[sarahface]

Hi everyone,
 
I'm Sarah, and I'm trying to take my first plunge in to high(er) end audio. I have a pair of HD595s that I bought recently that I quite like. Before you advise me to upgrade my headphones before dropping this much money on electronics, please note that I have auditioned the majority of the head-fi suggested headphones and found the HD595s to have the most pleasing sound character to me. I am not interested in upgrading my HD595s until I can find something that has a similar neutral sound character, as I found the majority of the 'upgrades' suggested here to be highly coloured and, overall, less enjoyable. Besides, buying quality electronics now means I won't have to upgrade when I find a 'better' pair of headphones in the future.
 
That out of the way, my current situation is thus: my source material is FLAC files on my computer, played via Foobar ASIO out, through the optical port on my motherboard, to my (borrowed) Tianyun ZERO. I have used my brother's ZERO for quite some time and am familiar with the sound character, and used it (along with a laptop and USB output) when I auditioned the other headphones. However, I have a desire for an upgrade from the ZERO, especially considering I will no longer have access to it in the future.
 
Options I have been researching range in price from $300 to around $500, and I was hoping to receive some additional insight on a good pairing with my HD595s, and finding the best value for my money. All-in-ones I have looked at include the Audio-GD FUN, Yulong D100, Matrix Mini-i, with the Yulong D100 seeming to be closest to what I'm interested in. However, the balanced output is something I am not likely to ever use, and the 'unknown' nature of the company gives me some doubt about longterm longevity. The 'sound' filter setting also gives me some pause; if a purpose-built colouration device is included, perhaps the rest of the amp isn't designed to be accurate? How much of the Yulong's price tag goes to the balanced outs that I will (likely) never use? Nonetheless, the Yulong looks to have the best specs to my limited knowledge of the audio world, and project86 seemed to give it a very good review that coincides with what I'm looking for.
 
Are there any other all-in-ones, or discrete components, that I should be looking at in this price range? Features such as RCA outs for a power amplifier or integrated amplifier for speakers are extraneous currently, but may see some use in the future.

 

[muad]

I think between the 3 you have to decide what are you after. All three have excellent dac's. The Fun has the best amp. The matrix and D100 have balanced dac outputs. The D100 can't be used as a preamp and the matrix can only be used with headphones up to 300ohms. I think between the 3 the Fun is the most well rounded whereas the other 2 are dac's first and the amp second.
 
If you don't want the balanced dac output and you want a good amp I'd go with the FUN. It isn't as cheap as the matrix but it is cheaper than the yulong. It has really nice functionality. It can be used as a dedicated preamp (no dac), as a dedicated amp (no dac) or a dedicated dac (no preamp) or any combination of  the three. Audio-gd is also great to deal with and it built like a tank. Just be sure to get at least the earth opa with it when you buy it.

 

[sarahface]

Hi Muad,
 
Thank you for your reply. I suspected that the Audio-GD FUN was a bit more dedicated to the headphone section (the Neutrik jack and the ALPS pot helped me come to this conclusion), but I am worried that it isn't going to be the 'big jump' I'm looking for from the ZERO. However, I believe my ZERO is 3 years old now, and it only cost around $120 way back when, so perhaps my assumptions are unfounded. I'm going to read through the FUN reviews now, thank you very much for your assistance!
 
Also, one last question: is there anything else I might look at within this price range? Say, a dedicated DAC plus a Schiit Valhalla, or something similar?
 
Edit: In further research, it appears that the Audio-GD FUN and the Sparrow are very similar in sound quality, and the Sparrow is significantly cheaper. Preamp out isn't a huge necessity for me, and it looks like the Sparrow uses very similar DAC and amplification circuitry, so perhaps that would be a better value for me? However, I'm still troubled by the fact that I'm replacing a $120 DAC/amp with a $135 DAC/amp; will the upgrade be big enough for me, or should I look further?
 
Sarah

 

[muad]

I think it will be a step up for you. Audio-gd stuff tends to be well designed and uses high quality components. The compass was the predecessor to the Fun was designed to be a high quality replacement for the zero. The FUN is very similar except for one thing. They use something called acss gain. Basically this adjust gain on the current side instead of voltage. It's supposed to give the same sound quality at any volume. This alone was a large improvement over the compass. The sparrow uses this gain circuitry also. Take your time and do your research. But I don't think you can go wrong with audio-gd stuff.
 
The Fun might be better in the long run for you. It is a very functional device. The sparrow isn't versatile at all....

 

[mythless]

Not to mention, the available HDAM are nice and the ability to hook up a tube amp gives the Fun a nice touch of flexibility.

 

[grokit]

If you need a DAC with multiple inputs and a smooth, accurate amp for your HD595, the Mini-i is a very good choice, and it will scale up to mate with a more serious amp later if you acquire harder to drive headphones. But if you don't need the multiple inputs and anticipate getting harder to drive (properly) headphones soon like a 600-ohm Beyer or an HD650 or even a K701, you may also want to consider a Nuforce Icon HDP, which also has a very good DAC and a more powerful amp. It cost more $, but is still within your stated budget. Even your HD595 could benefit from the HDP's additional power. The Schiit Asgard would also be a good inexpensive way to upgrade the Mini-i's power and stay on budget.
 
Happy listening, let us know what you decide and what you think of the upgrade

 

[sarahface]

Hi again everyone, thanks for the replies!
 
I'm looking around right now to see if I can find a Fun to listen to in person, but I think it's going to be the winner even if I can't find one to test out locally. Grokit, I don't need multiple inputs (just one from the computer), but having the DAC act as a preamp is a feature I wouldn't be opposed to. If I did end up springing for a new pair of headphones, I think I would go whole-hog and get a fully balanced setup (necessitating a sell-off of whatever I choose now), but I am entirely happy with my HD 595s now. After reading more, I have seen reviews claiming that the headphone amp in the Matrix is anything but accurate, so I don't think I would be interested.
 
As for the NuForce, I have heard far too many bad things about the build quality, buzzing with low impedence headphones and the exceptional channel imbalance that I'm going to be staying well away.
 
Sarah

 

[grokit]

Well I have listened to my HD600 out of my Mini-i extensively and it is indeed accurate, and many would agree in the Matrix thread. As far as the Nuforce comments, you must be referring to the uDac, not the HDP, they are very different creatures. But to each her own.

 

[sarahface]

Hi Grokit,
 
Good to know that you are enjoying your purchase. The reviews I read described the sound of the Mini-i as a warm, tube-like sound, exactly the colouration I'm looking to avoid.
 
I was indeed referring to the Icon HDP, although perhaps the negative comments I read were exaggerated. Nonetheless, NuForce does make mention of the channel imbalance on the HDP on the website, but reviews I have read have claimed that it is far more noticeable than NuForce would suggest.
 
Sarah

 

[grokit]

Where does Nuforce make a mention of the supposed channel imbalance? The only mention of it on their HDP product page is "High quality analog volume control".
 
The reviews of the HDP here at Head-fi seem to be universally stellar, 5/5 stars: http://www.head-fi.org/products/nuforce-icon-hdp-high-end-headphone-amp-usb-dac-preamp
 
I have read many other positive impressions here regarding the power of the amp and the quality of the DAP in the HDP but I am just going by what I have read as I have not heard it myself. I definitely discount impressions by anyone that has not heard the item in question, so I don't pay attention to those.
 
As far as the Mini-i's warm, tube-like qualities, I have a couple of good tube amps and the Mini-i is what I would call smooth, detailed, non-fatiguing and perhaps slightly analytical but definitely not "tube-like". I feed its balanced outputs into a WA22 pure tube amp, but still enjoy the Mini-i's internal amp at times so I am able to make direct comparisons. Perhaps you could direct me to the reviews that describe it that way, as I have not come across them and have kept up with the Mini-i thread. It seems to be well received by most, with 378 posts and counting: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/441960/matrix-mini-i-balanced-dac-hp-amp
 
But then again we probably don't have the same tastes, as I was seriously disappointed with my HD555, which has the same driver as the HD595 that you seem to enjoy so much. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as everyone hears things differently. But the 555 nearly killed my enthusiasm for this hobby.

 

[AVU]

Same boat:
 
 
Audinst HUD-mx1 = $180

Audio-Gd Sparrow (or Fun) = $240

Matrix Mini-I (balanced) = $300

Little Dot Dac II = $320

Fubar IV+ = $350

Musiland MD-10 = $370

NuForce Icon HDP = $450

Yulong D100 = $500

Valeb Chameleon = $500

Yulong 1704 = $540

 

and if you wanted to go separates:

 

M-Stage $240

+

v-dac $300

 

Personally, I'm in the same situation and will probably be going with the new Class-A Sparrow.  Basically identical to the Fun for my purposes, only the power is less, and for my JH-13s, that's not a big deal.  Plus the sparrow is reasonably sized, like a cd-rom player, on your desk.  The fun is like a gigantic tank that takes over everything around it

 

my only possibility is getting the matrix-i and getting my jh13s recabled to balanced (400 total) or getting the M-stage and a used dac for under $300.  Maybe a gamma 1 or 2, or something old.  

 

[grokit]

The JH-13 would probably do very well single-ended through the Mini-i's onboard amp, as it has a 90-step attenuator for absolute volume control and I have never read about it generating any hiss with IEMs.

 

[sarahface]

Quote:

Where does Nuforce make a mention of the supposed channel imbalance? The only mention of it on their HDP product page is "High quality analog volume control".
 
 
The reviews of the HDP here at Head-fi seem to be universally stellar, 5/5 stars: http://www.head-fi.org/products/nuforce-icon-hdp-high-end-headphone-amp-usb-dac-preamp
 
I have read many other positive impressions here regarding the power of the amp and the quality of the DAP in the HDP but I am just going by what I have read as I have not heard it myself. I definitely discount impressions by anyone that has not heard the item in question, so I don't pay attention to those.
 
As far as the Mini-i's warm, tube-like qualities, I have a couple of good tube amps and the Mini-i is what I would call smooth, detailed, non-fatiguing and perhaps slightly analytical but definitely not "tube-like". I feed its balanced outputs into a WA22 pure tube amp, but still enjoy the Mini-i's internal amp at times so I am able to make direct comparisons. Perhaps you could direct me to the reviews that describe it that way, as I have not come across them and have kept up with the Mini-i thread. It seems to be well received by most, with 378 posts and counting: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/441960/matrix-mini-i-balanced-dac-hp-amp
 
But then again we probably don't have the same tastes, as I was seriously disappointed with my HD555, which has the same driver as the HD595 that you seem to enjoy so much. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as everyone hears things differently. But the 555 nearly killed my enthusiasm for this hobby.

 
Hi Grokit,
 
The NuForce website here (http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/iconhdp/index.php), under the Guides: section near the bottom of the page, provides links that makes reference to both the hiss and the channel imbalance. I don't recall the posts off hand that described the Mini-i tube sound, but I believe they were inside one of the two Mini-i threads I read, one was 8 (I think) pages, the other was more than 25. Either way, I don't care nearly enough to go digging through them to find it for you, sorry!
 
AVU: Thank you for the links, looks like I have a bit more reading to do! Right now, I'm thinking that Audio-GD is going to be a winner, but I'm having a bit of trouble deciding between the Sparrow and the Fun.
 
Sarah

 

[muad]

Lol AVU, you're right. The Fun is a bit of a tank...
 
According to kingwa (audio-gd designer) the Sparrow sounds identical to the audio-gd Fun with an opa earth installed. So in essence if you don't need all the functionality or modularity that the Fun provides than the sparrow would probably suit you fine. Before you guys buy either maybe wait until someone reviews the new dac chip (WM8741)  that kingwa released and is now the stock version A DAC module for the Fun and sparrow. It was just released last week so no one knows what it sounds like. He says it's just as detailed and dynamic but more neutral than the AD1852 that was previously the stock dac chip. Myself and some other Fun owners will have it in the next few days so.
 
EDIT: and also don't get the higher end input module, reviews say it doesn't sound as good as the stock dir9001 module

 

[AVU]

That's also what I've heard re: the DIR 9001 module.  Dan Lavry has said that the 196khz is a gimmick anyway  Jitter reduction is more important.  But yes, Kingwa thinks the WM8741 is much improved, and the sparrow and fun both have that. The only thing the fun has, for me, is a bigger toroid power unit.  But frankly, I don't think the JH13s really benefit THAT much from this kind of thing (obviously all phones do, but still).  I am getting a new cable for the JH13s, and was thinking of DIYing a balanced one, so the Mini-i becomes an interesting prospect.  But not sure whether the balancing will really do all that much.  On the other hand, it'd be balanced for when I inevitably upgrade from the mini-i to something more ridiculous (sigh).  
 
Quote:

Lol AVU, you're right. The Fun is a bit of a tank...
 
According to kingwa (audio-gd designer) the Sparrow sounds identical to the audio-gd Fun with an opa earth installed. So in essence if you don't need all the functionality or modularity that the Fun provides than the sparrow would probably suit you fine. Before you guys buy either maybe wait until someone reviews the new dac chip (WM8741)  that kingwa released and is now the stock version A DAC module for the Fun and sparrow. It was just released last week so no one knows what it sounds like. He says it's just as detailed and dynamic but more neutral than the AD1852 that was previously the stock dac chip. Myself and some other Fun owners will have it in the next few days so.
 
EDIT: and also don't get the higher end input module, reviews say it doesn't sound as good as the stock dir9001 module