[kkugel]

For anyone wondering why dampers are a bad thing: Air changes the medium while passing through them, slowing down and kind of destroying impulse. For a clean sound, we want sharp attack and nice decay. Sharp attack does not sound sharp but rather very low-noise, which makes the sound more clean and lush. Removing dampers sharpens attack.

 

[aaf evo]

It doesn't cost $6k to make a Traillii. That is just what the MSRP is. I would expect Oriolus to have a 70-80% gross margin on the product aside from the cable. If the IEM is $6000 and the cable costs them $1500, then the product cost is roughly 33% of $4500 which is $1500. I expect that is roughly what the cost of goods sold is. The question is how many employees do you need to produce those IEMs to keep your business thriving and what is your break even point for producing them. You may be able to make a few of them as a hobby, but if you don't have full business with sale, marketing and fulfillment channels, the cost of the product is very misleading.

Good call on the R6 2020 btw. For my non R2R android DAP this thing is amazing. DX300 listing opened back up. Still impatiently awaiting for the N6ii Ti for the r2r fun though.

 

[kkugel]

I don’t see Traillii in your signature. Have you heard it?

Yes, but never bought

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Good call on the R6 2020 btw. For my non R2R android DAP this thing is amazing. DX300 listing opened back up. Still impatiently awaiting for the N6ii Ti for the r2r fun though.

Yep. The R6 2020 + Traillii is a phenomenal pairing. I just got my 4ft Utopia cable today terminated with 4.4mm. It is so cool being able to walk around the house driving full sized TOTL headphones with that little DAP.

 

[kkugel]

It doesn't cost $6k to make a Traillii. That is just what the MSRP is. I would expect Oriolus to have a 60-70% gross margin on the product aside from the cable. If the IEM is $6000 and the cable costs them $1500, then the product cost is roughly 33% of $4500 which is $1500. I expect that is roughly what the cost of goods sold is. The question is how many employees do you need to produce those IEMs to keep your business thriving and what is your break even point for producing them. You may be able to make a few of them as a hobby, but if you don't have full business with sale, marketing and fulfillment channels, the cost of the product is very misleading.

Production cost of Traillii is 600$, Parts 450, labor estimate 150. Breakeven will be the first unit sold for Oriolus, they sell about 150 in a year, a single person can make that amount actually!

 

[aaf evo]

Production cost of Traillii is 600$, Parts 450, labor estimate 150. Breakeven will be the first unit sold for Oriolus, they sell about 150 in a year, a single person can make that amount actually!

You’re not factoring the cost of R&D as well as the cables either. If you just list raw materials for any IEM and labor, they’re all cheap.

 

[CL14715]

You’re not factoring the cost of R&D as well as the cables either. If you just list raw materials for any IEM and labor, they’re all cheap.

Or the fact that many fail and don’t make it to market during production.

 

[kkugel]

You’re not factoring the cost of R&D as well as the cables either. If you just list raw materials for any IEM and labor, they’re all cheap.

Yes sure, I meant only running production without cable. I'd estimate a skilled person can develop a Traillii in 3-5 months. Let's say 50k salary for that. Cable for 1500, that's breakeven after 13 units

 

[aaf evo]

Yes sure, I meant only running production without cable. I'd estimate a skilled person can develop a Traillii in 3-5 months. Let's say 50k salary for that. Cable for 1500, that's breakeven after 13 units

You estimate it only took about 3-5 months to develop the Traillii as a whole? Something about there just doesn’t add up to me at all, not for Traillii, but for any flagship IEM. Most companies claim they spend years in development for them.

 

[bluestorm1992]

Yes sure, I meant only running production without cable. I'd estimate a skilled person can develop a Traillii in 3-5 months. Let's say 50k salary for that. Cable for 1500, that's breakeven after 13 units

When we can see a prototype from you? I am happy to buy an early unit to try it out, but based on what you said and since you are being so transparent about the cost, I would not want to pay a lot for this.

 

[CL14715]

Yes sure, I meant only running production without cable. I'd estimate a skilled person can develop a Traillii in 3-5 months. Let's say 50k salary for that. Cable for 1500, that's breakeven after 13 units

If you do know what you’re talking about and how to build IEM’s, I have no reason to dispute your abilities… why did it take this long when the likes of the Fourte and others have been around for a while, to make Traillii if it could’ve been accomplished in a few months? I know Odin was in development for in excess of a year. Dean Vang is very skilled and has been in the hearing aide and IEM business almost as long as I’ve been alive. Not to mention he has an entire team behind him.

 

[kkugel]

You estimate it only took about 3-5 months to develop the Traillii as a whole? Something about there just doesn’t add up to me at all, not for Traillii, but for any flagship IEM. Most companies claim they spend years in development for them.

Hm well I have some insight into some companies. Might be true that it takes years, but that's a on-off kind of development. Implement a new idea, leave it, come back when more ideas arise. Pure developing time is really mostly under 6 months.

 

[aaf evo]

Hm well I have some insight into some companies. Might be true that it takes years, but that's a on-off kind of development. Implement a new idea, leave it, come back when more ideas arise. Pure developing time is really mostly under 6 months.

So can you answer this.. because I am legitimately curious. Why is the Traillii groundbreaking in terms of technicalities when all it is is 8 BA and 4 EST? I haven’t heard any other IEM, regardless of driver configuration, be able to separate and layer music this well while still keeping a normal tonality.

 

[kkugel]

When we can see a prototype from you? I am happy to buy an early unit to try it out, but based on what you said and since you are being so transparent about the cost, I would not want to pay a lot for this.

I think about 2-3 months. Currently working on getting the printing to reliable 10um precision

 

[bluestorm1992]

I think about 2-3 months. Currently working on getting the printing to reliable 10um precision

Nice. Look forward to this.

BTW, you should realize that by claiming all those (low) costs on your side, you are wiping out the possibility for you to charge anything much higher than the variable cost (bom) per unit. Potential customers are going to just quote you for that. You are truly doing a philanthropic business.