[Laird]

Their reply leads me to believe that it's probably necessary for Apps to be specifically written to take advantage of the Dual architecture.
 
Take Care,
David Baldock

It is simple - and no, you are wrong.
 
Apps are written to "write" to some number of channels (2 in this case - "left" and "right", in a surround-sound setup it might be 5, 6, 7, 8, or more channels). Dual architecture is about what happens AFTER that. The app does not know and does not care. The app barfs out N-channels of information. What the driver/OS/firmware/hardware does with that information post-facto is utterly invisible to the app - if the app and driver are written correctly. If "dual architecture" has an audible advantage and is properly-implemented, then the "app" has NOTHING to do with it.

 

[DBaldock9]

  It is simple - and no, you are wrong.
 
Apps are written to "write" to some number of channels (2 in this case - "left" and "right", in a surround-sound setup it might be 5, 6, 7, 8, or more channels). Dual architecture is about what happens AFTER that. The app does not know and does not care. The app barfs out N-channels of information. What the driver/OS/firmware/hardware does with that information post-facto is utterly invisible to the app - if the app and driver are written correctly. If "dual architecture" has an audible advantage and is properly-implemented, then the "app" has NOTHING to do with it.

 
 
So your take on it, is that the Onkyo driver isn't written correctly (based on this answer from Onkyo), since the third party apps appear to work fine using one DAC?
~~~


Onkyo USA - Hello David, when using the Onkyo Music APP both amplifiers and DAC's will be active when using the 2.5 or 3.5 output. We are not sure since we have not tested every third party APP but so far only one DAC is active. Thank you, CB
~~~
 
Regards,
David Baldock

 

[headwhacker]

  It is simple - and no, you are wrong.
 
Apps are written to "write" to some number of channels (2 in this case - "left" and "right", in a surround-sound setup it might be 5, 6, 7, 8, or more channels). Dual architecture is about what happens AFTER that. The app does not know and does not care. The app barfs out N-channels of information. What the driver/OS/firmware/hardware does with that information post-facto is utterly invisible to the app - if the app and driver are written correctly. If "dual architecture" has an audible advantage and is properly-implemented, then the "app" has NOTHING to do with it.

 
It's not simple as you want to make it to be without Onkyo giving the exact details. 3rd Party apps usually use the Android audio stack so their apps work in as many device as possible. However, the Android audio stack is limited. (e.g. the sampling rate is fixed at 48Khz). In order to circumvent that limitation, each DAP makers write a separate driver so their own music app can use it and take advantage of the hardware they put in the DAP. 
 
Of course, we can't be certain how 3rd party Apps access the hardware via the Android stack unless Onkyo reveals the full details of the block diagram. Best example is UAPP. It can only play hi-res files natively if you connect an en external DAC via USB on any Android device you install it. If it does not detect an external DAC it pops a message that says playback is passed to Android audio. This is because it can't see the exact hardware in the device. 

 

[Matrix Petka]

  Since I was curious about the Dual DAC / Dual Amp design of the DP-X1, I recently posted a couple of questions on the Onkyo USA Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/OnkyoUSA/posts/10155743980304689?comment_id=10155754772164689
 
Here are the questions, and replies -
~~~
David Baldock - I've got a technical question about a portable audio device.
In the Onkyo DP-X1 and DP-X1A, are the dual DACs and Dual Amplifier strings used when driving earphones from the Single-ended (3.5mm TRS) output? And, when driving earphones from the Balanced (2.5mm TRRS) output, are the dual DACs and Dual Amplifier strings used, when playing music with apps other than Onkyo Play Music? Thanks!
 

 


Onkyo USA - Hello David, when using the Onkyo Music APP both amplifiers and DAC's will be active when using the 2.5 or 3.5 output. We are not sure since we have not tested every third party APP but so far only one DAC is active. Thank you, CB








 
 
David Baldock - Thanks for the reply!

When I saw this on the product page -

"The DP-X1 has two amps and two digital/analog convertors which allow for extreme power and signal control. The double ESS Sabre ES9018K2M DACs and double ESS Sabre 9601K amps make balanced output possible via 2.5 mm output."

- I envisioned that one DAC & Amplifier would be for the Left Audio channel, and the other DAC & Amplifier would be for the Right Audio channel.

I know I'm hearing stereo audio when listening to third party Apps. So, as an Electronics Technician, I'm curious about this --- Are both DACs actually operating as Stereo devices, so that either one can send Left & Right Audio to the Dual Amplifiers? Thanks again!








 
 
Onkyo USA - Hi David, Both channels go through both amplifiers and DAC's. It is not left to one and right to the other. Thank you, CB
~~~
 
 
Their reply leads me to believe that it's probably necessary for Apps to be specifically written to take advantage of the Dual architecture.
 
Take Care,
David Baldock

 
Onkyo, Onkyo.... Support, support.... Nothing new - everything going wrong with Onkyo infamous "service". Dual architecture it is working only on balanced mode, which turns on  when load it is connected to 2,5mm output. All DAC and amplifiers are working on Android and third party apps are not influencing dual architecture use.

 

[Matrix Petka]

   
Spot on.
 
The quality of the X1A may be superb but that of the original X1 was sorely lacking in relation to the output jacks. Onkyo's only reaction was to cynically withdraw the optional extended warranty that was originally available in the home market.
 
Riley has commented on the abysmal standard of "support" from Onkyo USA and I've had exactly the same frustration in the UK.
 
The X1 meets my needs for the moment but I won't be buying any more Onkyo products.

 
Totaly agree. Shame on Onkyo. X1 it was last time when Onkyo got my money.

 

[Matrix Petka]

  ONKYO officially announced their new Hi-Res smartphone DP-CMX1 "GRANBEAT" will go on sale end of February in Japan.
The price is supposed to be around 84,800JPY.

 
Another one "beta test"? First try with mobile audio was .... kind of disaster. Smart phone from audio company? Well, will see. Free advice - do not run to be among first buyers.

 

[theminstrel]

I'm very glad Onkyo put the adjustable DAC on this. Sharp is horribly sibilant through my T1p's, "Short" massively decreased that and adds body without taking away from upper-treble sparkle.I wonder how?

 

[Riley Beale]

So is the DPX1A a bad choice for me?  I know going in there really is no after sale support and I understand that  Onkyo USA are full of bad information.  They do not know their own products so they try to balance that with telling people completely wrong information or just leave them on hold until they hang up with a message during hold saying in a very obnoxious voice Thank you for calling Onkyo someone will be with you soon.
 
Is there a dap that would suit my needs better.  Clear treble with solid bass slightly warm mids.  2 micro sd cards or one sd card.  Full touchscreen.  Long battery life at least very close to 10 hours.  Something protable that will fit in a pocket.  Something that could drive my Shure SE846 and V-Moda M-100 as well as an Audeze EL8 in the future,  Or is the DPX1A good for me as I was planning.  Needs to cost less than $800.00 and be easy to purchase in the US.  I do not need any internet streaming wifi or the like.  I also do not have any desire to go balanced for now. 
 
Please PM me with suggestions.  I do not want to derail this thread.
 
Sorry for asking this again.  I am just still a bit nervous about buying an expensive dap.
 
Thank you

Riley

 

[Matrix Petka]

  I'm very glad Onkyo put the adjustable DAC on this. Sharp is horribly sibilant through my T1p's, "Short" massively decreased that and adds body without taking away from upper-treble sparkle.I wonder how?

 
Bellow you will find some explanations and graphs about filters:
 
http://archimago.blogspot.lt/2013/06/measurements-digital-filters-and.html

 

[theminstrel]

   
Bellow you will find some explanations and graphs about filters:
 
http://archimago.blogspot.lt/2013/06/measurements-digital-filters-and.html

Thanks, that's fascinating! I did see a filter waveform graph in the brochure now I think of it! Short is the minimal setting.

 

[Matrix Petka]

  Thanks, that's fascinating! I did see a filter waveform graph in the brochure now I think of it! Short is the minimal setting.

 
My pleasure
Have some fun with filters settings

 

[Rhythmy]

   
Another one "beta test"? First try with mobile audio was .... kind of disaster. Smart phone from audio company? Well, will see. Free advice - do not run to be among first buyers.

Yea I'll wait for some review from audiophiles in Japan. The thing is there is the new technology to separate DAP module from phone module in that gear so it would be different from your past experience.

 

[Matrix Petka]

  Yea I'll wait for some review from audiophiles in Japan. The thing is there is the new technology to separate DAP module from phone module in that gear so it would be different from your past experience.

 
Onkyo it is dead for me
Hope dies the last.
I see main problems:
1.Battery life - phone lasting 4 hours?
2.Lackof experience in smart phones production at all.
3.Heavy cost cutting.
Iterference problem not the main thing.

 

[addyg]

   
Onkyo it is dead for me
Hope dies the last.
I see main problems:
1.Battery life - phone lasting 4 hours?
2.Lackof experience in smart phones production at all.
3.Heavy cost cutting.
Iterference problem not the main thing.

 
Actually, the spec of dpcmx1 said 22 hours for listening.

 

[Matrix Petka]

   
Actually, the spec of dpcmx1 said 22 hours for listening.

 
Spec are on paper....
My Onkyo lasts about 4-5 hours in airplane mode, not very loud listening, very depending on files resolution. HR files consumes lot of processor and all goes from battery. If to use balanced - it run out much more quicker.
Of course if somebody will be listening mp3 files and not browsing internet... 22 hours ... Maybe.
One thing it is paper, another - real life.