[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif did anyone compare the "new" HD650 to K701?

I could. I've had both for quite some time. But it would be a study in contrasts. Those two phones are about as different as headphones get (while both being excellent).
If it's really true that there hasn't been a comparison I'll work on something.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif They rely on the past "reputation" of the HD650s, and the ignorance of the buyers. Quality control integrity is simply irrelevant to them.

That seems a pretty wild statement. I can't see anything in what I've read of this thread (which admittedly is not all of it) to suggest that Sennheiser now considers quality control "integrity" (whatever that may mean) to be irrelevant. You must have a "deep throat" at Sennheiser.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That seems a pretty wild statement. I can't see anything in what I've read of this thread (which admittedly is not all of it) to suggest that Sennheiser now considers quality control "integrity" (whatever that may mean) to be irrelevant. You must have a "deep throat" at Sennheiser.

Yes... it is...

I'm not referring to the "quality" of the components per se...

I'm referring to their adherence to the specs for the components used in any production run. A lot of manufacturers, which have multiple similar product lines, will occasionally use, whatever similar components they have in stock, to complete a production run, if they're similar - rather than lose the efficiencies of completing the run. That's why they almost all include disclosures that they may change the specs for a product, without notice to buyers.

This may explain why they have some HD580s, with HD650 drivers, or vice versa - rather, than that they just permanently changed the specs of the HD650s, or HD580s. Though... they certainly could have permanently changed the specs - to use the same drivers. Whatever the cause... they did end up with the same drivers in both the HD580s and HD650s, at least for some of their units - because they are identical for some of their units... and.. their sound is identical.

The unsuspecting buyers have no idea that they've done so... unless... they just happen to discover it... as we have. And... many may not even care. I know I don't, since my "new" HD580s are essentially the same as the "new" HD650s, but for half the price.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes... it is... I'm not referring to the "quality" of the components per se... I'm referring to their adherence to the specs for the components used in any production run. A lot of manufacturers, which have multiple similar product lines, will occasionally use, whatever similar components they have in stock, to complete a production run, if they're similar - rather than lose the efficiencies of completing the run. That's why they almost all include disclosures that they may change the specs for a product, without notice to buyers. This may explain why they have some HD580s, with HD650 drivers, or vice versa - rather, than that they just permanently changed the specs of the HD650s, or HD580s. Though... they certainly could have permanently changed the specs - to use the same drivers. Whatever the cause... they did end up with the same drivers in both the HD580s and HD650s, at least for some of their units - because they are identical for some of their units... and.. their sound is identical. The unsuspecting buyers have no idea that they've done so... unless... they just happen to discover it... as we have. And... many may not even care. I know I don't, since my "new" HD580s are essentially the same as the "new" HD650s, but for half the price.

None of the above suggests that Sennheiser are no longer concerned with quality control. As has been remarked here, suppliers and components change over a long model run. This is unavoidable. In terms of quality control, Sennheiser's job is not to explain and apologise for every change, but to ensure as much as is humanly possible that the buyer gets the product he's expecting, the product he's been led to believe he'll be getting from previous reviews and general reputation; a product that, within the constraints of the above changes, adheres to the original specifications. I don't see that anything has been discovered by users to suggest that Sennheiser no longer cares about quality control, or that they're just using up any old parts to maximise profit. They have a hard-won reputation which I'm sure they would want to protect at all costs. And, let's face it, there are plenty of people out there (not naming names) prepared to question and suspect their motives and methods on the flimsiest of evidence.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

weird...looks like i have the newer pair with the metallic screen dampener. got mines in late 2007. but mines sound dark/mellower/veiled closer in description to the older HD650's. What?

 

[sfmatt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif weird...looks like i have the newer pair with the metallic screen dampener. got mines in late 2007. but mines sound dark/mellower/veiled closer in description to the older HD650's. What?

The HD650 I received 2 weeks ago (same drivers as yours it seems) are definitively somewhat dark compared to HD600, there's no "bite" in the trebble like with HD600 but they don't sound slow or intimate. The treble smoothing/rolloff is just part of the sound signature, it's not a veil. They're fast but not crisp.

It happened the other way round for me, I found HD600 too bright after a year so I bought HD650 on impulse (I should have got a better amp first). Listening to both it's easy to imagine the opposite situation, wanting more sparkle after a while on your HD650.

They are both excellent headphones with trade-offs. My ideal phones would have a treble energy between both.
I will likely keep HD650 in the end. Despite finding HD600 better all-arounder phones by a small margin, I can listen to HD650 all day long whereas listening fatigue creeps in after 2-3 hours with HD600 because of their brightness.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

funny thing is i never found my version to be fast, clear, or snappy at all. maybe the dampening material really had no affect at all? i'm thinking maybe they changed the material in 2006 and tweaked the drivers a bit in the 2008 models?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who knows... I don't know why the Senns I've tried with the "white / silver / metalic" colored material sounded faster, brighter, clearer than those I've tried with the "black silk" material. I just know they did / do. And... I know... the "new" HD650s I bought last fall from J&R, sounded much faster, brighter, clearer than my "old" ones did, and they sounded identical to my "new" HD580s (modded). I tend to think it is more likely the result of a change in the drivers, than in the material used. I think the change in the material color, may have just been coincident with the change in drivers, and the change in their sound. Though, I suppose the pads could have been different as well - I didn't notice. And... I suppose... if you just bought a pair with black fabric, rather than the white / silver fabric - its possible you got an old pair... or... they've begun using the "black silk" fabric again.

i think gradofan2 maybe right...

edit: out of curiosity i also bought a new pair from J&R (both have metallic/silver material). i found that the new pair was noticeably clearer. i wouldn't say fast, but it is definitely not as relaxed sounding as the older pair of 650's i had (this was a comparison between old pair with zu cable and new pair with stock cable). the bass is much tighter, compared to the new pair the old bass sounded sloppy. the pads are definitely beefier and firmer than the old pads and has a tighter feel due to the thickness. i also did a test with switching the new pads onto the older pair and it made no difference in sound, so it clearly isn't the pads. my old pair was bought in mid 2007. don't know when this new pair was made but they definitely changed something with the newer 650's during 2008. they are much improved; you could call them "HD650i's". time to sell off my old pair.

 

[noparanoia]

I'm sorry to bump such an ancient thread. I have just sent my HD650s to sennheiser to be repaired because the left channel dropped out. They are about 4 years old and have been used a lot so I am worried that there will be a mismatch of drivers if they put a new one in.
I am wondering what they are likely do for the repair, what parts they will use and what effect that may or may not have on the sound.
 
One other question: after the left channel cut out, the right channel seemed to sound all weird also. It was all quiet and lacking in power, but I only heard it for around 5 seconds and then I turned everything off to minimise damage so I can't be sure. Can having a channel just drop out like that damage you amp or the remaining channel?

 

[nikongod]

If your amp blew up it can damage anything.
 
Otherwise its your cable 98.7654321% of the time.
 
As far as what parts they will use, only they will know until you get them back. Ask them. OTOH, this is head-fi so speculation is always welcome.

 

[noparanoia]

Well it happened. I got my HD650s back today and I now have one old type driver and one new type. So depending on the reality of old/new HD650s and burn-in I may have a pretty miss-matched headphone on my hands here. I have got to say that right now they sound very odd to me, but I am withholding further judgement for a couple of weeks. Has any one got any ideas of how I could get myself out of this stupid mess.

 

[PointyFox]

Quote:

Well it happened. I got my HD650s back today and I now have one old type driver and one new type. So depending on the reality of old/new HD650s and burn-in I may have a pretty miss-matched headphone on my hands here. I have got to say that right now they sound very odd to me, but I am withholding further judgement for a couple of weeks. Has any one got any ideas of how I could get myself out of this stupid mess.

Try muting one channel and listening to a mono sample, then mute the other channel and listen to see if they're the same. 
If not, try doing the same with the left and right channels swapped and see if the sound changes.  If it does, your cable or amp has a problem. 
 
To me, the new black silk and metal mesh material sounds the same.  I've never heard the really old black paper type.
 
I tried out old HD600 vs. new HD650, and they sounded identical other than the HD650 having slightly louder bass and HD600 having more treble.  I kept the HD600 as the extra treble sounded more natural.

 

[Angelic]

Bought used pair of HD580, with white cellulose mesh material. Did someone else have this type of drivers?

 

[voodoohao]

Hmm if my HD600s were bought back in 2009 is it considered the new or old version? And what's the difference ( if any ) between these versions?

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Well it happened. I got my HD650s back today and I now have one old type driver and one new type. So depending on the reality of old/new HD650s and burn-in I may have a pretty miss-matched headphone on my hands here. I have got to say that right now they sound very odd to me, but I am withholding further judgement for a couple of weeks. Has any one got any ideas of how I could get myself out of this stupid mess.

It's been suggested, and it sounds reasonable, that the reason Sennheiser changed to the new material was that it was easier to attach and maintained tension more reliably, and for no other reason. Thus old versions will not sound different unless they've lost tension; if they haven't, they should sound exactly the same (which explains why some people hear a difference between old and new and others don't). As for your pair sounding "odd", burn-in could certainly account for that--and of course they're not matched, assuming the original pair ever were. But I really think after a few weeks you'll be enjoying the phones as much as ever and wondering what you were worrying about 
 

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

Hmm if my HD600s were bought back in 2009 is it considered the new or old version? And what's the difference ( if any ) between these versions?

2009 would be the new versions. They have light coloured silk as viewed through the grill.
 
Here's a rather bad Ebay picture of a pair I just bought as backup. You can clearly see the light coloured material.