[edhamgtr]

I could pass a blind test between my 600/old and 600/new. easily.
The difference is noticable.
As to which is better ????? Were back to just opinions on that one.

I find it very plausable that they changed a piece of the production line - NOT intending it to improve anything. Just a part change due to availability or costs.
But that change yields a subtle difference in sound - which some prefer and others do not. Keep in mind there is always a bias towards "old" in all things audio.

I honestly gave the new/old thing nary a thought until the NJ meet.
Someone had a set of "new" 580's that definately sounded different than the set of 600's I brought with me.
When I got home I grabbed my other set of 600's (I bought them for my teenage daughter so she would stop taking my set) - and low and behold - the "new" set sounding like the "new 580's at the meet. And certainly a bit different that my "old" set of 600's.

Which is better - feel free to debate.
The fact that there is a difference??? I'll take that test any day.

by the way - my dog prefers the "old" 600's.

 

[Cankin]

How about pictures of drivers? I'm not arguing about the sonic difference, but it's "fun" to know if there are more than one version of drivers

Old HD600 driver:

Notice the brass ring in the center, I've seen pictures of HD600 which doesn't have the brass ring.

New HD650 driver:

 

[donunus]

The eye in the middle is also smaller on the hd650s

 

[Bostonears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactus_farmer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah - do you mind blindfolding yourself somehow so you can be absolutely sure it isn't placebo? I'm gonna be interested in the results as well - I can't believe a different 4 dollar piece of cloth caused by a change in suppliers which Sennheiser themselves have said results in no change in sound quality seems to be causing some people to re-purchase a pair of 400 dollar headphones!!?? If it caused a noticeable improvement, we'd have the HD700 - simple as that. And, though some previous posts have suggested that Sennheiser would have kept the improvement 'secret' so that they'd maintain their credibility (so they wouldn't have to admit to selling 'dud' headphones to the people that bought the 'old' version) - that argument doesn't hold up as the 'old' version HD650's were the ones that got rave reviews from all the audiophile magazines, so they clearly were not 'dud' headphones and people obviously liked them. If the 'new' HD650's were actually worse, THAT would be a good reason not to publicize the changes. As it is I suspect the reason why Sennheiser hasn't made anything of the changes is because they affect the sound quality not one iota.

You're accusing the prior poster of being biased, but your post clearly reveals your own bias, particularly since you haven't even heard the version in question. I do not claim to know one way or the other whether the newer version of the HD650 sounds better, but I would not be surprised at all if it sounds slightly different. And frankly, I agree that it would be silly to repurchase the phones over this change. However:

-The change was not from one piece of cloth to a different piece of cloth. The change was from cloth to a metal material. If a speaker manufacturer changed its tweeters from cloth domes to metal domes, everyone would assume the change would be highly audible. Granted, the HD650 headphone driver itself did not change, but it is not unreasonable to expect that altering the reflective qualities of the materials around the driver would have an audible effect, albeit a subtle one. Stick a few pieces of tin foil around your speakers' tweeters and hear for yourself if it can matter.

-It's quite possible that the new version sounds a little different, but that doesn't mean it sounds better or worse. Sometimes different is just different. Some people might prefer it, others might not.

-This is probably just a classic example of making minor tweaks to a product over years of manufacturing. Consumer electronics companies do it all the time, and end users don't usually know about it. Sometimes the change has a noticeable effect, sometimes not. Sometimes it's because the older part isn't available any more. Sometimes it's to save a few pennies on the bill of materials cost. Sometimes it's because an engineer found a substitute that works a little better at the same cost. Sometimes it's to reduce failure rates or improve longevity. Sometimes it's to make the product easier to build. Etc.

-In the case of the HD650s, the effect of the change might not be sufficiently different or better to warrant the expense and hassles of a new product release. People who have never worked in the consumer electronics industry have no idea how expensive the sales and marketing efforts are to launch a new product on a worldwide scale.

-Of course, Sennheiser has to say that it doesn't sound any different, irrespective of whether or not it does, for precisely the reasons you state. They don't want to have thousands of prior buyers complaining they have inferior product, simply because a slightly different version is now coming off the assembly line.

 

[robm321]

When I owned 2 pairs of HP-2s, they both had a noticeably different sound while still sounding like HP-2s.

There was no difference in any of the material or how they were made... just differences in age of the driver and the minor variations that go along with manufacturing headphones.

Still not conviced but open minded ...

 

[donunus]

Bostonears,
I believe what you say is totally true.

Havent people noticed guys from sennheiser chiming in once in a while when it comes to people wanting to buy stuff but but when it comes to this subject prefer to keep quiet. Some have called sennheiser and say they have been told there is no difference but no sennheiser official sponsor has posted giving a side on this thread. It tells me they are being ambiguous about it and wont take a stand in a public forum because they want people to believe whatever makes them happy.

 

[Bostonears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bostonears, I believe what you say is totally true. Havent people noticed guys from sennheiser chiming in once in a while when it comes to people wanting to buy stuff but but when it comes to this subject prefer to keep quiet. Some have called sennheiser and say they have been told there is no difference but no sennheiser official sponsor has posted giving a side on this thread. It tells me they are being ambiguous about it and wont take a stand in a public forum because they want people to believe whatever makes them happy.

Perhaps the only person who even knows why the change was made is the manufacturing engineer who wrote the change order. That kind of info rarely trickles down to the front lines.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cankin /img/forum/go_quote.gif How about pictures of drivers? I'm not arguing about the sonic difference, but it's "fun" to know if there are more than one version of drivers

You are comparing HD600 driver to HD650, sure they are different. HD650 never had brass ring, only older version of HD600/HD580 did.

 

[cactus_farmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonears /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're accusing the prior poster of being biased, but your post clearly reveals your own bias, particularly since you haven't even heard the version in question.

Unfortunately you can't judge tone very well on an internet forum, even one catered to audiophiles. When I said 'do you mind blindfolding yourself so you're sure it isn't placebo' or something along those lines, it wasn't meant as an accusation, it was meant as a request - simply because I'm interested if people can distinguish the difference between the two 'versions' of the 'phones in a blind test.

And point taken, it is possible that the truly golden-eared can pick up a difference in even minute construction changes but whether it is a significant change in the sound signature easily detected by the majority of people is another matter.

 

[Bostonears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactus_farmer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unfortunately you can't judge tone very well on an internet forum, even one catered to audiophiles. When I said 'do you mind blindfolding yourself so you're sure it isn't placebo' or something along those lines, it wasn't meant as an accusation, it was meant as a request - simply because I'm interested if people can distinguish the difference between the two 'versions' of the 'phones in a blind test. And point taken, it is possible that the truly golden-eared can pick up a difference in even minute construction changes but whether it is a significant change in the sound signature easily detected by the majority of people is another matter.

As my former boss used to say, "We're in violent agreement."

 

[Cankin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are comparing HD600 driver to HD650, sure they are different. HD650 never had brass ring, only older version of HD600/HD580 did.

So the new version of HD600/HD580 doesn't have the brass ring as well?

anybody have pictures of the driver of new HD600?

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cankin /img/forum/go_quote.gif So the new version of HD600/HD580 doesn't have the brass ring as well? anybody have pictures of the driver of new HD600?

They lost the brass ring long ago, way before white baffling.

 

[aloksatoor]

they seem to be the same in fact the new HD 650s a lot darker, was gonna get a silver cable just for tht but the bank says no

 

[cactus_farmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aloksatoor /img/forum/go_quote.gif they seem to be the same in fact the new HD 650s a lot darker, was gonna get a silver cable just for tht but the bank says no

You've heard both 'versions' of the HD650 ('black' lining and 'silver' lining) and you think the 'new' one is darker?

haha, plot thickens, methinks...

 

[Cankin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif They lost the brass ring long ago, way before white baffling.

Mine must be a "vintage HD600", although I bought it new about a month ago only.

So there are 3 version of HD600? 1) Brass ring w/black baffling, 2) No brass ring w/black baffling and 3) No brass ring w/ white baffling? ....