[jerg]

   
No offense taken.  

 
 
But consider the bias that can lead to defending a purchase.  A reviewer who has neither spent any of his own money nor been gifted with a product, is perhaps the least biased.  

No self-respecting manufacturer would do that though (send out units for review then recall them), that's just poor business strategy 

. Especially for headphones where the actual manufacturing overhead is pretty small, and mainly the research / prototyping are where the funds go.

 

[zilch0md]

I need to backup a few posts - I must have missed something. How does a "recall" fit into the discussion?

 

[musicheaven]

  No self-respecting manufacturer would do that though (send out units for review then recall them), that's just poor business strategy 

. Especially for headphones where the actual manufacturing overhead is pretty small, and mainly the research / prototyping are where the funds go.

Actually the ones who care about unbiased reviews do. I know for sure that if I am going to be left with the product after my review is done, anyone will look at my review as impartial and they would have a very difficult point to refute.

 

[musicheaven]

  The only way I can see to extrapolate how HD800 compares to PM1 in terms of treble behaviour, and only roughly, is to use HD800 + LCDX + HE6 in the same headroom plot. Then cross the LCDX and HE6 plots between the headroom and the about.com measurements, and predict how PM1 would look with the headroom compensation.
 
So...here's the un-smoothed tri-fecta FR plot (I like un-smoothed because it doesn't hide anything strange):

Spoiler: Warning: Lots of graphs

 

 
Here's that same plot but with HD800 removed:
 

 

 
And here's the About.com measurement again, of LCDX, HE6, and PM1:
 

 
I'm not gonna do any extrapolation, anyone interested is welcome to though.

 
I just wanted to show you the equipment they used to perform the test for the last graph above.
That truly looks like my right ear 

 

 

[Beagle]

 
Not a whole lot, but that is dodging the point that 10KHz rolloff is unacceptable, especially for a $1099 flagship headphone. Those frequencies are important for adding realism to the recording.
The Oppo PM-1 may not actually sound like that though, we'll have to wait for subjective reviews for more consensus.

 
Yes, we will actually have to hear the PM-1, otherwise we would be basing our conjectures on one of many graphs that are all different because those dummy heads (which are often smarter than the operators) are different sizes, also amps, mics, all different hence different results.....yet our ears remain the same. Maybe we could use those?
 

   
No offense taken.  

 
But consider the bias that can lead to defending a purchase.  A reviewer who has neither spent any of his own money nor been gifted with a product, is perhaps the least biased.

 
30 day return makes a level playing field

 

[Maxx134]

.... I can not think of one con as I write this...

Exactly my sentiments what I posted a few days ago..

So how many people actually have both the 560 and the PM-1s? I see some people saying in some other threads how the 560 is superior, but from what I've read they don't actually have either headphones...

Yes this is unfortunate.
Too much speculation going on, and now with graphs

I'm no expert in reading frequency graphs but it looks like the roll off happens after 15kHz, compared to the other flagship headphones. Again, it looks pretty low for the 17-18kHz region, next to the other two, but that's pretty high in the frequency range. Frequency response graphs are not linear in the x axis. Note how much space is dedicated on the graph for the 1-2kHz and then less for the 2-5kHz region. Then it starts compressing more from 5-10kHz and finally 10-20kHz the graph gets very compressed.

That's what I see anyway. Looks awesome to me for way less money than the others.


Here is the graph comparing PM-1 (blue) with the LCD-X and the HE-6 from about.stereos

I herd them at the NY meet but do not know how broken in they were or if they were the last pre production version, or the actual final production version.

I herd absolutely no deficiency in trebles. They sounded very impressive All around with nice viscerial impact.

They did not sound dark.
I don't know where these negative comment come from and don't care to know.

They sound better to me than the LCD XC yet I found the LCD X somewhat brighter in signature.

Based on what I HERD, with the woo wa7 WITH the new PSU.
I was sold.
Just waiting for my he560 to come now to settle this once and for all Lol

...after my review is done, anyone will look at my review as impartial and they would have a very difficult point to refute.

Ok, but if you dont write a favorable or glowing review, you would never be used by companies as a reviewer again(!) Ha

Funny how the HE560 thread was obssessed with sub-bass behaviour last week, and now PM1 thread is obssessed with supra-treble behaviour.

.
Hahaha!
Easy solution is to buy both, and return one!

 

[7ryder]

  So how many people actually have both the 560 and the PM-1s? I see some people saying in some other threads how the 560 is superior, but from what I've read they don't actually have either headphones...

I have orders in on both, PM-1s will be at the house sometime this week... Hoping the 560s ship soon so I have them both for a few weeks to compare them. 

 

[Duncan]

   
Yes, we will actually have to hear the PM-1, otherwise we would be basing our conjectures on one of many graphs that are all different because those dummy heads (which are often smarter than the operators) are different sizes, also amps, mics, all different hence different results.....yet our ears remain the same. Maybe we could use those?
 

Yes,
 
C'mon everyone, since when have we been that subjective as to base an opinion on conjecture and supposition...
 
Please put this thread back on track, it is an appreciation thread after all, and whilst not everyone has to appreciate a product to post, surely at least they have to have either heard it, or have a question aimed at someone who has?
 
Graphs only tell a fraction of the story...

 

[musicheaven]

Yes,

C'mon everyone, since when have we been that subjective as to base an opinion on conjecture and supposition...

Please put this thread back on track, it is an appreciation thread after all, and whilst not everyone has to appreciate a product to post, surely at least they have to have either heard it, or have a question aimed at someone who has?

Graphs only tell a fraction of the story...

It's not only the ones who appreciate it but also the future buyers, isn't the point to a review appreciation to attract buyers? If not then why are we having this thread?

In my evaluation to possibly buy it is can it perform for the price asked, the graph helps in trying to answer the question but impressions are the ultimate products I am looking for to make the final decision. To date it seems to be hard to have valid reviews to surface which I am just wondering if it's because there are strings attached to getting the headphones, who are the true buyers of the PM-1, where are the impressions and reviews?

 

[achristilaw]

It's not only the ones who appreciate it but also the future buyers, isn't the point to a review appreciation to attract buyers? If not then why are we having this thread?

In my evaluation to possibly buy it is can it perform for the price asked, the graph helps in trying to answer the question but impressions are the ultimate products I am looking for to make the final decision. To date it seems to be hard to have valid reviews to surface which I am just wondering if it's because there are strings attached to getting the headphones, who are the true buyers of the PM-1, where are the impressions and reviews?

Who bought and paid money? Good question.........

 

[7ryder]

As stated earlier, Oppo has a 30 day refund policy so take the plunge and get a pair for an audition. If you don't like them, send 'em back. The only cost for an inhome audition if you don't like them is shipping costs.

 

[Maxx134]

...
Graphs only tell a fraction of the story...

OK the only grapth that I feel it a weak point, is the spectral decay graph:
http://stereos.about.com/od/Measurements/ss/Oppo-Digital-PM-1-Headphone-Measurements_4.htm

Grapth states it is slower?

Maybe that is the aspect of those that herd were trying to describe?
Edit:would that make it sound "thicker"?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

People are putting waaaaay too much stock in whatever comes after 10khz, which really isn't much of anything. Yes, you can hear it (I hear up to 17.5khz), but the information up there is so unimportant to the meat of the sound, I find it utterly ridiculous that people are bitching about a roll off after 10khz. 10khz is basically what we hear most in treble, so a roll off after that really doesn't do much. But hey, congrats if you want to nitpick that much. Truthfully, a roll off after 10khz is welcome, as that cuts out fatigue by a good amount. A headphone can still be very airy without emphasis after 10khz.

Test it yourself. Run Sinegen, and point it at 10khz (at your PREFERRED volume level). Go up slowly to around 16khz, then when you're there, rapidly move the slider up to 20khz. See if you can REALLY hear the difference. What you'll hear most is basically just artifacts at that point. Those who say they can hear 20khz... I laugh. Really, I do. Go from 18khz to 20khz. If 20khz goes silent, you're full of it.

 

[Audiolic]

Anybody saw the CSD plot..
 
(long decay at all freq.. what does it mean)
(spike in distortion and freq curve at 2khz.. )
 
anybody have found other measurements..

 

[jerg]

  Anybody saw the CSD plot..
 
(long decay at all freq.. what does it mean)
(spike in distortion and freq curve at 2khz.. )
 
anybody have found other measurements..

I don't think it's a long decay, it looks like the decay occurred at the time scale spot right above the "ms" label, and everything below that was the actual decay behaviour. The things that stand out are the 2-4kHz being dragged out, and the short ridge around 8.5kHz. Both look to be a little over 1 ms, so they are not negligible but not that significant either.