[procreate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now there is a difference between driving and truly making a can shine. When I use my K701 with an amp I listen to the same overall sound pressure level as if it was driven straight out of an unmodde ipod. That is with the iPod volume at about 60% to 70%. However with the amp even though the overall volume is the same having the power reserves of the amp it allows transients to be played to the fullest instead of cutting off some of the wave due to clipping from the iPod amp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have said the supermicro IV can drive demanding full size cans to high volumes, but in your opinion do you feel it can drive them to "sing", or quite close to those full size amps you mentioned before?

Miguel, if I may, and please correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you wrote.

Kabeer, Miguel has given you the answer specific to his listening habits. Simply said, at the volume that he uses (iPod volume at about 60% to 70%), the amp has enough reserve to drive a full-size can with authority (allows transients to be played to the fullest).

If you listen at higher volumes, it might not have those reserves.

 

[procreate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why does soundstage improve with an amp? What is the electrical principle? Is more current dedicated to a special channel responsible for soundstage?

Maybe it's simpler than that: The dedicated amp is of higher quality than the DAPs internal amp. This is very clear when using an iPod.

 

[cooperpwc]

Just a semantic point but people are now calling the Reference a version of the SuperMacro (including mrarroyo who knows much more about it than I) but still... I'm not convinced that such is correct. The Reference has the basic case of the Super Macro but otherwise I'm not convinced that Dr. Xin considers it a version of the SuperMacro (from our brief exchanges of emails) nor does it necessarily have anything else in common with the SuperMacro.

I think that the Reference is just the Reference. Closest to the SuperMicro in nature but actually a new fourth line in the Xin amp stable.

Am I wrong?

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooperpwc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just a semantic point but people are now calling the Reference a version of the SuperMacro (including mrarroyo who knows much more about it than I) but still... I'm not convinced that such is correct. The Reference has the basic case of the Super Macro but otherwise I'm not convinced that Dr. Xin considers it a version of the SuperMacro (from our brief exchanges of emails) nor does it necessarily have anything else in common with the SuperMacro. I think that the Reference is just the Reference. Closest to the SuperMicro in nature but actually a new fourth line in the Xin amp stable. Am I wrong?

I asked Dr. Xin a question about the Reference amp, "And is it soncally similar to the supermicro? or better in any way?"
His reply : "Similar to SuperMicro-IV." Now the answer is quite ambigious in itself so probably not to take it as definitive, but the Dr says its similar to supermicro. All things aside it seems to be a supermicro on steroids.

Procreate: thanks for your reply, maybe Mrarroyo can confirm, but from what I read I dont think he was talking about the supermicro IV in that respect. Which is why I asked the question, but you might be right, hopefully he can confirm.

Thanks

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by procreate /img/forum/go_quote.gif Miguel, if I may, and please correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you wrote. Kabeer, Miguel has given you the answer specific to his listening habits. Simply said, at the volume that he uses (iPod volume at about 60% to 70%), the amp has enough reserve to drive a full-size can with authority (allows transients to be played to the fullest). If you listen at higher volumes, it might not have those reserves.

Thanks for the input but that is not what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. The amps made by Dr. Xin can drive them to great levels and makes them sing. Vorlon1 plays his music VERY LOUD, and he finds that Xin's amps drive the various cans mentioned to very loud levels.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooperpwc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just a semantic point but people are now calling the Reference a version of the SuperMacro (including mrarroyo who knows much more about it than I) but still... I'm not convinced that such is correct. The Reference has the basic case of the Super Macro but otherwise I'm not convinced that Dr. Xin considers it a version of the SuperMacro (from our brief exchanges of emails) nor does it necessarily have anything else in common with the SuperMacro. I think that the Reference is just the Reference. Closest to the SuperMicro in nature but actually a new fourth line in the Xin amp stable. Am I wrong?

You seem to be on the right track. The word Supermacro and Reference were not used together by Dr. Xin on his email to me. Here is what he did write:

Code:

[left]Basically it is a mega version of SuperMicro-IV, in a metal case and super long battery life.[/left]

 

[procreate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the input but that is not what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. The amps made by Dr. Xin can drive them to great levels and makes them sing. Vorlon1 plays his music VERY LOUD, and he finds that Xin's amps drive the various cans mentioned to very loud levels.

In that case, we differ in opinion. Although I do love my Xin amp, it is no match for a home amp. Take e.g. the Beyer DT770. I kinda like the sound out of my Xin, but that's only because it doesn't have the power to get the bass out. I detest the DT770 out of, say, a Singlepower PPX3 Slam. The Slam also makes the RS-1 sing (I liked it better than the MAD), but again, not the out of the Xin.

This is not good for me as so far, I shared your opinion on most things and I used you (hmmm, "used" sounds so nasty, but you know what I mean) to make purchases without auditioning. Don't tell me that is the only way for me now.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was interested in the same thing: I'd like to know if there are portable amps that can actually make full sized cans shine. It would save me to buy two amps, one for iems and one for cans. Also, another question for MrArroyo. Why does soundstage improve with an amp? What is the electrical principle? Is more current dedicated to a special channel responsible for soundstage? Etymotic, for example, have in your head soundstage, though EFN made them present huge soundstage using the Supermicro IV. I'm studying bioengineering, so I undestand some electronics, and I'm interested to understand as much as I can about the effects of a portable amp.

Tony, I do not know why soundstage improves with an amp. I have used the Etymotic ER4P with a Supermicro IV and the soundstage is the largest I have ever heard with the Etymotics, why? don't know.

As far as your first question I feel that many of the amps I have heard will drive any full size can (250 or 300 ohm) and make them sing. However, IMO even the best portable amp can not compete with a well designed home amp. Basically because of the power supply and limitations with some of the internal components, at least that is what an EE told me.

Miguel

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by procreate /img/forum/go_quote.gif In that case, we differ in opinion. Although I do love my Xin amp, it is no match for a home amp. Take e.g. the Beyer DT770. I kinda like the sound out of my Xin, but that's only because it doesn't have the power to get the bass out. I detest the DT770 out of, say, a Singlepower PPX3 Slam. The Slam also makes the RS-1 sing (I liked it better than the MAD), but again, not the out of the Xin. This is not good for me as so far, I shared your opinion on most things and I used you (hmmm, "used" sounds so nasty, but you know what I mean) to make purchases without auditioning. Don't tell me that is the only way for me now.

We agree we are just not communicating well, that is all. We both (I think) recognize that a good portable amp like the ones we are discussing can make a can play very loud (even a Senn HD600). However we both agree that for example even though it is loud the can does not sound as good as when driven by a good home amp.

Hope I said it better this time.

 

[procreate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, IMO even the best portable amp can not compete with a well designed home amp. Basically because of the power supply and limitations with some of the internal components, at least that is what an EE told me.

And … we're back on track!

There's at least three people on this board that describe audio in a way that I understand, and their experiences with gear confirm what I hear. I'd really hate to shorten that list.

 

[mrarroyo]

Sorry duplicate post.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by procreate /img/forum/go_quote.gif And … we're back on track! There's at least three people on this board that describe audio in a way that I understand, and their experiences with gear confirm what I hear. I'd really hate to shorten that list.

 

[kaushama]

I don't think there is any portable amp, which can outperform good home amp. The bottleneck is in the power supply. Batteries do give some noise and have less headroom in producing transients needed in complex music pieces.

But Xin amps do perform very well than other portables due to another factors than power supply. Anyway PS has been the weakest link in channel IV amps until 4/11 Mods. Dr. Xin seems to have simplified the single ended PS.
All xin amps seems to have separated L&R channels, pre-power stages and ground channels into independent planes. Hence channel IV amps!! It reduces cross talk to minimal levels. Least cross-talk, clarity, accurate timbre and intensity all will cause headstage or soundstage to expand due to bi-aural Psycho-acoustics.

 

[d-cee]

not only the power supply but also compromises in size/parts selection in portable amps

now, it's a gross generalisation and i hesitate to make it, but usually portable amps are restricted by size, weight and power. this is what makes them "portable" and for sure there are good portables

but a home amp has so much more potential (rather than performance) than a portable, because it does not have to use as many/any surface mount components and also can have a big whopping transformer among other things to make sure that it has everything it needs

basically a portable must make compromises to remain "portable" though amps like the LISA III are bordering that line lol whereas a home amp doesn't necessarily have to have such compromises unless the designer picked out his case before designing the circuit of course

given that, I'm still keen on Dr Xin's reference amp as I've never really followed the portable scene, and if his amps are everything they're made to be - i mean people are willing to wait MONTHS for these What!! - hopefully I can make portable listening a regular part of my lifestyle.

 

[EFN]

If anything, SuperMicro-IV does not sound like a portable amp at all, despite the deceiving size and nondescript look. All other "portables" that I have listened to previously sounded like...well portables, but not SMIV - yeah I am on the verge of becoming a Xin zealot, can't help it, the product just speaks for themselves.