Zanth
SHAman who knew of Head-Fi ten years prior to its existence
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2001
- Posts
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After dealing with Grado for 5 years now, I have attempted most of the pads and their modifications to try and adjust some of the short-comings of these great phones.
This comparison of the commercial pads: Grado Bowls, Grado Comfies, Sennheiser 19545 pads, flows from my opinions, my ears etc. etc.
I will document my findings regarding the Grado Bowls, the famous Flats, the Comfies modded and stock and finally the newly discovered 19545 Neon yellow pads, modded and stock.
Headphones used: SR60's, RS-1's, HP-1's.
I purchased my SR60's back in '97 and they came with the comfies. I was pleased with the sound, and admittedly had not heard better, so even though some of the highs were shrill at times, the overall tonal quality was so much better than anything I had heard to date, I was not interested in tampering with the sound. Headroom's webpage was in its earliest stages and Goodcans were in the same boat. I received my info from them and bought on the combined recs of these two companies. Grado SR60's - best portable cans bar non. I went with it.
My original comfies are in fine shape...albeit discoloured from the sun. It is this discolouration that led me on my path to pad nirvana. I acquired a new set of comfies from Goodcans and after reading some mods done by members at Headwize, decided to cut a quarter-sized hole in my old pads. I was left with these two sets until I received my RS-1's. They came with the legendary flat pads and the newer bowl pads.
My HP-2's came with some old flat pads, but they were falling apart on the outter edges and so I packed them up and sent them to the buyer of those HP-2's, along with a new pair of bowls.
It was not until recently that I ventured into any new mods/tweaks for my Grados, as I had already come to the conclusion the Flats were the best overall. Enter the Sennheiser 19545's. After feeling nervous about the eventual disintegration of my flat pads, I started my search for a new set of them. Essentially this is going to be ridiculously difficult and so I was also open to other alternatives. The Sennheiser 19545's were an interesting option to investigate.
[size=small]Stock Comfies[/size]:
These pads are stock on the SR60's and I believe on the SR40's. Since the 40's have been discontinued it really isn't an issue anymore. What do the comfies do well? They are more comfortable, that is for sure. Many claimed the flats were akin to sandpaper, tearing the very skin off the cartilege of the ears, leaving nothing behind but a flaking gooey mess of Grado-induced mayhem. Okay an exaggeration, but still, the older pads were remarkable irritating for many. The comfies were designed for comfort in mind. Although many still believe they are unbearable, the comfies do sit nicely on top of the ears and reduce the friction burn caused by the older flat pads.
What they don't do well is permit the full resolution of the Grado line. The top-end is muffled and the bass is bloated. I try not to use too much hyperbole but as many here have discovered, Grados are VERY pad dependent. A switching of the pads can make or break these headphones.
Some may enjoy the rolling off of the highs on the lower models as they can be shrill, especially with bad recordings. I don't mind them on the SR60's, but they just don't cut it on the RS-1's nor the HP-1's.
[size=small]Modded Comfies[/size]:
The mod I used was the quarter sized cut on the driver side. By cutting a hole, the muffle is curtailed, really permitting a new level of resolution. The bass is tighter also and deeper. This I heard on all the Grados used. This pad wasn't for me on the SR60's because of the shrill upper range. The SR60's are incredible headphones for the money, but they aren't meant to be the be all and end all of head-fi. Grados are forward, the SR60's do this well, but the highs need to be controled. The comfies do this for me, without the hole. The hole was a must however, for the RS-1's and the HP-1's. Detail, detail, detail. I don't want to lose what these bad boys are known for. Also, I don't like bloated bass. I want my bass to be as tight as possible, while going as deep as possible. I'm not saying the hole magically provides more bass, but it doesn't obscure the bass the Grados do actually provide. In essence, if one doesn't have bowls or flats on hand...the comfy mod is a good one for higher-end grados, with the added bonus of remaining comfiy!
[size=small]Stock Bowls[/size]:
These are the "newer" pads which are stock the SR 80's and up. Made of the same foam as the older flats, they are rough and tough and on my ears are circumaural as opposed to supra-aural.
I have read that these pads were created in answer to reviewers commenting on Sennheiser HD600's being more enjoyable because they were not as forward. The problem with this creation is that if indeed the pads reamined circumaural, the driver would be further back from the ear and hence would indeed present a sound which was more laid back. Sadly...for those who have ears like me...the driver casing is actually touching my ear, the sound even more forward than the flat pads. This results in an apparent increase in resolution, boomier bass losing the proclaimed tight bass and deeper bass. The highs are so sibilant to these ears, that I can't listen for more than 10-15 minutes without acquiring an ache. These pads are the most controversial of all the pads because so many here hate them, while remaining giant fans of Grado and the signature sound. Many have completely written Grado off because of these pads. There are those however, who maintain these pads are the best thing to happen to Grados since the introduction of the Reference line. John Grado is among them as is Tyll from Headroom. I don't hear it at all, and I am not alone. Some mods including socks, super glue, liquid cement etc., have been used to take care of the shrills. I have not tried them because to me they are simply a bum product. Bowls should be "canned" and the flats put back into production, my final take on the matter. Sadly this will not happen. As has been previously stated, the bowls are the ones which are sticking around, perhaps because John is hard of hearing now? He likes the over-the-top brightness? Or maybe his ears are much larger than mine and they indeed are supra-aural for him. Whatever the case may be, these bowls never touch the RS-1's.
One interesting advantage of the HP-1000's I have used with all the pads is that they are not as critical of the pads used. Although the flats do sound better with them, the bowls are not "bad" and I attribute this to the neutral character of the cans. The presentation is not as forward and the bass is more linear and tight as compared to the present line. This permits the driver to be placed closer or further away from the ear without much of a difference in sound. Thank goodness...I WAS using the bowls exclusively on the HP-1's so I would not wear the flats out.
[size=small]Stock Flats[/size]:
Not technically stock anymore, these pads are the crown jewel of Grado pads. Discontinued in favour of the bowls, I among others, feel John did us all a great disservice. Before I get into the sound aspect of these pads, I want to say a few things about production. Head-fiers have contacted John about getting the flats back into production and either selling them separately or including them with the bowls with all new phone purchases. I mean...we already lost the box on the RS-1's right? Why not give us some extra pads? Well the deal is this...John doesn't like their sound. John uses his ears as the SOLE critiquing device. He makes what he likes, 'nuff said. What about Headroom or another party? Headroom has been told a minimum of 10 000 pads would need to be purchased at a cost of $2.50 each. Pricey just for the initial run....how long would it be until they sold all these pads? Far too long for them and understandably so. Thus we are left with used and NOS Flats to get the true bliss Grados can provide.
They are true supraaural pads and on my ears, place the driver further back than the bowls, and equidistant to the comfies. This position permits fine detail and a controled bass, albeit slightly bloated compared to the bowls when positioned supraaurally. The bass is not boomy though, compared with the bowls on my ears (I think this is the circumaural and "chamber" effect of the soundwaves forcing air into my ear canal). One quickly hears a decrease in shrill highs and sibilance, replaced by wonderfully extended and non-fatiguing highs, the sweet Grado mid-range (on the current line) and again, a complete deep bass that is only slightly too boomy. Of course, to my ears, the HP-1 with the flats is currently my favourite headphone and seems nearly perfect across the sound spectrum. Everything just sounds "right." Although not made of the same comfy foam as the comfies, because Grados don't pinch the head, I find their supraaural positioning to be very comfortable with minimal friction burn as compared to the bowls. I listen with the flats for up to 10 hours at a time never feeling the need to take them off.
I truly wish everyone could get a taste of these pads, but I know this will never be the case. I am fortunate but don't fret too much!!! Sennheiser has come to our rescue.
[size=small]Sennheiser 19545's[/size]:
These pads were just recently discovered and thus far have been a hit. Although the colour leaves much to be desired, the comfort level of these babies surpasses even that of the Grado comfies. Soft...plush, a true pleasure to have on the ears. They are a bit thicker on the perimeter than the comfies, which is great because this is where our ears sit
The extra padding really goes a long way and makes those marathon listening sessions pass by without even a hint of chafing. Since Grados are known as the uncomfortable audiophile brand, it is with great pleasure that I recommend the Sennheiser 19545's to those without the flats on hand.
Now for the sound. These pads are the closest thing to the flats as one can get. Mods aside, I think outta the package they sound great. The highs sound "right." No sibilance, no shrill highs, just good sounding top end. The positioning is virtually indistiguishable to the flats which is logical as they are very close in dimensions. The bass is also very similar to the flats, plumper than the bowls but not overly boomy. Deep as well. without the quarter mod, the sound is slightly muffed but not as much as when the stock comfies are used. I find also there is a more confined sound, the soundstage is stripped of a few feet to the sides of the stage. This is being overly picky, but I want to express this as these pads are presently the only alternative to used or NOS flats or going with bowls or comfies. Cutting a quarter sized hole, which stretches to about the size of a silver dollar, really does well for the overall sound. The sound expands out more, correcting the flaw in the soundstage. The bass is less boomy, and the highs are sweet and well extended. The characteristic resonance at 3kHz is a bit more pronounced which I attribute to the fact that the driver is actually closer to the ear than with the flats. Otherwise they sound damn good.
I am going to buy a few more sets of these pads just in case Sennheiser decides to discontinue these. Honestly, before selling a pair of Grados, buy this cheap tweak and test the sound out, you may be pleasantly surprised. Pads make a world of difference on the current line. I found they really made the SR-60's sing, taking care of some of the top end shrills as well as controlling the bottom end, which was overly plump before. On the SR-60's there was a noticable improvement but nothing to as extreme as going from bowls to Sennheiser 19545's on the RS-1's. The HP-1's again didn't seem to be affected as much. The neutral characteristic of these phones is a god-send. Bowls, Flats, Modded Comfies, Sennheiser 19545's, not much of a worry as long as there is a hole.
In recapping, on an intrascoring system:
Comfort:
Sennheiser 19545 + Modded: 4
Comfies + Modded: 3
Flats: 2
Bowls: 1
Highs:
Flats: 4
Sennheiser 19545 Modded: 3.5
Sennheiser 19545: 3
Comfies Modded: 2.5
Comfies: 2
Bowls: 1
Bass:
Flats: 4
Sennheiser 19545 Modded: 3.5
Sennheiser 19545: 3
Comfies Modded: 2.5
Comfies: 2
Bowls: 1
Soundstage:
Flats: 4
Sennheiser 19545 Modded: 3.5
Sennheiser 19545: 3
Bowls: 2
Comfies Modded: 1.5
Comfies: 1
Good luck with your pad selection!
This comparison of the commercial pads: Grado Bowls, Grado Comfies, Sennheiser 19545 pads, flows from my opinions, my ears etc. etc.
I will document my findings regarding the Grado Bowls, the famous Flats, the Comfies modded and stock and finally the newly discovered 19545 Neon yellow pads, modded and stock.
Headphones used: SR60's, RS-1's, HP-1's.
I purchased my SR60's back in '97 and they came with the comfies. I was pleased with the sound, and admittedly had not heard better, so even though some of the highs were shrill at times, the overall tonal quality was so much better than anything I had heard to date, I was not interested in tampering with the sound. Headroom's webpage was in its earliest stages and Goodcans were in the same boat. I received my info from them and bought on the combined recs of these two companies. Grado SR60's - best portable cans bar non. I went with it.
My original comfies are in fine shape...albeit discoloured from the sun. It is this discolouration that led me on my path to pad nirvana. I acquired a new set of comfies from Goodcans and after reading some mods done by members at Headwize, decided to cut a quarter-sized hole in my old pads. I was left with these two sets until I received my RS-1's. They came with the legendary flat pads and the newer bowl pads.
My HP-2's came with some old flat pads, but they were falling apart on the outter edges and so I packed them up and sent them to the buyer of those HP-2's, along with a new pair of bowls.
It was not until recently that I ventured into any new mods/tweaks for my Grados, as I had already come to the conclusion the Flats were the best overall. Enter the Sennheiser 19545's. After feeling nervous about the eventual disintegration of my flat pads, I started my search for a new set of them. Essentially this is going to be ridiculously difficult and so I was also open to other alternatives. The Sennheiser 19545's were an interesting option to investigate.
[size=small]Stock Comfies[/size]:
These pads are stock on the SR60's and I believe on the SR40's. Since the 40's have been discontinued it really isn't an issue anymore. What do the comfies do well? They are more comfortable, that is for sure. Many claimed the flats were akin to sandpaper, tearing the very skin off the cartilege of the ears, leaving nothing behind but a flaking gooey mess of Grado-induced mayhem. Okay an exaggeration, but still, the older pads were remarkable irritating for many. The comfies were designed for comfort in mind. Although many still believe they are unbearable, the comfies do sit nicely on top of the ears and reduce the friction burn caused by the older flat pads.
What they don't do well is permit the full resolution of the Grado line. The top-end is muffled and the bass is bloated. I try not to use too much hyperbole but as many here have discovered, Grados are VERY pad dependent. A switching of the pads can make or break these headphones.
Some may enjoy the rolling off of the highs on the lower models as they can be shrill, especially with bad recordings. I don't mind them on the SR60's, but they just don't cut it on the RS-1's nor the HP-1's.
[size=small]Modded Comfies[/size]:
The mod I used was the quarter sized cut on the driver side. By cutting a hole, the muffle is curtailed, really permitting a new level of resolution. The bass is tighter also and deeper. This I heard on all the Grados used. This pad wasn't for me on the SR60's because of the shrill upper range. The SR60's are incredible headphones for the money, but they aren't meant to be the be all and end all of head-fi. Grados are forward, the SR60's do this well, but the highs need to be controled. The comfies do this for me, without the hole. The hole was a must however, for the RS-1's and the HP-1's. Detail, detail, detail. I don't want to lose what these bad boys are known for. Also, I don't like bloated bass. I want my bass to be as tight as possible, while going as deep as possible. I'm not saying the hole magically provides more bass, but it doesn't obscure the bass the Grados do actually provide. In essence, if one doesn't have bowls or flats on hand...the comfy mod is a good one for higher-end grados, with the added bonus of remaining comfiy!
[size=small]Stock Bowls[/size]:
These are the "newer" pads which are stock the SR 80's and up. Made of the same foam as the older flats, they are rough and tough and on my ears are circumaural as opposed to supra-aural.
I have read that these pads were created in answer to reviewers commenting on Sennheiser HD600's being more enjoyable because they were not as forward. The problem with this creation is that if indeed the pads reamined circumaural, the driver would be further back from the ear and hence would indeed present a sound which was more laid back. Sadly...for those who have ears like me...the driver casing is actually touching my ear, the sound even more forward than the flat pads. This results in an apparent increase in resolution, boomier bass losing the proclaimed tight bass and deeper bass. The highs are so sibilant to these ears, that I can't listen for more than 10-15 minutes without acquiring an ache. These pads are the most controversial of all the pads because so many here hate them, while remaining giant fans of Grado and the signature sound. Many have completely written Grado off because of these pads. There are those however, who maintain these pads are the best thing to happen to Grados since the introduction of the Reference line. John Grado is among them as is Tyll from Headroom. I don't hear it at all, and I am not alone. Some mods including socks, super glue, liquid cement etc., have been used to take care of the shrills. I have not tried them because to me they are simply a bum product. Bowls should be "canned" and the flats put back into production, my final take on the matter. Sadly this will not happen. As has been previously stated, the bowls are the ones which are sticking around, perhaps because John is hard of hearing now? He likes the over-the-top brightness? Or maybe his ears are much larger than mine and they indeed are supra-aural for him. Whatever the case may be, these bowls never touch the RS-1's.
One interesting advantage of the HP-1000's I have used with all the pads is that they are not as critical of the pads used. Although the flats do sound better with them, the bowls are not "bad" and I attribute this to the neutral character of the cans. The presentation is not as forward and the bass is more linear and tight as compared to the present line. This permits the driver to be placed closer or further away from the ear without much of a difference in sound. Thank goodness...I WAS using the bowls exclusively on the HP-1's so I would not wear the flats out.
[size=small]Stock Flats[/size]:
Not technically stock anymore, these pads are the crown jewel of Grado pads. Discontinued in favour of the bowls, I among others, feel John did us all a great disservice. Before I get into the sound aspect of these pads, I want to say a few things about production. Head-fiers have contacted John about getting the flats back into production and either selling them separately or including them with the bowls with all new phone purchases. I mean...we already lost the box on the RS-1's right? Why not give us some extra pads? Well the deal is this...John doesn't like their sound. John uses his ears as the SOLE critiquing device. He makes what he likes, 'nuff said. What about Headroom or another party? Headroom has been told a minimum of 10 000 pads would need to be purchased at a cost of $2.50 each. Pricey just for the initial run....how long would it be until they sold all these pads? Far too long for them and understandably so. Thus we are left with used and NOS Flats to get the true bliss Grados can provide.
They are true supraaural pads and on my ears, place the driver further back than the bowls, and equidistant to the comfies. This position permits fine detail and a controled bass, albeit slightly bloated compared to the bowls when positioned supraaurally. The bass is not boomy though, compared with the bowls on my ears (I think this is the circumaural and "chamber" effect of the soundwaves forcing air into my ear canal). One quickly hears a decrease in shrill highs and sibilance, replaced by wonderfully extended and non-fatiguing highs, the sweet Grado mid-range (on the current line) and again, a complete deep bass that is only slightly too boomy. Of course, to my ears, the HP-1 with the flats is currently my favourite headphone and seems nearly perfect across the sound spectrum. Everything just sounds "right." Although not made of the same comfy foam as the comfies, because Grados don't pinch the head, I find their supraaural positioning to be very comfortable with minimal friction burn as compared to the bowls. I listen with the flats for up to 10 hours at a time never feeling the need to take them off.
I truly wish everyone could get a taste of these pads, but I know this will never be the case. I am fortunate but don't fret too much!!! Sennheiser has come to our rescue.
[size=small]Sennheiser 19545's[/size]:
These pads were just recently discovered and thus far have been a hit. Although the colour leaves much to be desired, the comfort level of these babies surpasses even that of the Grado comfies. Soft...plush, a true pleasure to have on the ears. They are a bit thicker on the perimeter than the comfies, which is great because this is where our ears sit
Now for the sound. These pads are the closest thing to the flats as one can get. Mods aside, I think outta the package they sound great. The highs sound "right." No sibilance, no shrill highs, just good sounding top end. The positioning is virtually indistiguishable to the flats which is logical as they are very close in dimensions. The bass is also very similar to the flats, plumper than the bowls but not overly boomy. Deep as well. without the quarter mod, the sound is slightly muffed but not as much as when the stock comfies are used. I find also there is a more confined sound, the soundstage is stripped of a few feet to the sides of the stage. This is being overly picky, but I want to express this as these pads are presently the only alternative to used or NOS flats or going with bowls or comfies. Cutting a quarter sized hole, which stretches to about the size of a silver dollar, really does well for the overall sound. The sound expands out more, correcting the flaw in the soundstage. The bass is less boomy, and the highs are sweet and well extended. The characteristic resonance at 3kHz is a bit more pronounced which I attribute to the fact that the driver is actually closer to the ear than with the flats. Otherwise they sound damn good.
I am going to buy a few more sets of these pads just in case Sennheiser decides to discontinue these. Honestly, before selling a pair of Grados, buy this cheap tweak and test the sound out, you may be pleasantly surprised. Pads make a world of difference on the current line. I found they really made the SR-60's sing, taking care of some of the top end shrills as well as controlling the bottom end, which was overly plump before. On the SR-60's there was a noticable improvement but nothing to as extreme as going from bowls to Sennheiser 19545's on the RS-1's. The HP-1's again didn't seem to be affected as much. The neutral characteristic of these phones is a god-send. Bowls, Flats, Modded Comfies, Sennheiser 19545's, not much of a worry as long as there is a hole.
In recapping, on an intrascoring system:
Comfort:
Sennheiser 19545 + Modded: 4
Comfies + Modded: 3
Flats: 2
Bowls: 1
Highs:
Flats: 4
Sennheiser 19545 Modded: 3.5
Sennheiser 19545: 3
Comfies Modded: 2.5
Comfies: 2
Bowls: 1
Bass:
Flats: 4
Sennheiser 19545 Modded: 3.5
Sennheiser 19545: 3
Comfies Modded: 2.5
Comfies: 2
Bowls: 1
Soundstage:
Flats: 4
Sennheiser 19545 Modded: 3.5
Sennheiser 19545: 3
Bowls: 2
Comfies Modded: 1.5
Comfies: 1
Good luck with your pad selection!
