NITSCH x Schiit Magni Piety - Impressions Thread
Dec 9, 2022 at 10:05 PM Post #616 of 1,648
What is a good DAC to go with the piety? I impulsively picked it up as my first amp and just have it plugged directly into my computer right now.

What headphones are you using? no point spending a lot on a dac even you don't have highly resolving headphones, even then people still struggle to hear differences (me included). Modi 3E/+ is perfectly adequate and doesn't cost much.
 
Dec 9, 2022 at 10:47 PM Post #617 of 1,648
It is maybe a derailed argument for me to bring in dacs comparison . But as an owner of modi 1 to modi multibit v2 to modi 3 I can say if one wants a detailed, refined sound please stay away from low end Schiit’s dacs. They all are tuned bad with wall-of-sound effect and lacking low level subtlety. I actually cannot understand why low end dacs and amps from Schiit being so popular after trying other audio brands products . Just get an Ifi zen dac signature or jump on to used Schiit hi-end dacs for a much better sound.
 
Dec 9, 2022 at 10:58 PM Post #618 of 1,648
It is maybe a derailed argument for me to bring in dacs comparison . But as an owner of modi 1 to modi multibit v2 to modi 3 I can say if one wants a detailed, refined sound please stay away from low end Schiit’s dacs. They all are tuned bad with wall-of-sound effect and lacking low level subtlety. I actually cannot understand why low end dacs and amps from Schiit being so popular after trying other audio brands products . Just get an Ifi zen dac signature or jump on to used Schiit hi-end dacs for a much better sound.

Because when people are honest with themselves the differences with DA converters are very small or not audible, I have done tests for years trying to find something better but I struggle. I would love to spend big money on an upgrade if it's actually there but im not gonna lie to myself. Most recently a did a lot of testing with a Modi and a Qutest and count tell them apart blind or sighted. I have not tried an R2R yet so I can't comment on that.

Obviously there are people with extremely resolving headphones or a very good ear that can pick them apart but most of us can't.
 
Dec 9, 2022 at 11:59 PM Post #619 of 1,648
It is maybe a derailed argument for me to bring in dacs comparison . But as an owner of modi 1 to modi multibit v2 to modi 3 I can say if one wants a detailed, refined sound please stay away from low end Schiit’s dacs. They all are tuned bad with wall-of-sound effect and lacking low level subtlety. I actually cannot understand why low end dacs and amps from Schiit being so popular after trying other audio brands products . Just get an Ifi zen dac signature or jump on to used Schiit hi-end dacs for a much better sound.
What would be the lowest Schiit high-end? Bifrost 2/64?
 
Dec 10, 2022 at 12:06 AM Post #620 of 1,648
Because when people are honest with themselves the differences with DA converters are very small or not audible, I have done tests for years trying to find something better but I struggle. I would love to spend big money on an upgrade if it's actually there but im not gonna lie to myself. Most recently a did a lot of testing with a Modi and a Qutest and count tell them apart blind or sighted. I have not tried an R2R yet so I can't comment on that.

Obviously there are people with extremely resolving headphones or a very good ear that can pick them apart but most of us can't.
With a NOS R2R DAC, you don’t go back…🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Dec 10, 2022 at 12:35 AM Post #621 of 1,648
I'm still learning every day. Truth be told, I ordered a Geshelli Labs J2 delta sigma DAC with the AK4493 chip for my 2 channel system the other day b/c I'm curious what all the fuss is about with this DAC. Backordered r/n so time will tell.....
Youtube Cheapaudioman loves his. Paired J2 akm w/ piety for his review
 
Dec 10, 2022 at 12:46 AM Post #622 of 1,648
Because when people are honest with themselves the differences with DA converters are very small or not audible, I have done tests for years trying to find something better but I struggle. I would love to spend big money on an upgrade if it's actually there but im not gonna lie to myself. Most recently a did a lot of testing with a Modi and a Qutest and count tell them apart blind or sighted. I have not tried an R2R yet so I can't comment on that.

Obviously there are people with extremely resolving headphones or a very good ear that can pick them apart but most of us can't.
I may respectfully disagree. Dacs are quite different to my ears even with an entry level amps. After being familiar to a dac it is always a revelation for me to change to a new one . Sure I am not saying it is easy thing or I have listened to many dacs . I just want to share my little experience.
 
Dec 10, 2022 at 6:32 AM Post #624 of 1,648
Thanks for all the helpful responses, it has been interesting but also very confusing reading about DACs in general having no context for them. I am not really sure at all of what to get so I might just wait for something interesting to show up used for cheap.
What headphones are you using? no point spending a lot on a dac even you don't have highly resolving headphones, even then people still struggle to hear differences (me included). Modi 3E/+ is perfectly adequate and doesn't cost much.
I mostly use the SR325, audioquest nighthawk and faaeal rosemary.
How much would you want to spend on a DAC budget wise?
Really have no idea how much it is worth spending just to use with this amp.
 
Dec 10, 2022 at 6:59 AM Post #625 of 1,648
Thanks for all the helpful responses, it has been interesting but also very confusing reading about DACs in general having no context for them. I am not really sure at all of what to get so I might just wait for something interesting to show up used for cheap.
I'd say that's the right call. It's clear that people hear things differently, and that is the only thing that is clear.

What 2 different people mentioned about R2R / True multibit so far in this discussion, about space and acoustic sounds, many more have mentioned elsewhere. I haven't tried myself yet but I'm pretty good at literature review. If there is anything special about the way that technology sounds I think it has to be along those lines, because that is the only common thread I've seen. Some people hear it and some people don't, and that may have a lot to do with experience listening to live acoustic music.
 
Dec 10, 2022 at 7:51 AM Post #626 of 1,648
Thanks for all the helpful responses, it has been interesting but also very confusing reading about DACs in general having no context for them. I am not really sure at all of what to get so I might just wait for something interesting to show up used for cheap.

I mostly use the SR325, audioquest nighthawk and faaeal rosemary.

Really have no idea how much it is worth spending just to use with this amp.

Unfortunately that is the way most of this hobby works.

Forums will essentially just confuse you since, just as happened here, you will get opinions and observations that literally extend from one end of the spectrum to the other and everyone giving their feedback is absolutely convinced they are right because that is their reality, me included.

You really need to try things for yourself and see what works for you.

I am firmly in the camp that believes far too much is made about the impact of the DAC. Others, as you have seen, believe they are hugely important. We are all 100% correct in our own mind because our comments are based on our own reality and I guess, like me, people struggle to understand how some others have such polar opposite experiences to them.

In this conversation it is DACs but we could just as easily be talking about cables or amplifiers or power supplies or just about any part of the gear that connects us to the music.

You have read several versions of people’s reality on this matter, regardless of how much you read you are never going to know your reality unless you try for yourself and understand your own position in respect of your budget, preferences and willingness to invest to get an improvement that to you is a worthwhile return.

I would just urge you to consider that this hobby is one of massively diminishing returns. You don’t actually need to spend a great deal of money to get a very good sound and that regardless of all the discussion about the merits of this amp or that, various types of DACs and various specific DACs etc etc it is the headphones that have the biggest impact on what you hear.

I have messed with this stuff very keenly for the last couple of years and, based on reading reviews and forums, have bought into the notion that amps, DACs etc are hugely important to enjoying the experience of listening to your preferred music through good headphones.

I have spent, some would say wasted, a bunch of money chasing something with gear that I feel I have overstated the merits of based on how people talk about the benefits of amps, DACs etc.

If I had a crystal ball I would certainly do it differently but I have enjoyed learning something about this hobby and I guess that is like most hobbies, you have to experience things for yourself to understand where you place within the hobby lies.

Where my experiences have lead me are to a position where I am downsizing my gear, selling off several amps, DACs etc, keeping a few simple but decent items and putting the money into a few nice IEMs to complement my small headphone collection and that can be run off the gear I already have.

There are people involved in this hobby from all levels of the financial spectrum and some are willing to spend seemingly whatever it takes to get a small improvement. I have seen pictures of a rack of amps and DACs purely for headphone listening where the collection of gear is worth something like $150,000 and goodness knows what other money is tied up in gear that isn’t shown. These are some of the people that share opinions about what different equipment does and what benefits you will get from investing more in that equipment.

Assess for yourself what your financial situation is and what you feel you want out of this hobby and figure out a way forward that is most likely to get you to where you want to be without wasting a pile of money to get there.
 
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Dec 10, 2022 at 8:28 AM Post #627 of 1,648
I thought you gave good feedback about DAC recommendations on the previous page. The difference isn't monumental enough to delay the experience of even an inexpensive DAC (say, because of affordability or availability).

Subtle nuances can be moving, though. I did buy a Multibit. Compared to my Drop Grace SDAC, the texture of music is more apparent. The pluck sound of a string, not just the tone. The vibration of a saxophone reed. It's always been there, I've been hearing it, but suddenly I'm now experiencing it more.

Small differences are insignificant. Subtle differences are dramatic.
I agree with you 100%. The new Modi multibit 2 is supposed to have NOS capability too which in my opinion just adds to the performance of a multibit DAC.
 
Dec 10, 2022 at 8:31 AM Post #628 of 1,648
I'd say that's the right call. It's clear that people hear things differently, and that is the only thing that is clear.

What 2 different people mentioned about R2R / True multibit so far in this discussion, about space and acoustic sounds, many more have mentioned elsewhere. I haven't tried myself yet but I'm pretty good at literature review. If there is anything special about the way that technology sounds I think it has to be along those lines, because that is the only common thread I've seen. Some people hear it and some people don't, and that may have a lot to do with experience listening to live acoustic music.
It might also be the synergy of the DAC with a stereo system's other components.
 
Dec 10, 2022 at 10:00 AM Post #629 of 1,648
Thanks for all the helpful responses, it has been interesting but also very confusing reading about DACs in general having no context for them. I am not really sure at all of what to get so I might just wait for something interesting to show up used for cheap.

I mostly use the SR325, audioquest nighthawk and faaeal rosemary.

Really have no idea how much it is worth spending just to use with this amp.

Here’s another consideration. Your headphones look like they’re easy to drive.

I have some Grados and other efficient headphones. They don’t need an amp. I’ll just use a dongle DAC and I’m happy. An amp is too powerful. You need the ability to fine tune listening levels.

Other headphones benefit from the power. Dan Clark Audio, Hifiman and higher impedance dynamic drivers. But the gear only enables the headphones to function properly. There’s nothing inherently better about dedicated DAC/AMPs.

What you hear and what you experience are two different things. I really like my Grado Hemps. I’m listening with Hifiman Edition XS right now. Both sound really good. But the Hifimans somehow enhance my experience. They just need more amplification to perform as they’re designed to.

Edit: I didn't even know about Piety until the day it launched. Buying it was a no-brainer for obvious reasons. Then I bought the Modi Mutibit to go with it. Previously, I was considering another integrated DAC/Amp. But I chose to buy the Hifiman HE1000 V2s because of my response to the Edition XS. They were also discounted $1,000. The experience from upgrading headphones was profound compared to differences in DACs at this level.

People listening to a Chord Dave report having a visceral response to that experience. But that’s a $14,000 investment.
 
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Dec 10, 2022 at 11:49 AM Post #630 of 1,648
Piety (bottom) vs Magni+ (top) rear ends.
 

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