New Schiit! Ragnarok and Yggdrasil

[estreeter]

I would tend to want to wait until the Yggdrasil is actually released and in the wild for a bit before making too many statements about how it does or doesn't perform.

I've heard the prototype and all I will say is that I liked what I heard for now.

 
Am I the only one who has considered the fact that the projected deadline for Yggy's release into the wild is awfully close to April 1 - it would line up with their finely tuned sense of humor at Schiit to do something midweek : cruel and inhuman when we've waited so long for this thing. 

 

[Ableza]

Yes, all this noise about how wonderful Yggdrasil is or isn't is pointless speculation until there are actual shipping units for people to try.  What the hell is wrong with people?

 

[StanT]

  Yes, all this noise about how wonderful Yggdrasil is or isn't is pointless speculation until there are actual shipping units for people to try.  What the hell is wrong with people?

Ya, I'm not quite understanding the over-analysis without something to actually analyze.
 
I'll likely buy a Yggdrasil and place it next to my NAD M51. Winner stays, loser goes (and I REALLY like my NAD).
 
It took all of 3 days to decide that my Ragnarok was staying and to put it's predecessor up on Ebay. We'll see; but for this, my ear is the only criteria that counts.

 

[mikek200]

   
Am I the only one who has considered the fact that the projected deadline for Yggy's release into the wild is awfully close to April 1 - it would line up with their finely tuned sense of humor at Schiit to do something midweek : cruel and inhuman when we've waited so long for this thing. 

 
And to make things even worse  ..April 15 is another deadline,where some of us,have to pay our taxes.
No mater,what..On my stax setup,this will definitely be one dac,I am going to buy,asap.
Considering all the work Mike has put into this,and,as  I am always trying to eak out every bit of SQ,from the 009 ,& new KGST amp,I am buying the Yiggy asap..
 
I always have said,Schiit buts out the best quality  vs., dollar products.,this is no exception.
I think,we will all,be blown out of our socks,when it comes out..

 

[Articnoise]

  I never had a chance to hear it myself, but I believe that ALRAINBOW used the fully maxed out OR5 via hdmi i2s with a ps audio directstream dac and reported minor differences, to a decrease in sound quality. Not saying that the directstream dac = Yggy, but that there are examples of dacs that do not improve dramatically even via i2s. It honestly seems the M7 was something of a phenom when it came to it's compatibility with hdmi i2s and improved because of it far more than the average dac. It has been said in another thread that a maxed out Off-Ramp 4 might have sounded a little better with the Yggy over stock inputs, but that the stock performance was exceptional regardless. 
 
At this point, I'm personally against spending thousands on a tiny converter for 1 input, but that might just be me.
This is very true. If the Yggy doesn't meet or exceed my expectations, I'm done with dac hunts for good. I'm hoping it's the real thing but i've burned myself in the past before...

 

Sure it may improve far more on the M7 than the average dac. To be fair it was the crappie USB 32 that mostly hold the M7 back and the SPDIF input even if not sounding fantastic it’s still ok.  

To use I2S as a way of transfer audio signals between gears is something that has increased in recent years, just look at all the streamers and severs coming out. My point was, if it wasn’t clear, that without trying i2s one wouldn’t really know how it would change the SQ, for better or worse.

MSB is of many considered one of the best dac company of today. They have has used i2s for many years. If you like you can read what they says about it. http://www.msbtech.com/products/pro.php?Page=platinumHome

 

[Clemmaster]

It has been said in another thread that a maxed out Off-Ramp 4 might have sounded a little better with the Yggy over stock inputs, but that the stock performance was exceptional regardless. 

It was with .96 version. I don't know if this Yggy had the gen 3 USB board. We didn't try USB input on the setup the Offramp 4 was in, so I cannot comment on USB vs Offramp 4. I don't know if Marv later tried the offramp 4 and actually compared it to USB.

 

[Argo Duck]

It's May 10 in Thailand :eek:

Have you seen/heard Yggy?!

Jason or Mike threw 10 April around when they exceeded one of their deadlines by 10 days but that has since been revised. Expect something shortly after CANJAM at the end of this month - given that we're already at May 10 here in Thailand I'm cautiously optimistic that the last 7 phases on Mike's project plan will take considerably less time than the first two  

 

[estreeter]

It's May 10 in Thailand

Have you seen/heard Yggy?!

 
Fixed- wishful thinking on my part !
 
I doubt that anyone on this side of the Pacific has seen or heard Yggy - happy to hear otherwise. I think Currawong will be flying from Japan for CANJAM but that's as close as its likely to get. 

 

[purrin]

On the i2s:
 

• i2s by itself does not any have magikal properties, nor does it eliminate "sucky" USB since it would still have to involve a USB input foir i2s output, unless the the i2s output is from a spinner. Not all USB to i2s converters or data transports with i2s outputs are equal. It's more likely than not that a cheap i2s converter like the AGD or Custard is going to sound worse or at best different from the built-in Gen 3 USB on the Yggdrasil.
• What i2s "standard"? This is the $64,000 question. Will we be using the PS Audio HDMI standard? This will cost Schiit extra money because they will need to pay the "HDMI club" fees. Or maybe we should use the MSB standard? Or perhaps the RJ-45 pin-outs from Empirical Audio which expects a certain load on the outputs? Or perhaps the Audio-GD RJ-45 pin-outs which are different from Empirical Audio's that expect a different kind of load on the outputs. Or maybe the Custard's i2s, which works with who knows what. While we are at it, why don't we throw m2Tech's i2s implementation into the fray. This is just a can of worms I don't see Schiit getting into without pricing the Yggdrasil at $15,000.

 
Comparison of i2s and other data transmission formats with a few DACs (not comprehensive list) in order of sound quality (my opinion):
 

• Computer --> USB Gen 3 | Schiit Yggdrasil .99
• Computer --> USB Gen 2 | Schiit Yggdrasil .96
• Empirical Audio -- AES3 --> Yggdrasil .96 (tied with above - different, not worse/better)
• <gap>
• Theta Data III Transport -- ST/AT&T glass fibre --> Theta Gen Va
• Empirical Audio -- AES3 --> Theta Gen Va
• Theta Data III Transport -- AES3 --> Theta Gen Va (tied with above - different, not worse/better)
• Theta Data III Transport -- SPDIF--> Theta Gen Va
• <gap>
• Theta Data III Transport -- AES3 --> Sonic Frontiers SFD-1mk2 SE+
• Empirical Audio -- AES3 --> Sonic Frontiers SFD-1mk2 SE+
• Computer -- USB --> MSB Analog DAC
• Empirical Audio -- HDMI i2s --> DACLadder HDMI receiver | Audio-gd Master 7
• Empirical Audio -- HDMI i2s --> PWD1->2 (tied with above - different, not worse/better)
• Empirical Audio -- RJ45 i2s --> Audio-gd Master 7

 
Conclusion: Stop being ghey (this term is used in order to not offend anyone in the LGBT community).

 

[Articnoise]

  On the i2s:
 

• i2s by itself does not any have magikal properties, nor does it eliminate "sucky" USB since it would still have to involve a USB input foir i2s output, unless the the i2s output is from a spinner. Not all USB to i2s converters or data transports with i2s outputs are equal. It's more likely than not that a cheap i2s converter like the AGD or Custard is going to sound worse or at best different from the built-in Gen 3 USB on the Yggdrasil.
• What i2s "standard"? This is the $64,000 question. Will we be using the PS Audio HDMI standard? This will cost Schiit extra money because they will need to pay the "HDMI club" fees. Or maybe we should use the MSB standard? Or perhaps the RJ-45 pin-outs from Empirical Audio which expects a certain load on the outputs? Or perhaps the Audio-GD RJ-45 pin-outs which are different from Empirical Audio's that expect a different kind of load on the outputs. Or maybe the Custard's i2s, which works with who knows what. While we are at it, why don't we throw m2Tech's i2s implementation into the fray. This is just a can of worms I don't see Schiit getting into without pricing the Yggdrasil at $15,000.

 
Comparison of i2s and other data transmission formats with a few DACs (not comprehensive list) in order of sound quality (my opinion):
 

• Computer --> USB Gen 3 | Schiit Yggdrasil .99
• Computer --> USB Gen 2 | Schiit Yggdrasil .96
• Empirical Audio -- AES3 --> Yggdrasil .96 (tied with above - different, not worse/better)
• <gap>
• Theta Data III Transport -- ST/AT&T glass fibre --> Theta Gen Va
• Empirical Audio -- AES3 --> Theta Gen Va
• Theta Data III Transport -- AES3 --> Theta Gen Va (tied with above - different, not worse/better)
• Theta Data III Transport -- SPDIF--> Theta Gen Va
• <gap>
• Theta Data III Transport -- AES3 --> Sonic Frontiers SFD-1mk2 SE+
• Empirical Audio -- AES3 --> Sonic Frontiers SFD-1mk2 SE+
• Computer -- USB --> MSB Analog DAC
• Empirical Audio -- HDMI i2s --> DACLadder HDMI receiver | Audio-gd Master 7
• Empirical Audio -- HDMI i2s --> PWD1->2 (tied with above - different, not worse/better)
• Empirical Audio -- RJ45 i2s --> Audio-gd Master 7

 
Conclusion: Stop being ghey (this term is used in order to not offend anyone in the LGBT community).

1.     1. What about Linn Klimax does it have a USB to i2s converter or are they skipping this? And the real question for me is can converting from USB to i2s be eliminated and   what the benefits of it.

2.      2. What i2s standard is used in all the streamers and servers that are using i2s?

3.      3. As I think the input matters I must be ghey what ever it means. Yes I guess it’s something less favorable, but hack if it what it takes to have an opinion I’m that.

 

[purrin]

I dunno, you tell me what Linn, Rpi, Rendu, etc. use. I don't keep track of what everyone uses, the pin outs, the the types of data on the lines, the physical interfaces.

I mean, you do realize that DACs with a USB receiver convert to i2s internally before handing off to the chip.

If rolling external USB receivers with output down to the i2s level is important for you, best to look elsewhere.

At this point, I doubt Schiit wants to deal with the random idiot plugging the +3.3v line from their Custard Audio "i2s" converter into the wrong pin of the Sharc processor. Yes, people do a lot of stupid stuff, especially in audio.

 

[Clemmaster]

Not to mention the devices that are supposed to work with PS Audio compatible* devices, but don't (yes, I'm looking at you Audiobyte Hydra-X+ and Z 

)

 

[Articnoise]

I dunno, you tell me what Linn, Rpi, Rendu, etc. use. I don't keep track of what everyone uses, the pin outs, the the types of data on the lines, the physical interfaces.

I mean, you do realize that DACs with a USB receiver convert to i2s internally before handing off to the chip.

If rolling external USB receivers with output down to the i2s level is important for you, best to look elsewhere.

At this point, I doubt Schiit wants to deal with the random idiot plugging the +3.3v line from their Custard Audio "i2s" converter into the wrong pin of the Sharc processor. Yes, people do a lot of stupid stuff, especially in audio.

 

I didn’t say or mean that the i2s is more important than other components in a dac only that I think that it’s one important part. At least from my experience.

I do realize that DACs with a USB receiver convert to i2s internally before handing off to the chip. It’s why I asked for the benefits if not converting from USB to i2s at all and instead stream i2s. Less converting steps and all that.

 

[7ryder]

 

1.     1. What about Linn Klimax does it have a USB to i2s converter or are they skipping this? And the real question for me is can converting from USB to i2s be eliminated and   what the benefits of it.

2.      2. What i2s standard is used in all the streamers and servers that are using i2s?

3.      3. As I think the input matters I must be ghey what ever it means. Yes I guess it’s something less favorable, but hack if it what it takes to have an opinion I’m that.

Linn DS players don't use USB, they use Ethernet. 

 

[purrin]

  Linn DS players don't use USB, they use Ethernet. 

 
Jason, can you support Ethernet and ST/AT&T glass optical?