[Rip N' Burn]

What is Phonak thinking? I can get the Westone UM2 (dual driver as well) with removable cables for less than half the price of the 232. I predict that the msrp will drop within months just like the EX1000.

 

[goodvibes]

UM2 RC from an authorized dealer will be $299 but that's obviusly still much cheaper. If parts count is more important than engineering and sound than you have every right not to participate. I doubt that those that may prefer it to a W4 sonically will have an issue with the price.
 
I also wouldn't expect Phonak to adjust the pricing. It's not their main business and they've priced it according to their sensibilities. It certainly didn't happen to earlier models.

 

[Rip N' Burn]

Take into account earphonesolutions current discount code and it's still less than half. I also took into account the engineering and sound for the UM2 so I decided to participate. I can't comment on the 232 until I have heard it. They didn't adjust the pricing for the original PFE because it was a great value for the sound it produced. How is a difference of a few hundred dollars justified for the new 232 in Phonak's point of view?
 
Quote:

UM2 RC from an authorized dealer will be $299 but that's obviusly still much cheaper. If parts count is more important than engineering and sound than you have every right not to participate. I doubt that those that may prefer it to a W4 sonically will have an issue with the price.
 
I also wouldn't expect Phonak to adjust the pricing. It's not their main business and they've priced it according to their sensibilities. It certainly didn't happen to earlier models.

 

 

[EraserXIV]

Quote:

Off the top of my head, I would go from 'leanest/thinnest' to 'lushest/thickest' like this, disregarding any other qualities of the phones:  ER4 > q-Jays > PFE 112 > FI-BA-SS > Westone 4 > PFE 232 > SM3 > SE530 (not 100% sure about FI-BA-SS vs. W4, haven't heard both in quite a while).

My interested is piqued... I realize you only put down BAs, but where would the RE262 fit in that spectrum?
 
That is if you've heard the RE262

 

[dfkt]

Sorry, haven't heard the 262, only the 252, a long time ago. I would certainly put those on the thinner end of the spectrum.

 

[EraserXIV]

Hmm alright, the RE262 is much more lush and sweet than the RE252, which is what I loved about them. I would definitely put them in my top 3 IEMs I've ever heard and I feel in love with how they presented mids as full and lush.  Only problem I found with them was the difficulty driving them out of a portable player and I'm not a big fan of carrying around an amp since that kind of defeats the purpose.
 
I really liked the SM3 too, but found it to be just a tad too thick and lose a bit out in clarity compared to the RE262. The PFE232 sounds like it may be close to what I'm looking for. How hard is it to drive?

 

[dfkt]

The 232 aren't the loudest phones out there, Phonak being a hearing aid company and all, but they go a bit louder than the 112. My Clip+ is seriously quiet (even more than normal due to Rockbox and using Replaygain) and for my needs the 232 are loud enough in the upper quarter of the Clip's volume range. With the 112 I often hit 0dB in Rockbox, with the 232 it's more around -10 to -5dB or so, depending on surroundings (and -20 to -15dB when it's quiet).
 
The 232 aren't as weighty in the lower midrange as the SM3, and the treble response is very different as a whole. To my ears, the 232 are as clear as it gets without sounding thin.

 

[chi2]

Quote:

 

Thank you for reading the specs, but I trust my ears if you do't mind!
Maybe you still are right, but the 112 has no bass weight and is very thin. Low bass has cracking sounds. Same with the highs. You can hear and feel its limits. Not so with the W4.

Who was talking of specifications? Specs for W3 and W4 claim a top limit of 18kHz. Take a series of sine tones and listen - and that's what you get: W2 reach significantly higher than W3 and W4 which use the same high frequency driver. For confirmation, have a look at the measurements by sonove.angry.jp and goldenears.net:
 


 
As the W2 the Phonak Audeo PFE 1xx with grey filters reach real 16.5 kHz - which can be heard with said sine tones. My reaction was against the stereotype that a single driver IEM automatically must be crippled. The PFE 1xx has better extension in the highs than systems with three and four drivers. Only in the lows the PFE's spl is somewhat taken back compared to other IEMs with deliberately increased bass response. When commuting I prefer an (equalized) IE8 or JH13 with a bass response north of neutral due to the external low frequency noise. BTW: In case you don't like the green filters I fully agree as they veil the mids and highs.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

Hello DFKT,
 
Is it possible, if it's not already done, to compare the 232 to the W4 in terms of balance and to tell which one is more balanced to you? If we can talk about "hi-fidelity", which one is more close to "reality"? When speaking about soundstage, instrument separation, dynamics, which one is better?
 
As a lot of people, I want to upgrade from what I have without going to customs and I want to know if the 232 are an upgrade from W4 or just a different sound.
 
Thank you very much.

 

[Inks]

Originally Posted by chi2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Who was talking of specifications? Specs for W3 and W4 claim a top limit of 18kHz. Take a series of sine tones and listen - and that's what you get: W2 reach significantly higher than W3 and W4 which use the same high frequency driver. For confirmation, have a look at the measurements by sonove.angry.jp and goldenears.net:
 


 
As the W2 the Phonak Audeo PFE 1xx with grey filters reach real 16.5 kHz - which can be heard with said sine tones. My reaction was against the stereotype that a single driver IEM automatically must be crippled. The PFE 1xx has better extension in the highs than systems with three and four drivers. Only in the lows the PFE's spl is somewhat taken back compared to other IEMs with deliberately increased bass response. When commuting I prefer an (equalized) IE8 or JH13 with a bass response north of neutral due to the external low frequency noise. BTW: In case you don't like the green filters I fully agree as they veil the mids and highs.

I wouldn't compare graphs from different sources, there are lot's of variables to take into account. Until Sonove graphs the Westone 2 or GE graphs the 3 and 4s, I'll hold on unto that claim. 
 
 

 

[dfkt]

Quote:

Hello DFKT,
 
Is it possible, if it's not already done, to compare the 232 to the W4 in terms of balance and to tell which one is more balanced to you? If we can talk about "hi-fidelity", which one is more close to "reality"? When speaking about soundstage, instrument separation, dynamics, which one is better?
 
As a lot of people, I want to upgrade from what I have without going to customs and I want to know if the 232 are an upgrade from W4 or just a different sound.
 
Thank you very much.

I'd have to compare them side by side with James444's W4 for a more in-depth verdict, but I'd say for my ears the W4 are the more 'neutral' ones and the PFE 232 the more 'natural' ones. 'Reality' is in the ear of the beholder - I find the grander sound from the 232 more realistic, but that's a very subjective thing everyone has to decide for themselves.
 
Soundstage is probably about the same on both - it's good, but I never experienced any armature IEMs to sound as spacious as (semi-) open dynamic driver ones. The 232 might be among the fastest, most dynamic IEMs at the moment, pretty sure they surpass the W4 in that aspect.
 
James444 has to borrow my 232 and add his 2 Euro-cent, for a more balanced (ba-dum-dish!) opinion.
 

 

[Ultrazino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sly_in_the_sky /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Is it possible, if it's not already done, to compare the 232 to the W4 in terms of balance and to tell which one is more balanced to you? If we can talk about "hi-fidelity", which one is more close to "reality"? When speaking about soundstage, instrument separation, dynamics, which one is better?

The W4 is not balanced at all, or I have the wrong definition. The W4 is warm.
 
The one thing why I also want the PFE 232 next to the W4 is because the W4 has veiled mids. The SE535 has crystal clear voices, but it's also more fatiguing. The W4 is the most unfatiguing IEM I ever heard, without feeling too relaxed or too smooth. I expect the PFE to head more into the direction of the UE-4, but I can only guess from what I heard with the PFE 112.

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

Thank you for the informations... to my ears, the W4 are not "colored" or warm... but to what I understand, one is not really better to another and it's just a taste choice...

 

[mp3]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that they would come with two cables, one with a mic and one without, is this true?

 

[dfkt]

Yes.