[Jahn]

bah the portaphile site doesn't show an option to get a rechargeable dongle, just a DC jack. you sure this think allowed you to charge it with the batts in the amp still?

 

[jaybar]

My spelling may be wrong, but the egmont powered the Stax and the SR60's.

Jay

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybar My spelling may be wrong, but the egmont powered the Stax and the SR60's. Jay

Thanks for hosting us today Jay.

I've got this crazy headache now. It's annoying me.

It was the HE60 Sennheiser's. I must plug them back into my system. That weird noise we heard through the Egmont was crazy with the HE60. I don't know why it developed that in the middle.

--lan

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn bah the portaphile site doesn't show an option to get a rechargeable dongle, just a DC jack. you sure this think allowed you to charge it with the batts in the amp still?

Nope. The most current Portaphile PV2^2-LT1210 Maxxed does NOT have a charging circuit. It will take a 12-15V max wallwart for AC power. It has a power switch on the front -- what it's missing is an external gain switch. You have to open the case and choose a dip switch setting for lo/hi gain, Class A bias ON/OFF, Hi Bandwidth ON/OFF, front LED ON/OFF. With all ON NIMN 250mAh 9V gets about 4.5 hours. Ultralife 9V gets 20+ hours. iPower Lithium-Polymer 9V rechargeables are unstable and unpredictable, but about 6 hrs. max.

The mini-mini .5m IC from Lan's Rio Nitrus to portables was Zu Pivot. Also Zu Pivot RCAs-to-mini with PPA.

Rudistor Egmont was the "standard" stereo single-ended (as opposed to Egmont Signature Dual Mono, Dual Rail Power Supplies?), RCAs in, Stax Pro and Senn Orpheus straight 6 jacks on front panel.

Lan -- I already forgot which tubes you put into the Egmon to replace the Sovtek ECC83/12AX7 and National Electronic (Russia) 6SN7GTB that we disliked. Your 6SN7s were ____ mfr.?, and was it Electro Harmonix front end triodes? 12AX7? Fill in please. Thanks.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybar My spelling may be wrong, but the egmont powered the Stax and the SR60's. Jay

We've all got Grado on the brain! Egmont > Stax Omega II (SR-007), Stax Lambda (Jahn's when we could wrest them from his grasp), Jay's Stax 404s, Lan's Senn HE60 -- until they started rebelling!

Jay's Tower of Power was of the Ayre/Shunyata persuasion. Once the Egmont & Stax phones were warmed and charged, and we had spent enough time enjoying and experimenting with Jay's Harbeth speakers -- and listening to the Staxen via his Stax amp, the Egmont was connected to the Ayre transport, which provided a solid source for our comparisons.

At the end of the meet Lan and Jay did some interesting experimenting with Ayre's tiny wood blocks, placed different ways under the Ayre transport and Stax amp -- to hear how it might modify the sound. We didn't really have enough time to do this methodically. Perhaps the others could comment on this?

 

[tjkurita]

Is the Stax SR-X the one that Jason bought from Tom? I didn't know it was an electrostatic setup.

Any pics from the meet and gear lists? It sounds like a productive day!

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee At the end of the meet Lan and Jay did some interesting experimenting with Ayre's tiny wood blocks, placed different ways under the Ayre transport and Stax amp -- to hear how it might modify the sound. We didn't really have enough time to do this methodically. Perhaps the others could comment on this?

Ayre just shipped me 6 blocks. As soon as my CDP comes back from a factory update I will be testing these against Mapleshade triplepoints (for the CDP). I'm interested to learn from others experience with these too. At $5 each, even small improvements will make them a good value.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Ayre just shipped me 6 blocks. As soon as my CDP comes back from a factory update I will be testing these against Mapleshade triplepoints (for the CDP). I'm interested to learn from others experience with these too. At $5 each, even small improvements will make them a good value.

The rediculous thing was, it wasn't a subtle change. The sound actually became tangibly more clear. I really normally think that kind of thing is BS, but somehow this actually worked. I can see someone paying a rediculous amount of money for a cable that offered the same improvement.

Ahh, so I was wrong about the Portaphile charging, then? Eh, oh well! That thing still rocked my ears off.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio For this one, we used: A 4th Gen iPod, a 5th gen iPod, Lan's Rio thingy for sources. Two different cables: Both from iPod Lineout... mine was silver tinned copper, Romanee's was silver. Not sure which IC was used for the Rio, I think it was a silver cable, not sure the brand. Headphones: GS1000, Beyerdynamic DT880 (newer model), K701. Interestingly, I think Jason liked the K701 combined with the Hornet.

I can't imagine that results were consistent across the board. How did you control the variables? What systems worked, and what one's didn't?

 

[jjcha]

This was an interesting meet for me. Having recently acquired, and becoming a big fan of, the Stax SR-X Mk-3, I was curious to revisit Jahn's Lambda Pro, as well as compare these against the current Stax offerings, namely Jaybar's SR-404 and the Omega II that Romanee is borrowing from MacHead and see how they stood up against lan's Sennheiser HE60.

To some degree, I was very happy keeping a non-mega electrostat meet. The HE90 will have its turn once my amp is done and when, hopefully, I've managed to find an Omega I. The amps we had was a good modest collection - Jahn's SRM-1 Mk2, Jaybar's SRM-717 and MacHead's Rudi Egmont.

I brought my SRD-6SB to use with my upgraded/modded T-Amp, but foolishly forgot the powercable to the regulated power supply, so this had to sit it out. Also, the HE60 was having issues with the Egmont (or the Egmont was having issues with the HE60) so that had to sit it out as well. That was fine, we had plenty to play with.

The Rudi Egmont

So no mega-electrostats (though the OII in the right amp, IMHO, deserves mega status), no mega-amps, just a bunch of normal electrostats that most people could reach for.

Of course we had a nice little complement of dynamic headphones and portable amps (Romanee is like the Pied Piper of portable amps...) which made for a nice contrast to the electrostat madness.

Jaybar was a very generous host and provided the perfect venue. Jay is a fan of Ayre components and we had as source his well-regarded Ayre CX-7 CDP, which spent the first half feeding the SRM-717 and the latter the Rudi Egmont.

We started the meet with the following rigs set up:

1. jjcha's portable Sony DVD player as transport > Jahn's lan modded DAC-AH > Jahn's SRM-1 Mk2 > Jahn's Lambda Pro & jjcha's SR-X Mk-3

2. Jaybar's Ayre CX-7 indirectly feeding > Jaybar's SRM-717 > Jaybar's SR-404

3. Romanee's iPod > MacHead's Egmont > MacHead's Omega II

We had hoped to have the HE60 in rig #3, but it was producing weird noises, so it had to sit it out. But we quickly swapped the Omega II into Jaybar's full rig to compare against his SR-404.

Out of these rigs, I personally spent my start comparing the SR-X and Lambda Pro. There's no question these are quite different Stax. As expected (at least for me) the SR-X had no soundstage, while the Lambdas reached for the spaciousness that is possible with headphones. So in this regard, there is no comparison, the SR-X is flat and the Lambdas spacious.

But tonally and texturally, I wanted to compare the Lambda Pro to the SR-X, to see if that spaciousness came at an expense, and in my opinion it did. Jahn found the SR-X to sound off/congested, beyond that of having a flat soundstage. But I thought the Lambda Pro was etched in its treble, in a way the SR-X didn't suffer from. Also, I found the Lambda Pro to be somewhat lacking in the weight and body of the instruments that the SR-X excelled at.

There's no doubt I am coming from the perspective of someone who likes what the SR-X has to offer, and is listening critically if another can can offer that and more. And in this regard, the Lambda Pros came up short. They are different, strong in different areas. Honestly, I suppose one should buy both. But I'm wondering if the Omega I may quench my need for a Lambda Pro. Either way, I'm still searching for both.

I honestly thought the SR-X sounded the most complete out of all the electrostats we heard today, in that it achieved what it set out to achieve, and did not attempt to do things that it would fail at. IMHO I can't say the same about any of the other electrostats. I also felt that the SRM-1 Mk2 did a decent job of driving both headphones, but I wonder how much better they would have sounded with a better amp/transformer + power amp. To a large degree I find my ghetto T-Amp & SRD-6SB more interesting than the SRM-1 Mk2.

(to be continued)

Best,

-Jason

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg I can't imagine that results were consistent across the board. How did you control the variables? What systems worked, and what one's didn't?

Jason says that there is synergy between the K701 and the Hornet, I didn't listen to that particular combo.

On both the GS1000 and the DT880, the Hornet just didn't pull its weight. It felt like something actually intentionally muddying the signal between the headphone and either iPod... though I can see that particular coloration being interpereted as pleasurable for a MUCH more relaxed listening. It just wasn't clear and crisp in any way, not like the Portaphile was.

But, I don't think we performed the whole thing under the most scientific of circumstances. It was mostly going back and fourth with the same few songs, plugging in the headphones on the table and switching iPods. For the most part, we listened to the two out of Romanee's 4g iPod with the silver IC.

So, I guess my impressions could fall under the "bunk" category for now... my interest in the Hornet has certainly grown, and I'd like to try it out against other amps. I think Romanee compared it to my Total Bithead. I'd be interested to see him post on the whole portable amp thing, he's spent a lot more time with the Hornet and Portaphile.

 

[jjcha]

Listening to Jaybar's rig (Ayre CDP > SRM-717) with his SR-404 and MacHead's Omega 2, I once again appreciate people's ambivalence between the SR-404 and the Omega 2. Quite simply, the Omega 2 has more bass but is laid back in treble, but the SR-404 has a tendency to be bright. I do think Jaybar has put together a fine rig around the SR-404. It's not as bright/uncontrolled as I know the SR-404 can be. I put a lot of it with his Ayre CDP, which I am guessing isn't an overly bright/unrefined treble source, but a lot has to do with his interconnects, power cables, etc., especially interconnects.

On many tracks the SR-404 sounded great, but on a few tracks the treble was just too much and too splashy. Honestly, I'm accustomed to a bright/splashy sound, so I could live with Jaybar's rig as is, but I understand how someone would want something to keep that in control.

But here I am making a criticism of a rig that, for the most part, had so many strengths. I heard the texture that comes from the speed and resolution I enjoy so much from electrostatics. And there was a pretty decent soundstage to it - not the best I've heard (that goes to the ES-1 driving the Omega II's at bozebuttons' or other 010/K 1000/R10 rigs) but still pleasant enough. Jaybar's got a fine rig, and I could be happy with it despite its ocassional lack of control in treble. It sounds great with my JPop.

But comparing the Omega II's in Jaybar's rig, it reminds me of why I was never that impressed with them. I auditioned the Omega II more than a few times in Japan - always out of the SRM-717 or the SRM-007t. Neither of these amps have what it takes to make the Omega II.

I feel bad for the other participants in this mini-meet. I think it was agreed by all the Omega II was disappointing today for such a flagship headphone. But the difference is that I have heard the Omega II sound fantastic before, and that it could achieve so much. Unfortunately it's not out of the Stax amps. I guess I hope everyone keeps an open mind and tries the O2 with the ES-1 one of these days. It is as good a system as any other I have heard.

Skipping ahead a bit, we did put the Egmont in the place of the SRM-717 in Jaybar's rig and it did a nice step improvemnt with the O2. But not enough to make it really shine.

The issues with the O2 with these rigs are this - the soundstaging is just average, it is laid back, and shockingly, the bass is not only prominent, but it's also fairly uncontrolled. To my ears, Stax in designing the O2 was making a headphone that would have the bass of a dynamic headphone, most interestingly, like the ATH-L3000. I guess they succeeded, but they seem to have lost somewhere how to maximize the strengths of their electrostat approach. The midrange is still strong and has the speed/texture that only an electrostat can give, and thus gives the presence of reality that I've come to love from my SR-X. But it's just lost in the lack of treble, excessive bass, and unimpressive soundstaging. Still, as the system warmed up, I felt the treble was somewhat laid-back but still good enough (kind of like the HD650 with good rigs) and the O2 did fine with my JPop (which likes lots of bass and isn't too demanding). But it didn't shine and justify a $2k+ pricetag.

Not the best pict but:

Jaybar with Omega II

(to be continued)

Best,

-Jason

 

[jjcha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio So, I guess my impressions could fall under the "bunk" category for now... my interest in the Hornet has certainly grown, and I'd like to try it out against other amps. I think Romanee compared it to my Total Bithead. I'd be interested to see him post on the whole portable amp thing, he's spent a lot more time with the Hornet and Portaphile.

You're too kind. I did like the Overture (lan modded) > Hornet > K 701. But honestly, that's because the K 701 is such a boring headphone (designed by committee, I say) it needs colouration and flaws to make it interesting. With the Grado GS-1000, the Hornet was absolute crap. Seriously, switching between it and the Portaphile, it was stunning how instruments that sounded real and authentic with the Portaphile sounded plastic and fake with the Hornet.

I've heard the Hornet now 4 times. First time was with the prototype, where I thought it was plain broken with my Sensaphonics 2X-S. Second time was at the NY meet 2005, where I thought it was, again, broken. The treble was just tissy and all over the place. The third time was with Romanee's well burned-in one at the National Meet day 2, where I was surprised that it sounded great, and compared very well with the Portaphile out of the headphones we had then (I forget which they were, Peter, do you remember?) On that day I figured I needed to reconsider my thoughts on the Hornet.

Today, it was absolute garbage when we tried it with the GS-1000. It was better with the K 701 (I understand why lan said he liked the K 701 with the Overture and Portaphile - the Portaphile was more technically accomplished than the Hornet, but it only added to the K 701 boredom in my mind) and I liked that combo quite a bit.

I dunno man, I think people who know me know that I'm happy to say that something is crap when it sounds like crap to me (as well as eat my words when proven wrong later). The bottom line is that 3 out of 5 times (I count today as two times) the Hornet has sounded like crap to me. Broken flawed garbage.

Thank god I have a SR-71, which is a far better amp (though only shines with certain headphones.)

Best,

-Jason

 

[jjcha]

Egmont versus SRM-717

It was interesting listening to Jaybar's rig with the O2 (I am largely more interested in this than the SR-404, I think it's because I've heard the O2 sound so amazing out of the prototype ES-1) and the different amps. The 717 just seems to lack any ability to really drive these phones. I remember the first time I heard the O2, I wondered why anyone would rather have that and the 007t over an ATH-L3000 + iPod. But I suppose that wasn't fair.

Today, as stated before, I heard the texture, resolution and speed that makes electrostats special from both the 717 and Egmont with the O2. But the Egmont was a fuller/thicker sound, though still very detailed, which is why I would say it drove the O2 with more authority than the 717. The bass sounded less loosey-goosey, though it wasn't nearly as tight as I would have hoped. Soundstaging was adequate with both, the Egmont may or may not have been better. Either way they were just okay.

Still, totally off topic, here's something I'm wondering:

Out of all the amps/rigs I heard today, the O2, SR-404, Lambda Pro, each gave a far more spacious soundstage than the SR-X, but none gave me a texturally realistic sound that the SR-X gives me. Is this a sacrifice that needs to be made? That to widen and space the sound, it needs to lose some of the body that has the texture/presence that is otherwise possible through the SR-X? Reading Lloyd's comments in his long meandering thread, as well as my experiences today, makes me wonder if this is so.

Either way, the conclusion is the same as always. You have to own them all.

Okay, I'm sure I'll have more to say later but this is it for now. Just gonna post some picts for now.

Best,

-Jason

Portaphile/Hornet comparisons

My new portable Sony DVD player as transport with the lan modded Overture and Mercuttio's PPA. Nice little rig, esp with the GS-1000.

Jahn looking over the dynamic headphones in the 2ndary listening room (Jaybar's computer room/home office)

lan with the Byers and the updated Total Bithead (which I think is pretty good for what it is) and iPod

lan and Jaybar

Jahn with the Darth Grado and the modest, yet enjoyable, dynamic rig

lan with Mercuttio to the right

Jaybar and Mercuttio playing with those magic wooden blocks. Yes, I did hear a difference! No, I don't understand why!

Romanee chatting with Mercuttio... at least that's what he thinks. That GS-1000 is too good not to listen to while they're on your head.

Jahn trying to convert Mercuttio to the Darth Grado. Don't do it Mercuttio! There is GS-100 -- er, good in you yet!!

It's over. I sense a disturbance in the Force....

Best,

-Jason

 

[jjcha]

Okay, just a quick little line -

I definitely understand where James and I came out regarding the SR-X and Lambda Pro. James would prefer having the Lambda Pro and his Darth Grado - that when he wants a more neutral/accurate headphone, he would rather go to this modded HP1000. I definitely appreciate this, and having the Lambda Pro and HP10000 (modded or otherwise) is a good combo.

I prefer the SR-X and my various other cans (most notably the K 1000 and Q010) as I find the SR-X has the texture/impact I want. I honestly don't know where my HP1 or HP2 fit in my collection right now. When I want a "neutral" or authentic rig, for the time being (and I'm in the new toy honeymoon) I'm going to my SR-X over my HP1000.

We'll see where I end up, but there certainly is overlap.

Best,

-Jason