[ulsanman]

I think hype is only relevant if you don't personally agree with what has been said and since hearing is a deeply personal experience there must , ergo, always be hype!!!

 

[antonyfirst]

No, it's relevant for people searching for information and relying on it.

 

[Zalithian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobaccoRoad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally, I don't think any IEMs are worth the money. I'm sure no one thinks IE8 is 10x better than CX300. I once did a school presentation on high-end headphones and my classmates thought I went mad with the money. While everyone agreed the sound was significantly better than stocks, none of them thought it was worth the price tag. The demand for high-ends are so high that companies can price it whatever they want, it's still gonna sell. And as for whether it's worth the money, I think that obviously depends on how often you listen to music. If my IEM lasted for about 3-4 years, I would say it was definitely worth the investment...did I just contradict myself?

I'm not really sure what your point is at the moment. I think you nullified any point you may have had by yourself. Buying expensive IEMS is no different than buying an expensive cell phone or buying a big plasma tv. Whether or not the item is worth the price tag is always dependent on a multitude of factors, with the primary factor being how often the product is used. Now, a 62 inch HDTV may cost 4x more than a 32 inch non-hd tv, but for most people it's not worth paying $2000 instead of $500. Note that these prices are arbitrary and merely being used to illustrate my point.

I feel this is somewhat of a pointless discussion. Is it really news that people who listen to music often or are passionate about it are willing to pay more for a medium to deliver the music to them? How is that different than someone who watches a lot of TV feeling it's okay to spend $2000 on a huge tv, or someone who plays video games buying a $400 video card?

I honestly don't feel this thread began as ill intentioned, however it was a topic which really had no way to go but down.

 

[tstarn06]

I agree. It was a doomed ship from the start, and we were dumb enough to board. The heck with hype, it's a much to esoteric (and unresolvable) topic.

Now, I just got this new pair of $25 IEMs, and you won't believe ...

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by barleyguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I've been thinking that the JH13 thread needs a stub warning like Wikipedia has: This thread is a stub. It does not contain any first hand information, since these IEM's have not been released yet. It will be filled in with first hand information and/or first hand hype when the product is released.

Actually, from what I recall, there is first hand info from people that heard the universal version at Can Jam. Not that it is an accurate reflection of the final product, and not that people aren't excited. They seem to be. Are some people taking it to far, well, yes, as is typical anywhere with anything.

People did get on the OP about the thread being an appreication thread without owning them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameboy115 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think hype can conclude to a few reason 1. The gap between middle iem and high end gap is diminishing.Sometimes middle level end could have chance to win over high end in either of the bass/ soundstage/ treble which some people prefer one over other by his taste. If you had no love to er4 as you found it lack of bass and deep low end note, you may prefer listen at IE7 instead. 2. Untrained ear. Comment based on personal taste rather than what it is right. That is nothing wrong as musics is personal joy. Some one love bloated bass.The worst match is you believe to the wrong people reivew which have totally different taste with you, then pull the trigger. 3. Brun in effect. No one can ensure each IEM would head to same way after burn in. 4. Right tips and a get a decent seal, without that, even the greatest IEM in world sounds thin and unnatural. For me, it often take a few days to find a best spot, I know people may give up before that.

I agree, but am not sure exactly what you mean with #3. Another way to say #1 is preferred sound signature, and another way to say #2 is perception. And I think #4 is so so important.

Here are some more:
5. Source music and components. Different genres, bit rates, and source components will change what people think of certain headphones. I did not think my IE8 sounded good from the HiFiMan 801 DAP via the E+, way too bassy with the bass boost off.

6. Ear/brain differences. Even with all things being the same, some people will just plain hear things differently. And extreme example would be someone that has high end hearing loss might not think a headphone sounds dark because that is how they all sound to that person. It is a different sense, but my wife and I can't agree on some of the weird colors of my dress shirts, is it brown or green? Is it tan or grey? And then put it in a different type of light and the color looks different.

7. Volume level. My IEMs sound more dynamic when I turn the volume up and I can get more into the music. But I normally listen at lower volumes (IMO the IE8 does a great job of maintaining it's sound at lower volumes than my other IEMs). So if I hear one headphone at one volume level and compare it to another headphone at another volume level, I will be comparing apples to oranges.

8. Writing/reading vocabulary, comprehension, and context. Not the same across a nationality, much less the multinational population on here. I can say soundstage and someone will think headstage. It is hard to tell if someone is sarcastic on here because we don't have the verbal and facial clues. How excited is someone really? Is the poster just a positive person that always has something good to say, or are they bitter with hate and will over exaggerate the bad? Hard to tell.

9. Memory. How did that really sound when I heard it a day ago, a week ago, a month ago. Hard to remember (harder for some than others), plus when people do refer to HPs they have not heard and are regurgitating what others have said, do they really remember the correct info?

Feel free to add anything that was left out.

So, there are many factors that can make my experience much different than yours, and there could be a bunch lost in translation. Hype? I don't think people come here to hype things for the most part (except voltage) unless they are shills. There are plenty of great reasons posted as to why certain groups would hype things, possibly even unknowingly (or not their intention). But then how can we really know.

 

[TobaccoRoad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalithian /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not really sure what your point is at the moment. I think you nullified any point you may have had by yourself. Buying expensive IEMS is no different than buying an expensive cell phone or buying a big plasma tv. Whether or not the item is worth the price tag is always dependent on a multitude of factors, with the primary factor being how often the product is used. Now, a 62 inch HDTV may cost 4x more than a 32 inch non-hd tv, but for most people it's not worth paying $2000 instead of $500. Note that these prices are arbitrary and merely being used to illustrate my point. I feel this is somewhat of a pointless discussion. Is it really news that people who listen to music often or are passionate about it are willing to pay more for a medium to deliver the music to them? How is that different than someone who watches a lot of TV feeling it's okay to spend $2000 on a huge tv, or someone who plays video games buying a $400 video card? I honestly don't feel this thread began as ill intentioned, however it was a topic which really had no way to go but down.

I can't disagree with everything you said. Some of these posts were beyond my understanding which led me to believe my whole opinions were contradictions, or just plain lost. As for being compared to TVs, while everything you said is true, majority of people don't agree because they think visual quality is much easier to distinguish than sound quality, and I happen to be one of them. Actually that was my main reason for this thread. Contrary to members' advice, personally I found it difficult to find the right IEM for me from solely researching on Head-Fi. While that may not be your case, I can't easily distinguish between honest, accurate review and hype, shrill, random posts, whatever you wanna call it. Fortunately there were many experienced audiophiles in this thread who helped me a lot with clear explanations.

I apologize if my reasons weren't what you wanted to discuss about, but in the end I'm just trying to find a perfect IEM for me, thanks.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're right. I should have said it was hype to me. Of course it wouldn't be hype to anyone else who thought they were in the same league as the W3.

From what I recall, HPA stated the PFEs were close to his W3s. He was stating it in a technical way from how I read it, as we all know they have very different sound signatures. He also uses high end amps. I think they are worth about half the IE8, which I think is about on par with the W3. How do ya like that hype

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobaccoRoad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally, I don't think any IEMs are worth the money. I'm sure no one thinks IE8 is 10x better than CX300. I once did a school presentation on high-end headphones and my classmates thought I went mad with the money. While everyone agreed the sound was significantly better than stocks, none of them thought it was worth the price tag. The demand for high-ends are so high that companies can price it whatever they want, it's still gonna sell. And as for whether it's worth the money, I think that obviously depends on how often you listen to music. If my IEM lasted for about 3-4 years, I would say it was definitely worth the investment...did I just contradict myself?

What one is willing to spend is personal. Are super cars really worth the extra money? Is a Porsche that can do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds worth the money when you are just driving to the office? Yet some people buy a Porsche that can do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.

I am glad I bought my IE8, and actually would pay more for it I lost mine. All subjective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. It was a doomed ship from the start, and we were dumb enough to board. The heck with hype, it's a much to esoteric (and unresolvable) topic. Now, I just got this new pair of $25 IEMs, and you won't believe ...

Doomed, were doomed I tell ya!

Oh, $25 IEMs that are better than the JH13, wow!!!! (joke of course)

 

[Zalithian]

It's not a problem. IEMS aren't for everyone though, and if you find yourself consistently disappointed with them maybe they're just not for you. Perhaps you're not getting a proper seal, but there's no way for me to verify that. It's possible you're getting a good seal and just prefer something with a bigger sound.

Someone tried arguing with me last night about how speakers are always the best and using headphones was dumb. In my personal living conditions it's not really good if I use speakers for a few reasons. I prefer not having to worry about if I'm bothering someone or not. When I was on campus it was a big concern - whether or not I would be bothering others, so I stick to headphones and iems. Also, most of my listening is done on portable players. I don't have a dedicated home rig, great sound card or anything else so I feel it would be pointless to spend money on good speakers despite the fact they are better overall. They're not practical for me.

So, I guess what I'm saying is - IEMS may just be something not meant for you. I've really tried to like some bands and stuff people hyped up or really loved, but no matter what I just found I couldn't like said band. Maybe if you have full sized cans that you like the sound of people would be able to offer IEMS with a similar sound signature? My apologies if this has been stated or asked previously.

Either way, don't force yourself to like IEMS just because they're hyped up. Plenty of people don't like certain things, and if you find yourself not liking IEMS... it's nothing to be upset about. I myself currently prefer IEMS to headphones simply because they're more practical to me.

 

[rock&rollfrenchfries]

the only thing that concerns me is how much these iems actually cost to make. when lots of them are in fact the retail price of a really nice tv or snowboard or a really really good ounce of bud. yes it is hype. just how much money went directly into somebody else's pocket for a product that didn't NEARLY cost them as much to deliver or just doesn't measure up to what they say it's worth.

 

[decay]

...
Did you forget R&D cost?
How about the law of diminishing returns?
I'd rather care about the listening experience and the durability of the product
than what it's made from. You pay however much you are willing to pay for
aural pleasures (JH13Pro, aural sex, mmm...)

 

[gameboy115]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, from what I recall, there is first hand info from people that heard the universal version at Can Jam. Not that it is an accurate reflection of the final product, and not that people aren't excited. They seem to be. Are some people taking it to far, well, yes, as is typical anywhere with anything. People did get on the OP about the thread being an appreication thread without owning them. I agree, but am not sure exactly what you mean with #3. Another way to say #1 is preferred sound signature, and another way to say #2 is perception. And I think #4 is so so important. Here are some more: 5. Source music and components. Different genres, bit rates, and source components will change what people think of certain headphones. I did not think my IE8 sounded good from the HiFiMan 801 DAP via the E+, way too bassy with the bass boost off. 6. Ear/brain differences. Even with all things being the same, some people will just plain hear things differently. And extreme example would be someone that has high end hearing loss might not think a headphone sounds dark because that is how they all sound to that person. It is a different sense, but my wife and I can't agree on some of the weird colors of my dress shirts, is it brown or green? Is it tan or grey? And then put it in a different type of light and the color looks different. 7. Volume level. My IEMs sound more dynamic when I turn the volume up and I can get more into the music. But I normally listen at lower volumes (IMO the IE8 does a great job of maintaining it's sound at lower volumes than my other IEMs). So if I hear one headphone at one volume level and compare it to another headphone at another volume level, I will be comparing apples to oranges. 8. Writing/reading vocabulary, comprehension, and context. Not the same across a nationality, much less the multinational population on here. I can say soundstage and someone will think headstage. It is hard to tell if someone is sarcastic on here because we don't have the verbal and facial clues. How excited is someone really? Is the poster just a positive person that always has something good to say, or are they bitter with hate and will over exaggerate the bad? Hard to tell. 9. Memory. How did that really sound when I heard it a day ago, a week ago, a month ago. Hard to remember (harder for some than others), plus when people do refer to HPs they have not heard and are regurgitating what others have said, do they really remember the correct info? Feel free to add anything that was left out. So, there are many factors that can make my experience much different than yours, and there could be a bunch lost in translation. Hype? I don't think people come here to hype things for the most part (except voltage) unless they are shills. There are plenty of great reasons posted as to why certain groups would hype things, possibly even unknowingly (or not their intention). But then how can we really know.

So agree with pt 5,7,9. Some earphone is required to use high vol to listen at. For stance, UM3X is an IEM not good at high vol listening because of its up front presentation.

For your pt 9, even I am trying to be objective when I am listening at new IEM I own now, I know I am little biased from my fading memory with IE8. Like I would always feel IE8 soundstage is the best, but at the same time I have a hard time to decide how much better IE8 compared to new toys

My pt 4 is coming from what I read at other forum, people said even same IEM could differ after using different vol, music to burn in. I think no one could prove this unless you have a lot of money to buy 3 pair same IEM for testing

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameboy115 /img/forum/go_quote.gif My pt 4 is coming from what I read at other forum, people said even same IEM could differ after using different vol, music to burn in. I think no one could prove this unless you have a lot of money to buy 3 pair same IEM for testing

Yea, case in point, HeadphoneAddict had the same milestones I experienced during IE8 burn in, but it was about 100-150 hours longer to reach than for my IE8.

So, are people trying to hype headphones, or is it just happening? I guess maybe a little of the first, mostly just the 2nd. Or as was pointed out here earlier, if someone disagrees with a posters rave from what they heard, it is hype, whereas their own rave is not hype!

 

[chris_ah1]

I must admit though that despite FOTM syndrome, I haven't ever heard a really really bad IEM or earbud that I actually personally bought.
Even the $20 soundmagic PL30s do what they do well and I would say people's impressions are pretty accurate for that.
Same with the impressions of the RE2 from head-direct.

As for avoiding FOTM and how people process sound (part of 'burn in'), it seems that UM2s, SE530, ety er4 and IE8 are the most reliable impressions out there.
Having used them myself I must concur with both the high points people suggest and the low points.

The problem with any new product is that people are going to be overly sensitive and underly sensitive at the same time with respect to its SQ and other features. As time goes on people realise more (ironing out under-sensitivity) and people readjust their sweeping opinions or changes (dealing with over-sensitivity). It's just how aggregating opinions work - especially when you come across something for the first time.

Either way, whether it's the NE7, PFE, turbines, soundmagics, head-direct, UM3x, W3, SE530, IE8, triple fis or whatever you care to think of they all sound good in their own ways, and over time we come to an accurate feeling about them. None of them are bad, in fact to me they all sound rather marvellous in their own ways.

The biggest area of differentiation is fit and microphonics, not in SQ. Yes there are SQ issues and differences and to me a UM3x is more timbrally correct than an IE8 or ety er4 at least for classical music, but it doesn't make the others any less worthy of praise, even if that praise is over-exulted.

Whatever IEM you choose or whatever IEM becomes FOTM it is always going to be subject to several things:
a) people justifying their immediate purchase.
b) people pissed off with their purchase with no need to justify
c) people realising that they might have been too rash initially as they realise that every IEM is merely a choice or compromise - between hyper detail and treble, balanced neutrality/accuracy, timbral correctness, and stomping bass. AS you spend time with an IEM you realise that it might not have the initial features you wanted, but it does do other things well to...but due to the nature of physics you cannot have an IEM that does it all.

Personally, I prefer a correct timbre rather than hyper detail, excess low end or even pure ruthless balance. I like to feel I'm actually at the performance. No real-life performance gives sound that you would hear from a monitoring IEM.

However it is interesting that UE10 and UE11 seem to be very consistent in their reports being akin to the difference between HD600 and HD650.
The quiet flavours - SE530, UM2, UEseries are often the ones with the most reliable opinions.
You'll will always get errors in judgement with the IEMS with the most flurry of activity.
- especially with the difference in tips used and whether people find the right fit.

 

[jinx20001]

nice

 

[shigzeo]

so... in the end... should i just change the name of the 'turbine appreciation thread'? at the time, appreciation threads were not anathema so i used it instead of the other thread about them which had a lot of praise in it but was titled 'turbine thinggy' as it was obvious that the op was scared to praise or use a non-negative word when it came to a monster brand item.

again, if this thread was started because of a particular monster thread and one person's hate for the turbine, i don't see the point. however, i do see the point of 'appreciation threads' being exclusive. to some extent. it is a forum. there are those who are going to love a phone and want to chime in about it. so an appreciation thread is fine.

it is the same in any forum. in my bicycle forums, people make 'marinoni praise' threads and 'hate trek' threads. it is the same thing. we are free to make other threads. if enough people think the product is overpraised, then they are free to make a more objective thread. it is not a contained atmosphere.

i wonder why this thread was not aimed at other threads i have made for instance the victor fx500 review or the sleek audio custom appreciation thread? the turbine are not my favourite phone, but i stand by my opinion that at 150$, they are a great buy for sound and other reasons. firstly, not plastic but housed in nicely shaped brass and aluminium. great box, decent case. great phones.

my original thread is no more inflammatory than any other post. now, i could care less if it was, but i think the point of this thread bashing 'hype' makes no sense. in every thread in this forum there is hype. people use hype and hyperbole all the time. how many times a day do i hear the same people saying 'that was the FUNNIEST thing i have ever heard?' - i fail to see how it is different. if we shut down appreciation threads, we had better do the same in the lounge where people talk about movies, tv shows, food etc.

here is the offense word for word
Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, Monster, one of Headfi's least favourite companies outed a great earphone: Monster Turbine. They have heaps of competition from higher and lower priced products but outperform many of my former favourites. Why? The bass does not have the typical bleed that is characteristic of underdriven dynamic phones. It remains nimble in the treble and technical and clean in the mids. At 150$ there is no inner earphone that to my knowledge is housed completely in high quality metals: brass and aluminium. Everything about the phone reeks of quality with the exception of strain reliefs on the headphone jack and an overly energetic cable that needs restrainers to stay quiet. Sound = Fab Looks = Fab but bordering on bling Packaging = Unequalled this side of 300$ Are they the best? I don't think anyone expects them to be the best, but for an engaging listen that is non-fatiguing yet detailed and lively, I am unconvinced that for the price, there is a better phone on the market. I hope this thread will pick up steam as these phones deserve a dedicated thread that is not timid because of the Monster name. Thank you Monster for making such a great earphone! Please send me links to reviews that you have found to be helpful and I will try to update this title thread with those reviews.