ONKYO DP-X1 | Dual Sabre Dacs | Balanced | Sabre BTL Amp | MQA | DSD 256 | Android 5 |

Jun 23, 2016 at 4:27 AM Post #9,496 of 16,375
  ah damn....i just recently re-terminated my 3.5mm jack to balanced....but i can still plug into this dp-x1 witht his balance jack?

 
Dude, what you now need is a 3.5 mm TRRS to 2.5 mm TRRS adapater (Double Helix Cables makes excellent ultrashort adapters, but contact DHC as this adapter would be a custom one). Then you can use the 2.5 mm TRRS balanced output of the Onkyo DP-X1
 
Or, re-terminate the cable from 3.5 mm TRRS to 2.5 mm TRRS jack.
 
DO NOT INSERT 3.5 mm TRRS into the DP-X1 3.5 mm TRS!!! You might short the device!!!
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 4:30 AM Post #9,497 of 16,375
Thank you, your posts have been really helpful! Indeed kt does look like it'll be a pain to find the buttons when they're in your pocket with the Dignis case.

 
No problem!
 
Yes the buttons are a tad harder to find and press but I got used to it.
 
In spite of that, the quality of the Dignis Design LUNO case, the aesthetics, and durable nature, takes major precedence over the official DPA-PUX1 case.
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 5:08 AM Post #9,498 of 16,375
  Hi @bettyn, did you see my post regarding multiple aftermarket headphone cables?
 
Just to reiterate, if you have the budget and want the best cables, go for Double Helix Cables.
If you don't want to pay that much but still want amazing cables, PETERK and Moon Audio Dragon Series will be great.
If you want a cable at a budget, Forza AudioWorks.
 
Head-Fi'ers have made other suggestions too, so do research them all, lots of choice!
 
Two things I would like to say:
  1. Do NOT opt for gold and copper or gold and silver cables. Gold is a poor electrical conductor, worse than copper and really, really worse in comparison to silver.
    This is really basic, school science, never mind advanced academia.
    Those who like their gold infused cables may do so because of different tones in terms of sound, previous unknown knowledge of gold's electrical properties, placebo, or buyer's remorse.
     
  2. Having silver in a cable, whether as a combination between copper and silver, or pure silver alone, does NOT mean music will be cold, analytical, harsh, sibilant, etc. It is thought these ideas are borne from the way humans observe certain colour cues, because warmer colours like copper and gold give the impression of warmth, whereas silver, titanium and aluminium give of a colder impression and feel.
    Silver cables, especially pure silver, if done well, allow music to be effortless, organic, holographic.
 
 
Lastly, I personally don't think cables themselves have specific sound signatures. The whole point of getting audiophile cables is to have better electrical conductivity, lower noise floor, and reduction of noise itself from EMI, RFI, etc.
By reducing noise, the amplifier you use will not need to unnecessarily work and amplify any noise coming from the cable, and the transducer (speakers or headphones/earphones) won't need to playback that noise.
You cannot get rid of noise completely, but the more that noise is diminished in cables, and the more noise floor is lowered, then the amplifier has more power and reserve power to amplify music rather than noise, as does the transducers to playback music rather than noise.
Noise also affects DAC's and phono amp's but I hope you get the general gist.
Increasing electrical conductivity is also key; this means electrical signals from source to amp to transducer can be quicker, thus reproduction of music more accurate (whether that is neutral or musical depends on your equipment and tastes of course; music should be fun to you). The fastest known speed of source to ear of audio is real life music, and that cannot be replicated, but using advanced equipment and better cables, we can try to be just as fast.
So, for me, when some says this cable sounds this or that, I translate that as the cable having reduced certain noise but not others (own noise, or allowed some other noise to get through), as well as how good of an electrical conductor that cable is. We can only make opinions on how a cable sounds compared directly to another cable.
The big thing to understand is that noise is audible, and can be from the entire gamut of the sound frequency (whether audible or not). Noise is not specific to a set of frequencies. I hope this highlights how difficult for manufacturer's, in many industries including audio, find it difficult to reduce noise, but we are much better at this than ever before. 
 
In my case, my Double Helix Cables Elite Molecule 22 OCC Silver Litz (22AWG) 4-Wire balanced cable does indeed sound different to my previous DHC Molecule Elite Fusion (copper and silver litz) 4-Wire balanced cable that I use with my Audeze EL-8 Titanium headphones.
The differences are similar to what I spoke about pure silver cables; my new DHC Molecule Elite 22 Silver cable is breathtakingly effortless, supremely holographic, almost no grain when I listen to music, and much wider and taller soundstage.
My previous DHC Molecule Elite Fusion was amazing over the stock El-8 cable but it now sounds a bit congested, grainy. and a tad slower, than my new silver cable.
I don't attribute this solely as 'sound signature' for each, but that one cable is better at lowering noise and has better electrical conductivity over the other. I could have only made these impressions by directly relating one cable to another. For example, if I described the sound difference of my older DHC Molecule Elite Fusion over the the stock EL-8 cable (and I had never heard the silver one), the comments I made about the my Silver cable would describe the Fusion cable vs stock.
 
It is difficult to wrap anyone's head regarding cables and benefits, but the above is my take on this.
As long as you research well, and continue to get the support of this community, you'll be fine.
 
Good luck on whichever cable manufacturer you choose by the way, and let us know who you choose and what cable you went for ^^

 
Some words for gold (just to make all 100% clear). Of course, gold it is worst conductor of all 3 (to compare with silver and copper). But ... it is used still it super duper things with just one excuse - oxidation of copper it is biggest and fastest, then it goes silver. Oxidation drops down conductivity significantly.
Anyway, I do not believe that I can discern silver and copper cable in blind listening test. On other side, if I can afford something best, I will go for it - of course, for reasonable price (headphones cable can't be more expensive than headphones itself :)
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 6:06 AM Post #9,500 of 16,375
   
Some words for gold (just to make all 100% clear). Of course, gold it is worst conductor of all 3 (to compare with silver and copper). But ... it is used still it super duper things with just one excuse - oxidation of copper it is biggest and fastest, then it goes silver. Oxidation drops down conductivity significantly.
Anyway, I do not believe that I can discern silver and copper cable in blind listening test. On other side, if I can afford something best, I will go for it - of course, for reasonable price (headphones cable can't be more expensive than headphones itself :)

 
I wasn't referring to gold platted jacks or similar; that is fine to use.
 
Referring to oxidation, the reason I prefer Litz cables is because a thin enamel is used on each cable strand to effectively stop oxidation from occurring (a near perfect solution, though nothing is ever 100%).
So, using copper or silver Litz cables gives me confidence and eases such concerns.
 
Gold as a signal conductor is just a very, very poor idea, and is a horrible use of such a great metal. Gold can be used to protect things, but should not, ever, be used to conduct electricity.
This is not just an opinion, this is genuine real science.
 
I agree with you of course that some people may not discern between different metal conductors in cables (though I chalk that up to how well-made and designed a cable is first).
However, for me, the cost of cable is not relative to the cost of the headphone. If I can maximise the potential of a certain headphone as far as I can, then I don't mind pouring in the investment to do so.
Our entire hobby is based on this logic. Look at DAP's that cost more than the headphones that most people use with. A cable is just as important in a chain of equipment.
I have a beautiful DHC Molecule Elite 22 pure silver cable that costs around $1000, used in my $700 Audeze EL-8 Titanium headphones, and Onkyo DP-X1 that I paid about $500.00 imported including shipping and accessories (though the RRP is around $710 without accessories).
That is not something you just do, it's not just about the music; my passion for audio and its intricacies is very real.
I haven't even spoken about my upcoming Cavalli Audio Carbon amp, DHC 2.5 mm to 2x 3-Pin XLR Complement4 Silver interconnect, and DHC 2.5 mm to 4-Pin ultrashort adapter that will complete my personal reference system (with the DP-X1 being my frontend source).
I'm also working with Peter in finding a way to get another $1000 DHC Molecule Elite 22 Silver cable but for my Meze Headphones 99 Classics (this is project that may or may not work...)! The 99 Classics cost $309.00!!!
(My older system resolved around a laptop and three pieces of iFi Audio USB solutions, all amazing, but I am downsizing my entire system to just some key, high-end pieces of gear that can be used at home or away).
 
However, the only way I justify such crazy cables is if the headphones and gear I use are worth it, and that said gear can scale.
For example, my KEF Audio M500 scales wonderfully with better equipment, but after a certain point plateaus off; I elected not to get an aftermarket cable for it.
Ditto my old Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro's.
 
One more thing; I have been bitten by bad expensive cables, but with the gracious help of this community, and manufacturer's and audio reviewers who have become actual friends (I don't tell people who I know, but it's a lot) have helped me get to where I am.
It's not just gear that I have acquired, but knowledge, meaning I can now be a better judge of gear, and help others.
Not only did I learn from my mistakes and learn from my peers and friends, but I make a concerted effort to help others and myself as well, because it's SO FUN! <3
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 6:55 AM Post #9,501 of 16,375
 
I'll get back to audio, but: "archery and ale societies"! Who thought that was a good idea? Actually, oddly enough, in my youth I also was into archery and thought I was so good that my friend and I played chicken across a field with compound bows and arrows. No joke, I accidentally shot him in the knee cap and I didn't have a drink in me. (sigh, youth)
 
As for audio, sorry, I was speaking hypothetically about the Woo mono blocks, just because they're so imposing. My dream amp is actually the one right next to me: the Moon Neo 430HA. I'm also a big fan of Peter's cables and at present I'm using one of his molecule elites. I might go up to the Complement4 but everything sounds so good right now. 
 
As for the Fiio X7 vs. DPX1, I'm writing up a shootout right now. It is–long–and totally opinionated so it may or may not be worth reading, but I thought I'd share my experience as I have them both now. I'm sorry SD, its going to be about the balanced (grin). 

 
Yeah, UK uni Archery competitions at the Isle of Man, with stupendous amount of booze, was the GREATEST IDEA EVER said no one ever except said drunken uni archers WOOT! -_-
Lol, so your friend was an amazing, fun-loving, amazeballs person, until he got an arrow to the knee ;)
 

(Source: Peter Took An Arrow To The Knee by EliteSaiyanWarrior).
 
The Simaudio Moon 430HA (or 430HAD with DAC) is one of the most amazing headphone amps and preamp in the world, and deserves more praise.
Personally, my dream amps are one of four:
  1. iFi Audio Pro iCan
  2. Pass Labs HPA-1 balanced (which they said they are thinking about. Currently only the SE HPA-1 exists...)
  3. Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold
  4. Cavalli Audio Tungsten (SOOOO WANT!)
 
I am getting the Cavalli Audio Carbon, and will use DHC cables to connect DP-X1 to Carbon.
However, if anyone offered to give us for free legit Woo Audio WA234's...GOODBYE LIFE you was **** but now @edwardsean and I have have monoblock amps weeee....if only this was real...cries...
 
The Molecule Elite series is amazeballs dude, but Peter has outdone himself in making the Molecule Elite 22 series, which is basically a Complement4 cable without the crazy shielding and in a Molecule guise; flexibility and extreme cable tech combined!
 
I think we all look forward to your comparisons between FiiO X7 and Onkyo DP-X1 too dude, thank you!
 
^^
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:04 AM Post #9,502 of 16,375
   
Fair enough, I actually did miss the part where you said earlier that you were purely talking about sound quality. My mistake on branching off into talking about features.
 
Just curious, in what order would you rate the DAPs you mention purely in terms of sound quality? I think I have a general idea based on your other posts, but I would love to hear directly from you.

 
No problem ^^
 
Erm, LETS GO!
 
  • Questyle QP1R
  • Astell and Kern AK380
  • Onkyo DP-X1
  • Lotoo Paw Gold
  • Acoustic Research AR-M2
  • Venturecraft Valoq
  • Astell and Kern AK320/AK300
  • Pioneer XDP-100R
  • Acoustic Research AR-M20
 
Honourable mention goes to Altmann Tera-Player, but I would never, ever recommend that to anyone, EVER.
 
I'm not going to explain why, because that would be outside the scope of this thread and will take me approx 17 pages, based on my infamous wall-of-text posts I do...
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:06 AM Post #9,503 of 16,375
I totally agree - there is nothing too much expensive, when it comes about hobby. All about fun. (I can tell much about my collection of more than 300 Yixing teapots and single estate Chinese tea their costs :)
Great to join all this crazy people - without you there never will be progress in HiFi sound!
Let's have fun......
 
Dreaming about Liquid Fire ... who knows? :)
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:08 AM Post #9,504 of 16,375
Interesting!!
 
I would love to know if anyone has compared the DP-X1 to a Hifiman 901 or 901s with balanced amp card (same dual ESS9018 DAC combo and balanced amps) or to the AK100 with Gloveaudio A1 from CEntrance (ESS Sabre DAC with balanced amplifier). Since eI already have these two but am a bit tired with the old school UI.
 
Cheers and thanks in advance!
 
 
EDIT: @TheOneInYellow You will love the Liquid Carbon ;-)
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:21 AM Post #9,505 of 16,375
   
No problem ^^
 
Erm, LETS GO!
 
  • Questyle QP1R
  • Astell and Kern AK380
  • Onkyo DP-X1
  • Lotoo Paw Gold
  • Acoustic Research AR-M2
  • Venturecraft Valoq
  • Astell and Kern AK320/AK300
  • Pioneer XDP-100R
  • Acoustic Research AR-M20
 
Honourable mention goes to Altmann Tera-Player, but I would never, ever recommend that to anyone, EVER.
 
I'm not going to explain why, because that would be outside the scope of this thread and will take me approx 17 pages, based on my infamous wall-of-text posts I do...

This classification also applies to the speech unbalanced?
l onkyo unbalanced and more than fiio x5ii, x7, DX80 and DX90?
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:30 AM Post #9,506 of 16,375
  I totally agree - there is nothing too much expensive, when it comes about hobby. All about fun. (I can tell much about my collection of more than 300 Yixing teapots and single estate Chinese tea their costs :)
Great to join all this crazy people - without you there never will be progress in HiFi sound!
Let's have fun......
 
Dreaming about Liquid Fire ... who knows? :)

 
 
Cavalli Audio Liquid Fire...drool...
 
Yeah, cost is subjective, but should be reasonable to the end user.
I only go this far if I believe there to be actual worth and benefit, not to show off.
 
Why did I elect for EL-8 Ti? Last year, I could only afford 2015 EL-8 CB, and via RMA got updated EL-8 Ti, but I wanted something for home and away.
So yes, I could have used the money I spent on cables and headphones to get (2016) LCD-3, but I bought my gear in parts, not all together, and with distinct purpose and use. Everything has a place.
Sure, I BLOODY WANT a 2016 LCD-4 200 Ohm or Focal Utopia with DHC Complement4 Silver cables, but that's a future consideration.
So, whilst I have the EL-8 Titanium, why not max it out? With the Elite 22 Silver cable, I cannot go higher (Complement4 for EL-8 is silly and inflexible so not gonna happen, and Elite 22 is a Complement4 anyway without the insane sheathing).
My Audeze EL-8 Ti with DHC Molecule Elite 22 Silver cable is the worlds best setup of this combo, the best TOTL EL-8 setup currently. But I don't care if it is or not, all I know is that this is just one of the best sounding combination of gears I have ever had the pleasure to listen to.
 
The Sine is also a great choice but I wanted an different sound, so the Meze 99 Classics is my alternative, has it's own character, and wonderful sound.
 
  EDIT: @TheOneInYellow You will love the Liquid Carbon ;-)

 
Yay thanks @Koolpep!
 
Still want iFi Audio Pro iCan, but the 2nd gen Liquid Carbon is amazing in itself, and I am glad I went for it! ^^
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:49 AM Post #9,507 of 16,375
  This classification also applies to the speech unbalanced?
l onkyo unbalanced and more than fiio x5ii, x7, DX80 and DX90?

 
The original question was best sounding DAP's, and that includes balanced and unbalanced DAP's.
 
Some of the best audio gear in the world can either be balanced or single-ended, such as Pass Labs HPA-1, Viva Egoista, iFi Audio Retro Stereo 50, iFi Audio Pro iCan, Wells Audio Headtrip, Schiit Audio Ragnarok, Nagra HD DAC, Audio-Technica AT-HA5050H, Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold/Glass/Carbon or Crimson Fire, so on and so forth.
 
So, I posted a list of best sounding DAP's to me, from best to worst, ignoring topology, features, etc.
 
I have not heard FiiO X5ii, iBasso DX80 or DX90, but my list is just that.
 
Others can chime in.
 
^^
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 7:55 AM Post #9,508 of 16,375
Jun 23, 2016 at 8:23 AM Post #9,509 of 16,375
Incoming bonus pic!
 
Listening to Autechre's elseq 1 - 5 in 24 bit/44.1 kHz.
Source is Onkyo DP-X1 digital audio player set to High Gain, balanced ACG mode.
Headphones are Audeze EL-8 Titanium (part of the 2016 EL-8 line).
Headphone cable is Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite 22 OCC Silver Litz (22AWG) 4-Wire balanced cable with Eidolic compact 2.5 mm TRRS jack. This cable is identical to the main feature of Complement4 line but without the extra shielding.
 


 
Jun 23, 2016 at 8:37 AM Post #9,510 of 16,375
Hmm, I have an Asus Dark Knight RT-N66U with very powerful 2.4 and 5 gHz signals on three heavy duty aerials.
However I've not tested bandwidth. Will look into this tomorrow...
Er, no, put PM me and we'll talk as I'd love to hear the Questyle QP1R, but no guarantees...
Though perhaps pm me tomorrow as it's 00:15 atm ha ha (I ain't sleeping, got music to listen to!).
Patience, and srsly I WANT NOBLE K10!

You'll love this DAP, I really am positive.
Previous posts on excellent SE playback, and even better playback, sounded cool.
Now that I have the DP-X1 and I can attest to the SE sonics...I genuinely cannot fathom how it can get better. I really wish I had more balanced gear than I do, which is zero btw (atm).

SE means unbalanced?
 

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