[Meremoth]

I'm just going to assume I won't be able to tell a sound quality difference between whatever combo of Magni Uber, Modi Uber, O2, and ODAC I end up choosing.  Taking into consideration that all the options I've listed here are considered mostly "neutral" and "transparent", and seeing how the TH-0XX's seem to be a more "neutral" sounding pair of headphones than the TH-600 and TH-900, perhaps I should just forget about worrying about this and just focus on the features.  
 
If my assumption is correct, then I should go for the Schiit Uber stack, yeah?  I mean because it has more features than the O2 and ODAC, correct?  
 
Dear Lord, please give me the strength to make this decision today before I lose my sanity.   

 

 

[xb4iris]

Anyone managed to get the Objective2 more musical with some OpAmp rolling. I know that defeats the purpose, but the transparency gets to me sometimes, especially on high emphasized headphones. The neutrality and power are awesome, but the idea of some coloration does give my mind pause sometimes when listening to music I used to enjoy when simply using my Asus Xonar headphone jack. For example my Superlux HD668Bs used to shine on my Xonar and have now become treble rockets! LOL! May be the missing Odac, using the same Xonar as a Dac at the moment.
 
Someone did recommend 2x OPA2132PA and AD823AN OpAmps, but I'm pretty warry about rolling if the negative affects out-way the positives.
 
Any ideas?

 

[Psalmanazar]

  almost everybody here has been telling you odac/o2+hd650 has no problem, some of them knowing enough to build amps by themselves.
I've had one for 2 or 3years now and it's still my source of choice anytime I measure something, that's how reliable this dac/amp combo has been for me.
nwavguy actually used the hd650 as reference many times when posting about the odac/O2. for the O2 we know all about how it's made, we know the max voltage, how we should set the gain settings(if you don't, blame yourself not the amp), and many more things unavailable/unclear on other amps.  despite that, you show your massive expertise of having one problem doing something still unclear(but obviously wrong), to decide you know better than all those guys and blame the O2 for being flawed...

 
 how you go from a problem with an API to blaming an amp makes no sense whatsoever of course. the license point... IDK what to say, 99% of amps have more license locks than an O2. and et's be honest here, if what you want to do is modify an O2 for your own use, who's going to stop you? the licence is to stop people from selling crap under the name odac/O2, that's all.
 
  at one time you talked about asio when the odac has no asio driver(at least the first version), is it what you mean with API and usb controller? then DSPs, if you clip your signal because of a DSP it's100% clipped at the computer level, and 100% your own fault for not lowering the digital gain before that DSP. then you talk about gain problem in the amp... when the amp has 2 gain settings and the gain value can be changed by any noob DIYer to whatever you need. how about you stop shooting randomly trying to put some nonsense blame on this device? if you don't like the odac or the O2, don't use them. no need to lie and make up reasons.

I described perfectly well what I was doing in my last post. The ASIO and WASAPI Event mode protocols cause the ODAC to clip and stutter no matter how large the buffer as its USB chipset (the Tenor TE7022) does not support them, even with generic drivers such as ASIO4ALL. Most ODAC users bought a dongle to bypass their computers' built in Realtek chip and don't care about bypassing the Windows DirectSound mixer to achieve even more neutral and perceptively better sound quality.
 
The O2 also easily clips with my HD 650 and recording-dependent preference for VST plugins. Most good DSPs lower the volume to prevent clipping of the signal or have anticlipping options that you are well advised to check. I have problems getting enough volume without clipping with Sonarworks and various low-pass filters I have set up for listening to poor recordings I like. That users can so easily clip the amp is a design flaw. If the O2 stayed a DIY project that wasn't marketed to consumers as a direct competitor to others' discrete solutions this wouldn't be a flaw. Unfortunately Nwavguy built his "Objective" brand by directly attacking other manufacturers' amplifiers and their design flaws from the beginning and designing his own flawed but "bang for buck" amp that was competitive at the time for new users. Many are still convinced by his marketing, someone asked about power output, and I told my experience.

 

[Psalmanazar]

  I'm just going to assume I won't be able to tell a sound quality difference between whatever combo of Magni Uber, Modi Uber, O2, and ODAC I end up choosing.  Taking into consideration that all the options I've listed here are considered mostly "neutral" and "transparent", and seeing how the TH-0XX's seem to be a more "neutral" sounding pair of headphones than the TH-600 and TH-900, perhaps I should just forget about worrying about this and just focus on the features.  
 
If my assumption is correct, then I should go for the Schiit Uber stack, yeah?  I mean because it has more features than the O2 and ODAC, correct?  
 
Dear Lord, please give me the strength to make this decision today before I lose my sanity.   

 

The Ubers are both mains powered and have ASIO drivers for Windows. Unless you're going to carry it around the house all the time, get the Schiits. The PYSST RCA cables they sell are very convenient too.

  Anyone managed to get the Objective2 more musical with some OpAmp rolling. I know that defeats the purpose, but the transparency gets to me sometimes, especially on high emphasized headphones. The neutrality and power are awesome, but the idea of some coloration does give my mind pause sometimes when listening to music I used to enjoy when simply using my Asus Xonar headphone jack. For example my Superlux HD668Bs used to shine on my Xonar and have now become treble rockets! LOL! May be the missing Odac, using the same Xonar as a Dac at the moment.
 
Someone did recommend 2x OPA2132PA and AD823AN OpAmps, but I'm pretty warry about rolling if the negative affects out-way the positives.
 
Any ideas?

Why not just use an equalizer or get a pair of headphones without treble problems? If you don't like the flaws of your transducer with a certain amp, then just don't use the O2 with the Superlux. My O2 does no favors to my HD 25's treble issues.

 

[Meremoth]

  The Ubers are both mains powered and have ASIO drivers for Windows. Unless you're going to carry it around the house all the time, get the Schiits. The PYSST RCA cables they sell are very convenient too.
 

 
 
I was recommend this:  https://introprose.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/rca-crossconnect-for-schiit-Stack
 
It's the same price as these:  http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables
 
I don't know anything about either.  Would one have any sound quality advantage over the other?  Or any pros and cons between the two products?  
 
Edit:  I'll also need this to connect to my PC, right?
 
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021817&p_id=9767&seq=1&format=2

 

[xb4iris]

  The Ubers are both mains powered and have ASIO drivers for Windows. Unless you're going to carry it around the house all the time, get the Schiits. The PYSST RCA cables they sell are very convenient too.

Why not just use an equalizer or get a pair of headphones without treble problems? If you don't like the flaws of your transducer with a certain amp, then just don't use the O2 with the Superlux. My O2 does no favors to my HD 25's treble issues.

 
Me an equalizers don't click. I become obsessive compulsive. Change it on every track. Trust me, it gets scary! Opamps seem to cure diseases easier, like it did with my Asus Soundcard back in the day. Never used a EQ again, but I get yah!

 

[Psalmanazar]

   
Me an equalizers don't click. I become obsessive compulsive. Change it on every track. Trust me, it gets scary! Opamps seem to cure diseases easier, like it did with my Asus Soundcard back in the day. Never used a EQ again, but I get yah!

I have custom parametric equalizers set up for the L and R channels of certain extremely poor recordings as the high hat is only in one! It's a pain so I probably will pick up a slightly rolled off in the treble amp to use for some of them.

 

[xb4iris]

  I have custom parametric equalizers set up for the L and R channels of certain extremely poor recordings as the high hat is only in one! It's a pain so I probably will pick up a slightly rolled off in the treble amp to use for some of them.

 
I did that with APO once upon a time when I got this amp, but I chop and change headphones, so it gets irritating! Never had to do this with my Xonar! That rolled off the highs very well on its own, obviously at a quality cost, but it was easy. I could live my life without obsession. I even left the house on one or two occasions. LOL!

 

[Meremoth]

I would have the same problem as xb4iris and become obsessive about the EQ.  I would never reach satisfaction because I would know I could always test it a little more, and even if I did reach the most optimal levels for my ears, I'd still would be convinced I could tweek it a little more...  I mean, heck, look at all I'm going through right now just to find some sort of serenity for my ever doubting, ever questioning, ever anxious mind.  At least I got the headphones ordered.    

 

[castleofargh]

Originally Posted by Psalmanazar /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I described perfectly well what I was doing in my last post. The ASIO and WASAPI Event mode protocols cause the ODAC to clip and stutter no matter how large the buffer as its USB chipset (the Tenor TE7022) does not support them, even with generic drivers such as ASIO4ALL. Most ODAC users bought a dongle to bypass their computers' built in Realtek chip and don't care about bypassing the Windows DirectSound mixer to achieve even more neutral and perceptively better sound quality.
 
The O2 also easily clips with my HD 650 and recording-dependent preference for VST plugins. Most good DSPs lower the volume to prevent clipping of the signal or have anticlipping options that you are well advised to check. I have problems getting enough volume without clipping with Sonarworks and various low-pass filters I have set up for listening to poor recordings I like. That users can so easily clip the amp is a design flaw. If the O2 stayed a DIY project that wasn't marketed to consumers as a direct competitor to others' discrete solutions this wouldn't be a flaw. Unfortunately Nwavguy built his "Objective" brand by directly attacking other manufacturers' amplifiers and their design flaws from the beginning and designing his own flawed but "bang for buck" amp that was competitive at the time for new users. Many are still convinced by his marketing, someone asked about power output, and I told my experience.

ok so that I understand.
wasapi event AFAIK is to let the DAC handle the traffic of packets. odac not even being async or anything is unlikely to have any use for this. just use wasapi push (if on latest versions you may  have to disable event as it's now the default setting).
asio4all isn't asio. I've only had very poor experiences with it and would rather use good old kernel streaming as is than asio4all. if you use a DAC that has real asio drivers provided, then by all means go for asio, but I don't advise asio4all, ever.
try wasapi push and see if you still have troubles.
 
 
about clipping,  I really don't get what you're talking about. I can use the odac with the computer output maxed out(windows and foobar) and I don't get clipping. and the extreme situation, the o2 maxed out and gain 2.5X(I have 1X and 2.5) with the hd650, and still get no clipping going as loud on the computer as I can possibly stand. so again, your device has a problem, or you fail to set your computer properly. but it's not an odac/o2 problem as I have it have a hd650 and don't have your problem. yet you keep saying it's the odac/o2 that are flawed...
 
and if you clip something digitally with a DSP then how is it the amp's problem? I'm using some crossfeed and EQ at all time and I never have any trouble as long as I deal with the gain correctly.
all the problems I've come accross were some really unstable VSTs, some problematic chainings where one VST could only work at a given samplerate or stuff like that, or when I try to do stuff that require too much resources for my poor old laptop(like using the best settings possible in equilibrium).
but none of those have anything to do with the DAC and amp used.
 

 

  The Ubers are both mains powered and have ASIO drivers for Windows. Unless you're going to carry it around the house all the time, get the Schiits. The PYSST RCA cables they sell are very convenient too.

Why not just use an equalizer or get a pair of headphones without treble problems? If you don't like the flaws of your transducer with a certain amp, then just don't use the O2 with the Superlux. My O2 does no favors to my HD 25's treble issues.

 
Me an equalizers don't click. I become obsessive compulsive. Change it on every track. Trust me, it gets scary! Opamps seem to cure diseases easier, like it did with my Asus Soundcard back in the day. Never used a EQ again, but I get yah!

can't force you against your will, but what you're really looking for is probably inside a few DSPs and/or a nice EQ. try something like TB isone (free trial). I don't use this because I'm fine with a great EQ and a little crosfeed alone, but this is a kind of all-in-one, that lets you test a lot of ways to alter the sound while never really ruining it. and it's certainly less random than waiting for some component changes to result in the sound you like. you would need to be super patient or super lucky to get your beloved sound that way. not saying it can't happen, but it's the long hard path you're taking.
and if you prefer to put your music in the hand of someone else instead of becoming obsessed with all the settings, you can indeed use something like sonawork or any stuff using measured headphones to simulate a certain sound. the choices are reduced to what they have measured or estimated to sound good. maybe a better option for the obsessive minds and those not too confident they can use an EQ properly? (I'm not trolling, it's actualy very hard to master the use of an EQ, and requires a lot of work at first)

 

[Meremoth]

 
 
can't force you against your will, but what you're really looking for is probably inside a few DSPs and/or a nice EQ. try something like TB isone (free trial). I don't use this because I'm fine with a great EQ and a little crosfeed alone, but this is a kind of all-in-one, that lets you test a lot of ways to alter the sound while never really ruining it. and it's certainly less random than waiting for some component changes to result in the sound you like. you would need to be super patient or super lucky to get your beloved sound that way. not saying it can't happen, but it's the long hard path you're taking.
and if you prefer to put your music in the hand of someone else instead of becoming obsessed with all the settings, you can indeed use something like sonawork or any stuff using measured headphones to simulate a certain sound. the choices are reduced to what they have measured or estimated to sound good. maybe a better option for the obsessive minds and those not too confident they can use an EQ properly? (I'm not trolling, it's actualy very hard to master the use of an EQ, and requires a lot of work at first)

 
 
That's some good information.  I think it's difficult for people with stable/calm minds to empathize with someone that literally takes time every morning to decide which sock is better for his right foot or left foot when he knows they're not right or left specific, lol, yes that's my dumb butt I'm referring to, and even though I find it ridiculous and even laugh at it, I still can't help myself but do it, even though I don't want to.  Yes, I'm fairly insane in the membrane, but the information you provided showed sympathy, and that's all we can ask for.  
 
I didn't want xb4iris to feel all alone with in his EQ anxiety.  

 

 

[xb4iris]

  ok so that I understand.
wasapi event AFAIK is to let the DAC handle the traffic of packets. odac not even being async or anything is unlikely to have any use for this. just use wasapi push (if on latest versions you may  have to disable event as it's now the default setting).
asio4all isn't asio. I've only had very poor experiences with it and would rather use good old kernel streaming as is than asio4all. if you use a DAC that has real asio drivers provided, then by all means go for asio, but I don't advise asio4all, ever.
try wasapi push and see if you still have troubles.
 
 
about clipping,  I really don't get what you're talking about. I can use the odac with the computer output maxed out(windows and foobar) and I don't get clipping. and the extreme situation, the o2 maxed out and gain 2.5X(I have 1X and 2.5) with the hd650, and still get no clipping going as loud on the computer as I can possibly stand. so again, your device has a problem, or you fail to set your computer properly. but it's not an odac/o2 problem as I have it have a hd650 and don't have your problem. yet you keep saying it's the odac/o2 that are flawed...
 
and if you clip something digitally with a DSP then how is it the amp's problem? I'm using some crossfeed and EQ at all time and I never have any trouble as long as I deal with the gain correctly.
all the problems I've come accross were some really unstable VSTs, some problematic chainings where one VST could only work at a given samplerate or stuff like that, or when I try to do stuff that require too much resources for my poor old laptop(like using the best settings possible in equilibrium).
but none of those have anything to do with the DAC and amp used.
 
can't force you against your will, but what you're really looking for is probably inside a few DSPs and/or a nice EQ. try something like TB isone (free trial). I don't use this because I'm fine with a great EQ and a little crosfeed alone, but this is a kind of all-in-one, that lets you test a lot of ways to alter the sound while never really ruining it. and it's certainly less random than waiting for some component changes to result in the sound you like. you would need to be super patient or super lucky to get your beloved sound that way. not saying it can't happen, but it's the long hard path you're taking.
and if you prefer to put your music in the hand of someone else instead of becoming obsessed with all the settings, you can indeed use something like sonawork or any stuff using measured headphones to simulate a certain sound. the choices are reduced to what they have measured or estimated to sound good. maybe a better option for the obsessive minds and those not too confident they can use an EQ properly? (I'm not trolling, it's actualy very hard to master the use of an EQ, and requires a lot of work at first)

 
It's an art! I get yah! Some people can handle it, others can't. It takes a enormous amount of patience, and I liked using it back in the day when WinAmp was a staple and gaming headset were the bees knees in my life. Good headphones made my life complicated. Quality drowns us of ignorance and the safety it provides. I generally swap between three headphones every day for different things, so a profile based EQ system would be great with a fast swap mechanism. Haven't found one like that, but I'm check your recommendations out. You never know if something suits my ideals. All EQ's these days are complicated to use, even a master like you has to remember the days when selecting 'rock' or 'dance' in the EQ was enough. I miss those days sometimes. All I want is some life to return to the music, but it may be my wax acting up!

 

[castleofargh]

  It's an art! I get yah! Some people can handle it, others can't. It takes a enormous amount of patience, and I liked using it back in the day when WinAmp was a staple and gaming headset were the bees knees in my life. Good headphones made my life complicated. Quality drowns us of ignorance and the safety it provides. I generally swap between three headphones every day for different things, so a profile based EQ system would be great with a fast swap mechanism. Haven't found one like that, but I'm check your recommendations out. You never know if something suits my ideals. All EQ's these days are complicated to use, even a master like you has to remember the days when selecting 'rock' or 'dance' in the EQ was enough. I miss those days sometimes. All I want is some life to return to the music, but it may be my wax acting up!

eheh, I wish I was an EQ master. I'm way better than I was last year that's for sure. but won't next year's castleofargh laugh at my actual EQ handling? a likely answer is yes ^_^.
I'm slowly getting better at it but I'm no sound engineer, that much is a certainty.

 
 
sorry for the off topic.
 
 

 

[adydula]

If a recording is not well mastered, Eq'ing isnt going to make it better.....
 
99% of clipping is due to people using a higher than needed gain setting....
 
I have a ODA with clipping LED's set up with comparators and I never clip until I play at absurd gain levels, very high volumes with music that has high reply gain.
 
There is no need to go this high with heaphones. If you are your going to go deaf over time!!!
 
A.

 

[castleofargh]

  If a recording is not well mastered, Eq'ing isnt going to make it better.....
 
99% of clipping is due to people using a higher than needed gain setting....
 
I have a ODA with clipping LED's set up with comparators and I never clip until I play at absurd gain levels, very high volumes with music that has high reply gain.
 
There is no need to go this high with heaphones. If you are your going to go deaf over time!!!
 
A.

you say that like headphones are all flat.