Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread

[SkipPP]

I am so confused. Every cap I have ever used was either Panasonic, Nichicon, or Nippon Chemicon, with perhaps an Elna here or there. none of these are mentioned here, and tons of new names are. I am looking some of these up and they look cool, although some just look like marketing gimmicks (wax capacitors???). 
 
Are these specialty products really that much better than high-end mass-market Japanese caps? Furthermore, what is this "burn in" process? I have never heard of this before. I have seen the difference in sound for using better capacitors, but I have not been exposed to these specialty items. Where would be a good place to learn how these products are different from the mainstream Japanese audio caps one would find in a typical Onkyo/Denon/Marantz receiver or amp?
 
 
Interested side:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/claritycap/MRWhitePaper.pdf

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

I am so confused. Every cap I have ever used was either Panasonic, Nichicon, or Nippon Chemicon, with perhaps an Elna here or there. none of these are mentioned here, and tons of new names are. I am looking some of these up and they look cool, although some just look like marketing gimmicks (wax capacitors???). 
 
Are these specialty products really that much better than high-end mass-market Japanese caps? Furthermore, what is this "burn in" process? I have never heard of this before. I have seen the difference in sound for using better capacitors, but I have not been exposed to these specialty items. Where would be a good place to learn how these products are different from the mainstream Japanese audio caps one would find in a typical Onkyo/Denon/Marantz receiver or amp?
 
 
Interested side:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/claritycap/MRWhitePaper.pdf

It's not a lot different from tube rolling, another subjective pastime.
 
I have not re-cap'd manufactured products, rather I used boutique caps and resistors when I built a 300B amp.
There is a pair of 0.22uF caps in the signal paths, so I upgraded those.  I tried the Jupiter Condenser, yes, beeswax caps for a short time.  But all the reviews of the Mundorf caps were glowing and I couldn't help but try them.   I went with the Silver Oil. They are very large and it took some work to fit them on the board.  Actually hovering over the board.
 
Although I don't really have a before and after comparision, I am delighted with the amp and the sound.
 
I added a photo of the Texas Components hand made 0.1% resistors just to add to the complexity of your decision making process...

EDIT:  I got the caps from Madisound.  They're great.
 
 

 
 
 

 

[Jasper9395]

Yes, the Mundorf supremes are great - a real audiophile cap. I've got a Michell Delphini phono amp which uses them... It sounds very good. I've also used Mundorf HC to replace and Mundorf Mcap to bypass the power caps in my Roksan Kandy LIII with great results. They're not cheap but you do get what you pay for. Also as you can see they are very big so I couldn't mount them on the pcb.

 

[ronenash]

I have been following this thread for a while now and have learned a lot from it. I have played with many different capacitors over the last year. a month ago I had a chance to get the new Aurocap XO capacitor to test out. I did not see too many references on the web to this capacitor and all the current review discuss the old version of the Auricaps.
I installed the caps as coupling and output caps in my Tetra phono stage. The Auricaps replaced the K40y-9 in the coupling cap position and the K75-10 bypassed by an FT-3 in the output cap position. As soon as I fired the Tetra I notice considerably more top end extension but a relatively narrow and shallow soundstage. Knowing what a couple hundred of burn in hours can do I let the caps burn in for two weeks. Over the course of these two weeks I noticed a constant improvement in sound. The soundstage became wide and deep, midrange gained refinement and bass became more articulate. These caps are really really good. They retain the great midrange of the original Auricaps but with so much more extension on top and on bottom as well as more air and transparency. This is really a top notch capacitor. Just to make sure I was not imagining thing I reinstalled the Russian caps in the Tetra and listened. There really is no comparing between the two. The Auricap XO to my ears are so much better.
It would be interesting to hear others experience with these caps. It a shame they are not used by more people.
 
Ron

 

[Jon L]

  I have been following this thread for a while now and have learned a lot from it. I have played with many different capacitors over the last year. a month ago I had a chance to get the new Auricap XO capacitor to test out. ...
It would be interesting to hear others experience with these caps. It a shame they are not used by more people.
 
Ron

 
This is great news for affordable capacitor market since the price seems to have gone up just a bit.  You should get a hold of some other metallized poly reference cap to compare and let us know, i.e. Claritycap MR.  
Some info as to what may have changed in the XO version:
"Over the past two years Audience has tested a host of parameters including tension windings and baking times, among other proprietary procedures. Auricap XO is made using the very finest obtainable polypropylene film and new high purity, oxygen free continuous cast copper leads. This new cap design offers reduced parasitic such as ESR improving on its effective bandwidth." 

 

[ronenash]

   
This is great news for affordable capacitor market since the price seems to have gone up just a bit.  You should get a hold of some other metallized poly reference cap to compare and let us know, i.e. Claritycap MR.  
Some info as to what may have changed in the XO version:
"Over the past two years Audience has tested a host of parameters including tension windings and baking times, among other proprietary procedures. Auricap XO is made using the very finest obtainable polypropylene film and new high purity, oxygen free continuous cast copper leads. This new cap design offers reduced parasitic such as ESR improving on its effective bandwidth." 

 
I do not have any Claritycap MRs but the Auricap XO were a big improvement over the Claritycap SA and ESA and over the Russian PIO caps I mentioned.

 

[ronenash]

A review of the Auricap XO was just published on Positive Feedback with much the same finding as I have already mentioned.
 
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue70/auricap.htm

 

[JamieMcC]

Hi guys I have been having fun researching output capacitors for upgrading my Crack in the new year, being in the UK prices here seem to be higher than those over in the US and there is not so much choice readily available 

So narrowing it down the has been difficult but these two sound attractive and are within my limited budget. 

The  Obbligato 100uf 400v +-10%           45mmx90mm at £30each
&
The JB JFX 100uf 250v premium film +-3%     48.5mmx59mm at £22 each


For reference  a pic of Mike B's Crack with  Dayton 100 uF 250 V caps in this pic which

 are listed as 51 mm x 77 mm Which would mean the JB JFX premium films would have a little more room for installing unlike the Obbligato.

I have a few questions if anyone can help?

Capacitor matching, the supplier will match the JB JFX pairs to +-1%  for £1.75 I am guessing matching is a good idea but would be interested in general thoughts on this.

There is quiet a bit of info about the Obbligato on the net but not much on the JB JFX which seems to be a 2013 product from JB Capacitors who have been manufacturing industrial capacitors for 30 + years.

Has anybody here any knowledge of them for audio?

Spec's

http://www.jbcapacitors.com/pdf/JFX-Premium-Metallized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-Axial.pdf

Generic pic

 

 
Any thoughts welcome

Cheers

Jamie.

ps Happy New Year all.
 

 

[sceleratus]

Hi guys I have been having fun researching output capacitors for upgrading my Crack in the new year, being in the UK prices here seem to be higher than those over in the US and there is not so much choice readily available 

So narrowing it down the has been difficult but these two sound attractive and are within my limited budget. 


The  Obbligato 100uf 400v +-10%           45mmx90mm at £30each

&

The JB JFX 100uf 250v premium film +-3%     48.5mmx59mm at £22 each



For reference  a pic of Mike B's Crack with  Dayton 100 uF 250 V caps in this pic which

 are listed as 51 mm x 77 mm Which would mean the JB JFX premium films would have a little more room for installing unlike the Obbligato.


I have a few questions if anyone can help?


Capacitor matching, the supplier will match the JB JFX pairs to +-1%  for £1.75 I am guessing matching is a good idea but would be interested in general thoughts on this.


There is quiet a bit of info about the Obbligato on the net but not much on the JB JFX which seems to be a 2013 product from JB Capacitors who have been manufacturing industrial capacitors for 30 + years.


Has anybody here any knowledge of them for audio?


Spec's

[COLOR=0066CC]http://www.jbcapacitors.com/pdf/JFX-Premium-Metallized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-Axial.pdf[/COLOR]


Generic pic


 

 
Any thoughts welcome


Cheers


Jamie.


ps Happy New Year all.

 

Don't know about the Crack as to best sound for the buck.

I purchased my Mundorfs from Madisound. They have a good variety and I thought their prices were fair.

 

[VicW]

Thank you for a great update. Most of my cap experience was with my Haflers and Phillips CD player. The input caps were most reveling in my cast but this is decades since I done things. I have always liked Panasonics for cheap caps, especially electrolitics. Wimas were always up there and wondercaps had a high end softness but still detailed. I have also used but not kept in line a few of the oil filled Russian caps. For my applications I like the Wimas. And, I am not beyond using an extra bypass for critical application. I have also used a few Teflons and don't experience them as being cost effective. It's all a matter of "balance" in your particular system. But since so much time has passed maybe I need to get up to date and you have given me a great starting point for updating my system.
On the point of "updating" a friend had an old Accuphase pre and power amps. I had gone over his board updating same spec caps in the circuits but increasing those in the power supply. He was thrilled. Another friend has a pair of Sumo amps and he too was re-impressed with his original purchase since I updated it and kept it in action for another decade.

 

[loserica]

Do you listened Rike Audio (PIO) S-Caps yet? Thank you!

 

[mcandmar]

  Hi guys I have been having fun researching output capacitors for upgrading my Crack in the new year, being in the UK prices here seem to be higher than those over in the US and there is not so much choice readily available 

So narrowing it down the has been difficult but these two sound attractive and are within my limited budget. 

The  Obbligato 100uf 400v +-10%           45mmx90mm at £30each
&
The JB JFX 100uf 250v premium film +-3%     48.5mmx59mm at £22 each

For reference  a pic of Mike B's Crack with  Dayton 100 uF 250 V caps in this pic which

 are listed as 51 mm x 77 mm Which would mean the JB JFX premium films would have a little more room for installing unlike the Obbligato.

I have a few questions if anyone can help?

Capacitor matching, the supplier will match the JB JFX pairs to +-1%  for £1.75 I am guessing matching is a good idea but would be interested in general thoughts on this.

There is quiet a bit of info about the Obbligato on the net but not much on the JB JFX which seems to be a 2013 product from JB Capacitors who have been manufacturing industrial capacitors for 30 + years.

Has anybody here any knowledge of them for audio?

Spec's

http://www.jbcapacitors.com/pdf/JFX-Premium-Metallized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-Axial.pdf

Generic pic

 
Any thoughts welcome

Cheers

Jamie.

ps Happy New Year all.
 

 
Hey Jamie, have you considered Mundorf caps?   I recently fitted 1.5uf Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil output caps into my S.E.X amp and they are sublime. For the interstage caps i'm using .1uf Russian FT3 teflons.   I'm still stunned how much of a difference they made to the amp, but a little worried that i find myself back reading this thread again

 

[JamieMcC]

   
Hey Jamie, have you considered Mundorf caps?   I recently fitted 1.5uf Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil output caps into my S.E.X amp and they are sublime. For the interstage caps i'm using .1uf Russian FT3 teflons.   I'm still stunned how much of a difference they made to the amp, but a little worried that i find myself back reading this thread again

 
Hi the large uf Mundorfs were a bit pricey for me, size wise there is not much wiggle room also. Its helpful to know of your experience with your SEX thanks I am very tempted to build one of them at a later date and have a speaker project I am mulling over to base round it. Maybe later in the year.
 
I do have some more info on the JB JFX which I decided in the end to purchase. Fingers crossed they will be a worthwhile upgrade we will see.
 
 
Following on from my earlier post, the JFX-Premium metallized polypropylene film capacitor intrigued me and there is something about taking the path less travelled that I find attractive compared to running with the more obvious tried and tested choices for upgrading the caps in the Crack.
 
After some considerable time spent online getting nowhere I ended up contacting JB Capacitors direct in China.
 
It turns out that they have a 30 year history of capacitor manufacturing with modern machinery and production methods achieving high consistent quality to meet many international accreditations.
 
On to the JFX-Premium metallized polypropylene film capacitor.
 
These are built to high specification and JB state they regard their JFX product  as being of equivalent quality as the more well know  brands such as  Jensen, Auricap, Erse, Mundorf,  Auricap, Erse, Mallory, Jantzen Audio.  Which is not a claim to make lightly I would think.
   
A premium grade of “defect free” aluminium metallized polypropylene film was chosen from an industry leading film supplier. All leads are lead free (RoHS Compliant), oxygen free 99.99% pure copper. Each lead is attached to the body of the capacitor with ultrasonic welding. To further reduce equivalent series resistance and improve long term reliability, the leads are then soldered with lead free silver solder. JFX caps are then wrapped in flame proof polyester tape and the ends are epoxy filled. Before final packing, each JFX cap is tested with certified premium quality Wayne Kerr capacitance bridges to insure the ±3% tolerance nominal value.
 
This seems to be born out as my two capacitors are matched 102.35uf and 102.27uf 0.08uf difference so to within 0.08% this seems a good sign with regards to consistency of their  manufacturing.
 
Interestingly I also found out that Mundorf approached them to manufacture the JFX as OEM part for them so they could create a new premium brand to sell under the Mundorf branding. JB decided not to pursue this as it did not add value to their own brand which they want to promote with the JFX.
 
The JFX range is promoted
 
“The JFX caps display signs of a near perfect capacitor. Total harmonic and IMD distortion and phase distortion are virtually immeasurable, while all losses are near zero in every aspect. jb JFX caps will allow your music to be accurate and uncolored in every way.”
 
 
Taking a path less travelled was to appealing so I decide to go with JB JFX premium films over the Obbligato's being smaller they fit in the BH Crack nicely. Initial observations they seem well made no obvious flaws they arrived quickly, well packaged and with associated measurements from Audiocap UK. The labelling is not printed onto the capacitor itself but on a adhesive film that is wrapped around the capacitor. There are no markings as to which lead is connected to the outer foil  so you would need to test if you wanted to connect in a particular orientation. From what I have found this is common practice in this price range and as you move up the price ladder this feature becomes more available on some but not on all of more well known premium bands.
 
My Caps
 
 

 

[JamieMcC]

Its been both fun and confidence building adding a couple of mods to my BHC over the last week. Yesterday it was the turn of the JB Capacitors, JFX 100uf 250v premium film caps. 

I still need to add some insulating tape to the cap leads and connecting wires, I will pick some up on Monday.

Also on the first pic you can see how the Valab attenuator only just fits inside the case. I had glued some corner braces to the case and needed to remove one of these for the Valab to fit.
 
Initial impressions are very good, much better than I was expecting which is a pleasant surprise.
 
I'm planning to let them burn in for 50+hrs to see if anything changes





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[NightFlight]

What the heck are the zip ties tied to?