[Currawong]

What we need is more impressions, not measurements. The latter don't tell us anything if we aren't matching them to our own impressions. 

 

[achristilaw]

I think the roll out got rolled over.... then played dead......

 

[kazsud]

What we need is more impressions, not measurements. The latter don't tell us anything if we aren't matching them to our own impressions. 

+1

 

[achristilaw]

People are putting waaaaay too much stock in whatever comes after 10khz, which really isn't much of anything. Yes, you can hear it (I hear up to 17.5khz), but the information up there is so unimportant to the meat of the sound, I find it utterly ridiculous that people are bitching about a roll off after 10khz. 10khz is basically what we hear most in treble, so a roll off after that really doesn't do much. But hey, congrats if you want to nitpick that much. Truthfully, a roll off after 10khz is welcome, as that cuts out fatigue by a good amount. A headphone can still be very airy without emphasis after 10khz.

Test it yourself. Run Sinegen, and point it at 10khz (at your PREFERRED volume level). Go up slowly to around 16khz, then when you're there, rapidly move the slider up to 20khz. See if you can REALLY hear the difference. What you'll hear most is basically just artifacts at that point. Those who say they can hear 20khz... I laugh. Really, I do. Go from 18khz to 20khz. If 20khz goes silent, you're full of it.

The original LCD-2 was missing the top octave (10K and above), all air of the upper register was missing. You have sizzle with non-linearity's of equipment, material, OR over EQ!  Your whole written response is missing it's top octave.......... 

 

[Audiolic]

i'm sure they sound very good and to my taste.. if not i would EQ them a little..
 
but distortion spike at certains freq mean something bad with housing...
 
cant wait to see the impulse response and another CSD analyse because fast impulse and short decay is kinda important in an headphone of this level..
 
this is why i need other measurements..
 
I'm still looking for a replacement against my 260g koss esp-950 electrostats... he-560 and he-400i or pm-1 are at the top of the list...
 
actually the taket h2 plus is at the top but is in another price range.. (wonder how they would fare against it tho)
 
---
wish the oppo was less sensitive with same SQ but lighter. something like 300-325g and 92db would make it an instant buy for me.

 

[RUMAY408]

If anyone out there owns (bought) this HP (not borrowed or given to review) please post you're impressions I would love to hear a Head-Fi impressions of the sound, comfort, etc.
 
I own the BDP-105 it is an amazing piece of audio equipment so I am very interested in the opinions about these HP's. Frequency response curves are technical 2D impressions but give me little to bite on.

 

[Audiolic]

Since anyway.. at least in speaker design, one driver pushing all freq is not recommended because of intermodulation distortion or distortion at breakup.
 
They should just put a crossoverless (capped lpf) utra small super tweeter to cover the instant drop in high freq of the driver and be done with it.. they would need to put it in the middle tho..maybe for time alignment..  crossover should be avoided too since they color the sound... so big planar to cover under 7-10khz and supertweeter in middle (same dispersion pattern as low|mid planar driver). or 4 supertweeter, at north est west south or 2 each side of the cup.. shooting at the center of the ear.. working as an square/rectangular array of super tweets.. i guess im getting crazy here ...

 

[keanex]

It's not only the ones who appreciate it but also the future buyers, isn't the point to a review appreciation to attract buyers? If not then why are we having this thread?

In my evaluation to possibly buy it is can it perform for the price asked, the graph helps in trying to answer the question but impressions are the ultimate products I am looking for to make the final decision. To date it seems to be hard to have valid reviews to surface which I am just wondering if it's because there are strings attached to getting the headphones, who are the true buyers of the PM-1, where are the impressions and reviews?

 
I understand your view point on giving free things a positive review, but on the other hand if I were to put out a positive review on a mediocre product wouldn't that hurt my credibility? I try to shine the light on the good of every headphone that I review, but every headphones has it's positives even if they aren't great. I make sure to also highlight the poor qualities of a headphone also. I feel that if I spent money on a headphone I'd be more inclined to justify my purchase. 
 
Just my 2 cents though.

 

[keanex]

  What we need is more impressions, not measurements. The latter don't tell us anything if we aren't matching them to our own impressions. 

 
I'll have a review in less than 3 weeks. I'm a beta tester though so take that as you will.
 
Edit: One last thought. I understand why people like graphs, but they only tell one side of the story. The M50 measure very well in CSD plots as well as frequency response, but to my ears they sound congested and bloated. 

 

[Audiolic]

   
I'll have a review in less than 3 weeks. I'm a beta tester though so take that as you will.
 
Edit: One last thought. I understand why people like graphs, but they only tell one side of the story. The M50 measure very well in CSD plots as well as frequency response, but to my ears they sound congested and bloated. 

 
multiple other things than slow decay can create congested and bloated sound!!! high bass or mid distortion, bad tuning, bad positioning of the drivers, close versus open, bad pads, not enough speed in the drivers)
 
can you explain to me how slow decay in an headphone can result in good sound.. this is what we all want to know... if a sound wave stop in a recording and the headphone is still resonating... (is it possible that this could be good to add some kind of added decay texture to the sound... or it really can't be good since it's really adding something that wasnt in the recording.. since if a string resonate in the recording shouldnt it stop at the same moment in the ear..)
 
Personally, if it's the same guy who did the B&G nuo8 nuo10 planar mid/high drivers that did the design of this headphone driver.. im sure CSD is important to him..
 
so could be a bad take.. or bad pair.. waiting for Tyll measurements and advice on innerfidelity.. 

 

[keanex]

   
multiple other things than slow decay can create congested and bloated sound!!! high bass or mid distortion, bad tuning, bad positioning of the drivers, close versus open, bad pads, not enough speed in the drivers)
 
can you explain to me how slow decay in an headphone can result in good sound.. this is what we all want to know... if a sound wave stop in a recording and the headphone is still resonating... (is it possible that this could be good to add some kind of added decay texture to the sound... or it really can't be good since it's really adding something that wasnt in the recording.. since if a string resonate in the recording shouldnt it stop at the same moment in the ear..)

 
You're talking science that I'm not well versed in. I know that the PM-1 sound excellent in my listening. You can look at graphs or take my opinion. Either way you're never going to know until you listen to them yourself. How about we keep speculations based on a graph that we have no real basis of comparison out of here though? Is that okay? Until Tyll or someone measures them with comparisons to other headphones with graphs that we're adjusted to then we're just speculating. 

 

[jerg]

Well sometimes slower decay in the low mids can give some euphonic quality to the midrange. Case-in-point: HE500.

 

[Audiolic]

   
You're talking science that I'm not well versed in. I know that the PM-1 sound excellent in my listening. You can look at graphs or take my opinion. Either way you're never going to know until you listen to them yourself. How about we keep speculations based on a graph that we have no real basis of comparison out of here though? Is that okay? Until Tyll or someone measures them with comparisons to other headphones with graphs that we're adjusted to then we're just speculating. 

yeah your right sorry.. I really want them to be good since i love the stellar looking design
 
(taken from the site)
http://stereos.about.com/od/Measurements/ss/Oppo-Digital-PM-1-Headphone-Measurements_4.htm
 
Spectral decay (waterfall) plot of the PM-1, right channel. Long blue/green streaks indicate resonances, which are generally undesirable. This headphone has a rather slow decay across the whole audio band, but it doesn't show up so much as distinct resonances. The decay is slowest between 500 Hz and 2 kHz. I haven't seen a headphone respond with this much resonance before so frankly, I'm not sure what to make of it. (Nah, it wasn't a problem with the measurement. I measured another headphone right afterward and got typical results.

 

[SP Wild]

  I have no issue with the perceived, "lack of air." I'll take a euphoric, warm tilt with great mids any day over air. This is why the hd800 and he6 were not for me. 

 
Well I don't think what happens after 10khz is the reason for these two cans sounding 'airy'.  The K701 rolled of aggressively right after 10khz...and no one can say they lacked air...but I do hear the K701 rolloff.  The HD650 actually sounds more treble extended but not as bright overall.  Also adjusting EQ sliders after 10khz also tends to boost or subdue 10khz to some degree due to the slope.
 
I hear nothing after 15khz...I thought I did...but looking at the spectrum analyser with a sineweep after 15khz tells me I do not hear what I see.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Well I don't think what happens after 10khz is the reason for these two cans sounding 'airy'.  The K701 rolled of aggressively right after 10khz...and no one can say they lacked air...

Ding ding ding