ONKYO DP-X1 | Dual Sabre Dacs | Balanced | Sabre BTL Amp | MQA | DSD 256 | Android 5 |
Feb 9, 2016 at 12:23 PM Post #5,117 of 16,328
Could someone recommend a very good DAP that also offers FM chip, not FM app? Not Sony A-series Walkman.

There is no reason anymore since the CPU can do all that.  My (way) old Sony MZG-755 MD player does have FM/AM build into its inline remote, but now a days all you need is the IEM/headphone cord to act as an antenna.
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 1:29 PM Post #5,119 of 16,328
Are you sure? 

It seems to me its the original [COLOR=888888]ONKYO DPA-PUX1 b [/COLOR][COLOR=888888](DP-X1-SLIM LEATHER CASE black)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=888888]The Dignis looks different. See earlier pics in thread[/COLOR]


I'm sorry. Should be DPA-PUX1.
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 2:21 PM Post #5,120 of 16,328
Oh man, my balanced cable has been on its way for a week now. Lu ky I can feed the Mojo from dp-x1 to sort of simulate balanced quality to make the wait easier, ha ha


What balanced cable did you go for (and for what IEM's)? Hope it's a pleasure to listen to!
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 3:45 PM Post #5,121 of 16,328
Been in touch with Jeongjae as well. Getting the Dignis one. Tried to cancel to -again- delayed DPU case from PriceJapan but still haven't gotten a reply from Kaneda-san. If personally feel like a case is a necessity with the DP-X1. The volume dial isn't as recessed as I'd like and it grips too easily in my jacket pocket. When I walk the volume keeps changing from the motions. Added layer of the case should give enough clearance hopefully.


Did you manage to cancel the Onkyo case from PriceJapan?
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 4:20 PM Post #5,122 of 16,328
@Cagin, you know you can set the volume dial to be locked when the screen is off right? That way you don't need to worry about the volume being adjusted unless you are doing it.
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 5:19 PM Post #5,123 of 16,328
Is it likely that a firmware update will give 3rd party apps access to DP-X1 DACs?

Honestly, I don't see any proof that they AREN'T able to access it.  3rd party audio apps sound literally the same to me as the stock app with the same files.  It'd be silly for Onkyo to implement the Android OS otherwise.  I've only seen issues with apps that are purposefully written to use CPU decoding.  Apps that use the standard Android APIs for audio handling sound literally exactly the same as the stock player app.  There's literally no reason why they wouldn't, from a technical perspective.  Onkyo writes the drivers that interact between the Android audio subsystem and the hardware.  All digital audio needs to go through this subsystem at some point to be transformed into analog audio.  That is being done by the DAC chip.  The 3rd party apps that are using the CPU are doing extra processing -- they're decoding the audio files with the CPU to transform them into a known digital waveform, which then gets sent off to the internal DAC (and gets sent to the amp and then to the physical headphone outputs).  There is literally no way for the audio to go to your headphones if it doesn't go through the DAC chip.
 
Now, the 3rd party apps may not be making use of the hardware decoding.  The DAC chips have built-in hardware support for many formats -- FLAC, MP3, APE, etc (as well as standard PCM wav).  When apps are written to make use of the hardware (that is, they offload processing to Android), they can send those native formats as digital samples directly to the DAC chip, which does hardware decoding of those formats (and converts the digital signals into analog signals, which get amplified by the internal amplifiers, and sent out of the headphone jack).  Onkyo would have written the Android audio driver as such to let Android know which formats were natively supported by the DAC hardware.  These formats would get sent natively, without any CPU processing, to the DAC chip for decoding.  This should be completely seamless as far as software goes.  For an app developer, they would simply call the Android audio APIs and pass in the file.  The Android audio subsystem handles the rest.  If the DAC hardware doesn't support a format, the Android audio system then falls back to using the CPU -- either the CPU may support the format natively in its own DAC, or there is a software implementation for decoding the format which make use of the general purpose CPU to do the math necessary to produce a waveform.  The 3rd party apps that have been reported as having trouble are explicitly written to do this last, least efficient process.  For every file format, they have a software library that uses the general purpose CPU to convert those formats from, say, MP3 to PCM WAV using the CPU exclusively.  This waveform is then passed to the DAC, where it is converted from a digital signal to an analog signal, and is then sent through the amplifiers and out the headphone jack.  See, even when the 3rd party apps bypass the built-in CODECs in both the DAC chip and CPU, they still need to use the DAC chip to convert a digital signal into an analog one.  There's no way around that, so they are definitely using the built-in DAC chip.  If they weren't, you'd have no sound output, and that's clearly not the case.
 
To my ears, 3rd party apps are definitely making use of the internal hardware.  Playing the exact same files, the sound output is exactly the same as with the stock app.  So, even if 3rd party apps WEREN'T using the internal hardware (which they totally are, but for the sake of argument I'll let it go), they sound exactly the same as the stock app, so what does it really matter?  No matter what, the audio sounds great, and that's the entire point.  If you can't tell a difference, does it really matter?  Just enjoy the device.
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 6:49 PM Post #5,124 of 16,328
@sq3rjick, well this is an area I have zero knowledge in so I can only defer to your apparent familiarity with these matters. Frankly there was a lot of scare mongering going on in the thread a while back with people talking about how bad 3rd party apps sounded and that was because they were only using the CPU for the decoding and not being able to take advantage of the hardware DAC circuitry. I understand that an application such as Neutron for instance, an app I have used for years, is one such app that would not be able to take advantage of the hardware DAC and use the least efficient means of getting audio out as you put it. I'm wondering if there is a way to tell which apps have this same characteristic handling? Anyway, as you say, the apps all sound the same to me and to this point I have not had an issue, even when I used Neutron it sounded fantastic. My understanding is that the audio on the chip with the Snapdragon CPU is actually pretty good.
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 6:53 PM Post #5,125 of 16,328
Here's a question for the ones lucky enough to run the DAP balanced: how does it sound using third party apps in balanced mode? There's no way the DAP would run balanced through the vanilla Snapdragon DAC, so you can be certain the proper sound chips are at work.
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 7:35 PM Post #5,126 of 16,328
Here's a question for the ones lucky enough to run the DAP balanced: how does it sound using third party apps in balanced mode? There's no way the DAP would run balanced through the vanilla Snapdragon DAC, so you can be certain the proper sound chips are at work.

I am listening right now on Neutron in balanced mode and it sounds same as stock player balanced. AIFF file.
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 8:14 PM Post #5,129 of 16,328
My wait is over, thank you Tenso. (but next time use a box, not a bag to ship it.)
confused_face.gif

 

 
Feb 9, 2016 at 9:52 PM Post #5,130 of 16,328

 
As one of the first owner of DP-X1 here, I was telling people that there isn't any Qualcomm DAC but only apps that either can utilize it properly or not but i guess this new Android based DAP territory is still quite a no man's land.
 

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