[ph4tandy]

Hai everyone

 
So I recently got hooked onto Hi-def audio and am looking to upgrade my gear.
So far I have a pair of Bose QC2's (I know Bose is bashed a lot around here, so don't get me wrong I got these for free)
 
I have around 200-300 USD to spend on this upgrade. Now my question is would I be better off spending that on a good amp? I hear lots of responses on the forums that a solid amp is a very good investment. If you think an amp is a better choice to pair with my QC2's can you guys recommend me one within my budget?
 
Otherwise, that money would be able to go into a set of nice headphones. I've done a lot of researching and I'm liking the Denon AH-D2000's a lot. I'm also open to other suggestions too, as I probably don't know nearly as enough to make a decision yet. I mainly listen to rock(alternative, punk, nothing too heavy), trance, orchestral. I do like my bass, but not to the point where it's overpowering. I like the high's in my UE700's, nice and crisp and not shrilling. As for open/closed it doesn't really matter as long as sound quality is excellent and build quality is good enough so that it won't die on me anytime soon.
 
Thanks, all help is appreciated!

 

[DarkAura126]

I just joined here recently as well.  Welcome, fellow newbie.  The Denon D2000's were what I was looking into getting, but alas I have not enough money.  Therefore I'm going with a pair of Audio-Technica's ATH-M50s. 
 
From what I've read about the D2000s is that the mids are somewhat lacking.  If you research them on this website(just use the top search bar and put in D2000) you should be able to find reviews and comparisons for the D2000s.
 
Hope this was of some help.
 
Edit:  Also, apparently an amp levels out the D2000s a little bit, if you do go that route.  Now, I've never had a pair of Bose headphones, so I wouldn't be able to speculate on whether or not they'd sound better with an amp.  Sorry mate.

 

[maverickronin]

Your QC2s already have an amp built in so pairing an amp with them probably won't do much.  Most any decent headphones that don't already have an amp (for noise canceling or whatever) will benefit at least a bit from an amp.  You don't have to spend a whole lot though.  A cmoy should be good enough for most headphones.
 
What kind of sound signature are you looking for?  Do you like the general sound of your QC2s or do you want something radically different, with less bass and more treble for example.

 

[fatcat28037]

^ I believe maverickronin is confusing the white noise generator with an audio amplifier. Bose headphones don't have amplifiers.

 

[maverickronin]

Its not necessarily a good amp, but it is an amp.  Unless the bose works differently from most other NC 'phones on the market, it doesn't just 'overlay' the cancelation waveform on top of the signal.  I don't even know if that's possible.  Its got a phase inverter that takes the mic input and feeds that along with the signal to a little opamp which powers the drivers.  I don't know what you'd call that other than an amp.
 
If it just overlays the signal somehow then let me know.
 
EDIT:  Oh yeah I forgot, assuming it still plays with the NC turned off, you will probably benefit from an amp because it should just let the signal pass through unmolested.  I didn't forgot it because there's usually not much point to using NC phones with the NC off, unless you've got a really quite house or something.

 

[xthakila]

If you are into bass and really want that hefty boom the Denons are a good choice. I have never heard the D2000's but basing my thoughts off the D7000 and the reviews on the forum. They should be a good choice for your needs.
 
If you want a pair of headphones that has relatively clear mids and highs go for the Sennheiser HD595's. The bass is a bit thin though. I say relatively in comparison to the D7000. They are a great entry level headphone. A great place to begin your high end headphone journey.
 
Another advantage the 595's have is that they are not very heavy, are easy to drive and partially portable. When I say partially portable I mean you can carry them around but sometimes they just get too big around your neck, like all full sized cans.
 
For an entry level amp I would say look into the Bravo V2's. I had one a while back. It is a nice little amp for the price. It worked well with my 595's. I don't remember exactly how it made my 595's sound but from what I can remember it made the highs much more relaxed and not as piercing to the ears. If I am not wrong it also made the mids warmer. That is pretty much all I remember but it was a really nice little amp for the price. Really opened the 595's up. Improved the bass and the sound-stage significantly.
 
They now have the V3 but I have never had a chance to hear it. Hopefully soon...

 

[ph4tandy]

Great thanks for the input guys. 
 
@DarkAura126: The ATH-M50's are a lot cheaper than the D2000's. I'll keep that in mind.
 
@maverickronin: The QC2's do sound okay, but I'm looking for more audio presence. It seems as if the noise cancelling takes away from what could be better audio quality. They sound pretty flat to me, with practically no definition :/ And they don't run without the NC on period. I do enjoy the NC feature, but the only thing I plan on drowning out is probably my computer, which any headphone could do easily.
 
@xthakila: Thanks for the input, the bravo v2/v3 do sound tempting because it's pretty inexpensive. Do you know how it compared to the LD MKIII? I was originally looking to pick that up, but if this thing provides more bang for the buck I'm all for it.
 
I'm starting to get sick of my QC2's because I literally have to swap out the battery every night. Very inconvenient, especially from Bose. So for if anyone can either recommend me a low ohm headphone set that would run beautifully out of my X-Fi sound card or a good amp/headphone combo that'd be very helpful. I'll probably stretch the budget for the amp/headphone combo to about 500 if need be, but around 200 for cans alone. Thanks again all whee

 

[maverickronin]

The MKIII wouldn't be a good choice for either the D2000s or M50s.  Its an output transformer-less or OTL amp.  For various electrical reasons those types of amps work better with high impedance headphones.  Usually at least 100 ohms.  IIRC the D2000 is 25 ohms and the M50 is 38 ohms.  The Bravo/Indeed/Muse/etc clone amps on ebay would be a better choice.  Those are tube-transistor hybrids which work better than OTL amps with low impedance headphones, though a very good one will work fine with high impedance 'phones as well.  There are also transformer coupled tube amps which can drive high or low impedance 'phones but good transformers are very expensive so the amps that use them are very, very expensive.
 
Since this is going to be your primary amp, I'd recommend going with something a bit better than the Bravo/Indeed/Muse/etc clones unless you'd be interested in modding the crap out of it.  The LD I+ is a hybrid amp worth looking into, as well as the Millett Starving Student Hybrid.  I've heard the MSSH and liked it, but I've not heard the I+.  I have heard people say good things about it in combination with the D2000s though.
 
As for headphones, it seems like you're looking for something more upfront and forward.  Maybe a Beyerdynamic DT990 or even a Grado.  It can be a little hard to pick out what kind of sound signature you're looking for if you're not used to thinking about stuff that way.  Do you think the QC2s have too much bass or too little bass?  What about the treble?  Assuming the QC2s are something like the =1753&graphID[1]=1743&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones]QC3s and QC15s we can work out what you're looking for.

 

[xthakila]

So if this is meant to be a long term investment in audio gear go for the EF-5's from what skylab says it is a nice amp at around $400 and it is able to drive just about any *low impedance headphone.
 
Don't get me wrong the Bravo is an amazing amp for its size but its just an amp of convenience not something spectacular. I really suggested it because you said your budget was $300 for both an amp and a headphone.
 
I agree with Ronin. Maybe a DT990 might be more your style but keep in mind they are hard to drive... well I have the 600 ohm version. I love the bass on those things... The bass does get overpowering at times but the highs in my opinion are amazing though at times they are so good that they might hurt your ears...haha... the mids are slightly recessed but a good amp can help overcome this problem to a certain extent.
 
Make sure you have a good DAC as well eventually. It make a huge difference to the SQ. It did for me. A good DAC you might consider is the yulong D100...
 
But in my opinion the AH-D7000 is still the best dynamic headphone out there period...

 

[ph4tandy]

@maverickronin: Thanks for the clarification. The QC's are pretty flat, they lack bass and high's don't seem as defined. I haven't tried any of the other QC series either so I can't say. The DT990's look really nice and comfy, I wouldn't mind picking those up at all. As for Grado, I'm not too big of a fan of on-ear; I prefer over-ear.
 
Now the only thing is that they offer them in 250 and 600 ohm versions, which would mean that I'd have to pick up a non-OTL amp correct? Something like the MKIII? Or if there are other amps that are proven performers with these headphones could you point me in the right direction?
 
I'll do some more reading about the DT990's I think they've taken over my want for the D2000's now haha.

 

[maverickronin]

For info on the Beyers, read this.  People generally seem to prefer the 600 ohm versions over the others.  For any of those Beyers except the 32 ohm versions, an OTL amp such as the the MKIII would be a good choice.  I haven't heard it myself but it is well reviewed.  For a little more money the Schiit Valhalla might be worth looking into.  If you can solder the Bottlehead Crack might be worthwhile as well.  I have one, but I can't tell you how it sounds yet because I haven't finished it.  Also in that general price range is the Phenix G3, sold on ebay, though I don't know much about it.
 
All of those are OTL amps, suitable for high impedance 'phones like most of the Beyers.  If you swing back to the D2000s or another low impedance 'phone, go for one of the hybrids mentioned in my previous post, or maybe a used HiFiMAN EF-5 (also a hybrid) as was mentioned above.

 

[ph4tandy]

Thanks for the recommendations and that link, it's really comprehensive. The Schiit Valhalla is fairly new I'm assuming? There aren't that many reviews, but judging by responses from the forum it already has a solid reputation? It's visually appealing too, more so than the MKIII. Too bad it's going a little out of my budget. We'll see how far I'm able to stretch my budget.
 
After reading a bit about low impedance headphones I'm leaning towards the higher ones. Seems like in general the higher ohm versions offer way more sound quality than their lower ohm counterparts. Since I'm planning on buying an amp anyway and this set up will probably be a long term investment, it should all be worthwhile.
 
Also, as a side note, I'm kind of confused about the purpose of a DAC. I'm going to be going computer > amp > headphones, so where does the DAC fit in and what does it do exactly?

 

[xthakila]

So if you use a DAC your setup would be PC>DAC>AMP>CANS
 
To answer your question on what is a dac http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/201322/what-is-a-dac
 

 
Quote:

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Here's my understanding of the subject (whatever that's worth!)

Volume requires voltage but 'drive' requires power.

For equal power, large impedances require more voltage than low impedances. Consequently, low impedances require more current.

Higher impedance headphones require greater signal voltage amplification, which helps to reduce fixed-voltage noise. Generally speaking, noisy sources are less of a problem with high impedance headphones.

Therefore, ideally, go with high impedance.

However, most portable (/battery powered) sources are low voltage. They may not therefore be able to drive high impedance phones with enough volume.

There are two ways to increase the volume. Firstly, decrease the impedance. Secondly, increase the sensitivity. You tend to find that both are done. So, now you have enough voltage for the volume but you probably don't have enough current for the 'drive power'. I'm guessing the sensitivity increase is in a bid reduce the current requirement.

It's usually easier to provide enough voltage than enough current.

I'm also guessing that high impedance deliberately don't have their sensitivity increased as this would throw away the signal to noise benefit.

HTH

 

 

[ph4tandy]

Oh sweet, thanks for the quick response. So basically I'd want to run a digi-op out of my computer to the DAC instead of using the typical analog cables correct? Not sure if my sound card is considered "great" so I'm not sure if I'd have to settle with a USB DAC.
 
Also, I never realized to ask, but what's the difference between the voltages offered by the amps? I see for the Valhalla they offer both 115v & 230v. Are there are differences between the two?

 

[maverickronin]

1.  Yes, the Valhalla is fairly new, as is Schiit.  I haven't got to hear one yet, but lots of people seem to like them at the moment.  They're pretty FOTM, but the 15 day trial makes it a worthwhile recommendation.
 
2.  Impedance isn't really related to overall SQ.  There are tradeoffs in every direction and the higher impedance = better really only applies to Beyer because of the way they make their drivers, and some people dispute that.
 
3.  Your X-Fi is probably a decent enough DAC.  If you don't hear any static or noise on the line out of you X-Fi then you probably don't need to upgrade.  External DAC are farther away from the noise storm of your motherboard and will pick up less noise from it and can be shielded in their own box.  In practice though, most decent add-on sound cards don't have much a noise problem.  Onboard sound usually sucks though.  It can also be useful to use an external DAC with lots of input and outputs, but that depends on the rest of your setup.