgusting.
 
I'm hoping the rise of OLED will put an end to this. LCDs are an inherently flawed display technology anyway, filtering colored pixels out of a backlight rather than having emissive pixels.
 

Anyone knows any new interesting games?
 
I am looking forward to paying new PC games, but have a hard time finding any good games lately. I finished SC2, got bored with dota2, and am looking for more. I also finished and liked dying light, but hated both metro2033 and latest fallout.

 
It may be a year old by now, but I've been blasting my way through Wolfenstein: The New Order recently. It's proving much better than expected, like someone actually made a modern FPS that remembers its roots for once.
 
It also looks like Elite: Dangerous - Horizons is about to drop in a few days, but I don't know if sandboxy space sims are your thing.
 

Very happy now

Bought a Corsair 780T case and 110i GTX cooler, running my 5930K @ 4.4ghz Prime 95 is still 31 degrees c below TJR

Don't really feel the need to push it any further, but - I might

 
Wait, let me get this straight: Haswell-E at 4.4 GHz. Prime95. Not throttling even on an AIO liquid cooler.
 
Something tells me that's not Prime95 28.x with the latest AVX/FMA3 instructions, or maybe the fact that the IHS is soldered on the HEDT chips actually counts for something. Couldn't even use it to stress anymore once I started ramping my 4770K to 4.6 GHz just because of the sheer heat load, and that's on custom water-cooling!

 

[Duncan]

Wait, let me get this straight: Haswell-E at 4.4 GHz. Prime95. Not throttling even on an AIO liquid cooler.

Something tells me that's not Prime95 28.x with the latest AVX/FMA3 instructions, or maybe the fact that the IHS is soldered on the HEDT chips actually counts for something. Couldn't even use it to stress anymore once I started ramping my 4770K to 4.6 GHz just because of the sheer heat load, and that's on custom water-cooling!

28.5 build 2...

Don't get me wrong though, I have more fans in this case than the average NFL team, it really does sound like it is ready for take off - same setup running on air (Nocrua DH-14S with second fan) in a midi case, hitting mid to high 90s...