[bajs1988]

Went ahead and preordered. Distributor said it will be here in six weeks. It's going to be a long and agonizing wait lol

 

[emilsoft]

Went ahead and preordered. Distributor said it will be here in six weeks. It's going to be a long and agonizing wait lol

I admire the blind faith! I am tempted too - it’s McIntosh and if they know one thing it’s amplifiers!

 

[TSAVJason]

@TSAVJason do you have any info on whether the MHA200 will be able to drive planars like the 1266TC?

Normally at 500mW I’d say flat out no, but the MHA150 puts out only 1W at high gain and is excellent with the 1266

I’m told it does. That said, I’ll be able to determine that for myself very soon.

 

[purk]

Not a bad price at all!

 

[davehg]

Interesting tube compliments. i usually see 12AT7 as a line stage or phono stage tube, and the 12BH7 is like a super 12AU7 - again more common in line stage tubes rather than output tubes.

The only thing I see I don’t like is the power cord connector, should’ve used a standard IEC for those of us that like our big power cords.

 

[TSAVJason]

Interesting tube compliments. i usually see 12AT7 as a line stage or phono stage tube, and the 12BH7 is like a super 12AU7 - again more common in line stage tubes rather than output tubes.

The only thing I see I don’t like is the power cord connector, should’ve used a standard IEC for those of us that like our big power cords.

Fully agree about the IEC

 

[SilverTrumpet999]

Sure, I get that but what I wonder is how does McIntosh do that while no other amps use this technique. Or do they actually do anything or just measure differently.
Forgive me but I’m not well known with the brand, only started reading up a bit about them a few months ago since my dealer now started with McIntosh/Sonus Faber next to brands like B&W, Marantz, Luxman, Classe ...
From what I read on fora McIntosh are indeed powerful amps but are often outclassed by other top brands when it comes to SQ.
Those are only opinions on fora though.

The secret here isn't a secret nor is it snake oil. McIntosh amps - well, the "true McIntosh" ones (there are some cheaper modes which do not, but disregard those for now) - use a technology nobody else anywhere uses: Unity-Coupled Output Transformers. These are very difficult to wind and the circuits are dramatically different because of how they operate compared to just about everything else in existence. They had a patent for these way back when, but it's long since run out. The circuits are now well known, but winding these transformers is so difficult nobody has bothered to compete on their "turf."

These transformers have a single input tap from the tubes and multiple distinct output taps which allow them to couple the tube voltage swing to specific impedance ranges. In essence, they seamlessly match the amp to your speakers (or, in this case, headphones). This matching lets them excel at some things normal amps cannot do well. There's a reason people love McIntosh amps for planar speakers. My fully restored MC60s (60W/ch) drive my Martin Logan Aerius i panels FAR better than a 200W monster of a solid state amp.

This is also why people shouldn't get hung up on the power rating. McIntosh unity-coupled amps always overdeliver on specs, but most of the time your comparison solid state "2W" amp is delivering a measly fraction of its power into a higher impedance load, and this would beat it handily. I'm really keen to hear how this sounds/performs.

Good but brief discussion on the design goals and other McIntosh history: http://roger-russell.com/mcintosh1.htm#unitycoupled

Somewhat longer take on audiokarma https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...mcintoshs-unity-coupled-circuit-works.569405/

 

[ThanatosVI]

The secret here isn't a secret nor is it snake oil. McIntosh amps - well, the "true McIntosh" ones (there are some cheaper modes which do not, but disregard those for now) - use a technology nobody else anywhere uses: Unity-Coupled Output Transformers. These are very difficult to wind and the circuits are dramatically different because of how they operate compared to just about everything else in existence. They had a patent for these way back when, but it's long since run out. The circuits are now well known, but winding these transformers is so difficult nobody has bothered to compete on their "turf."

These transformers have a single input tap from the tubes and multiple distinct output taps which allow them to couple the tube voltage swing to specific impedance ranges. In essence, they seamlessly match the amp to your speakers (or, in this case, headphones). This matching lets them excel at some things normal amps cannot do well. There's a reason people love McIntosh amps for planar speakers. My fully restored MC60s (60W/ch) drive my Martin Logan Aerius i panels FAR better than a 200W monster of a solid state amp.

This is also why people shouldn't get hung up on the power rating. McIntosh unity-coupled amps always overdeliver on specs, but most of the time your comparison solid state "2W" amp is delivering a measly fraction of its power into a higher impedance load, and this would beat it handily. I'm really keen to hear how this sounds/performs.

Good but brief discussion on the design goals and other McIntosh history: http://roger-russell.com/mcintosh1.htm#unitycoupled

Somewhat longer take on audiokarma https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...mcintoshs-unity-coupled-circuit-works.569405/

Thanks for sharing this info

 

[AppleheadMay]

The secret here isn't a secret nor is it snake oil. McIntosh amps - well, the "true McIntosh" ones (there are some cheaper modes which do not, but disregard those for now) - use a technology nobody else anywhere uses: Unity-Coupled Output Transformers. These are very difficult to wind and the circuits are dramatically different because of how they operate compared to just about everything else in existence. They had a patent for these way back when, but it's long since run out. The circuits are now well known, but winding these transformers is so difficult nobody has bothered to compete on their "turf."

These transformers have a single input tap from the tubes and multiple distinct output taps which allow them to couple the tube voltage swing to specific impedance ranges. In essence, they seamlessly match the amp to your speakers (or, in this case, headphones). This matching lets them excel at some things normal amps cannot do well. There's a reason people love McIntosh amps for planar speakers. My fully restored MC60s (60W/ch) drive my Martin Logan Aerius i panels FAR better than a 200W monster of a solid state amp.

This is also why people shouldn't get hung up on the power rating. McIntosh unity-coupled amps always overdeliver on specs, but most of the time your comparison solid state "2W" amp is delivering a measly fraction of its power into a higher impedance load, and this would beat it handily. I'm really keen to hear how this sounds/performs.

Good but brief discussion on the design goals and other McIntosh history: http://roger-russell.com/mcintosh1.htm#unitycoupled

Somewhat longer take on audiokarma https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...mcintoshs-unity-coupled-circuit-works.569405/

Thanks for taking the time to explain this to me!
I knew it couldn't be a patent since it would be long gone.

My dealer will get the MHA200 for me to audition (he has no other headphone enthusiasts) and compare with my Luxman SQ-N150 which I use both from the headphone output as well as balanced from the speaker outputs to drive headphones.
But since he has the MA352 as well I'm thinking of bringing my own Luxman L-509X to the dealer and compare these two on my speakers, he has those too.

Three more questions for you if I may:
- do you know if the MA352 is a fully balanced amp and if it uses those Unity-Coupled transformers as well?
- Any idea about the MA352's headphone output as an additional bonus?
- Are you familiar with the Luxman integrateds and what do you think of those?

 

[SilverTrumpet999]

MA352 is tube preamp but direct driven. It doesn't have autoformers for the headphone output, nor the speaker output. I am really not that familiar with McIntosh designs without autoformers. I have no idea how the MA352's headphone output operates.

The MHA200's more appropriate speaker amp comparison is the MC275, but of course it has no headphone output.

 

[mvvRAZ]

The secret here isn't a secret nor is it snake oil. McIntosh amps - well, the "true McIntosh" ones (there are some cheaper modes which do not, but disregard those for now) - use a technology nobody else anywhere uses: Unity-Coupled Output Transformers. These are very difficult to wind and the circuits are dramatically different because of how they operate compared to just about everything else in existence. They had a patent for these way back when, but it's long since run out. The circuits are now well known, but winding these transformers is so difficult nobody has bothered to compete on their "turf."

These transformers have a single input tap from the tubes and multiple distinct output taps which allow them to couple the tube voltage swing to specific impedance ranges. In essence, they seamlessly match the amp to your speakers (or, in this case, headphones). This matching lets them excel at some things normal amps cannot do well. There's a reason people love McIntosh amps for planar speakers. My fully restored MC60s (60W/ch) drive my Martin Logan Aerius i panels FAR better than a 200W monster of a solid state amp.

This is also why people shouldn't get hung up on the power rating. McIntosh unity-coupled amps always overdeliver on specs, but most of the time your comparison solid state "2W" amp is delivering a measly fraction of its power into a higher impedance load, and this would beat it handily. I'm really keen to hear how this sounds/performs.

Good but brief discussion on the design goals and other McIntosh history: http://roger-russell.com/mcintosh1.htm#unitycoupled

Somewhat longer take on audiokarma https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...mcintoshs-unity-coupled-circuit-works.569405/

This is what I was looking for, thank you for sharing!

 

[Seamaster]

The secret here isn't a secret nor is it snake oil. McIntosh amps - well, the "true McIntosh" ones (there are some cheaper modes which do not, but disregard those for now) - use a technology nobody else anywhere uses: Unity-Coupled Output Transformers. These are very difficult to wind and the circuits are dramatically different because of how they operate compared to just about everything else in existence. They had a patent for these way back when, but it's long since run out. The circuits are now well known, but winding these transformers is so difficult nobody has bothered to compete on their "turf."

These transformers have a single input tap from the tubes and multiple distinct output taps which allow them to couple the tube voltage swing to specific impedance ranges. In essence, they seamlessly match the amp to your speakers (or, in this case, headphones). This matching lets them excel at some things normal amps cannot do well. There's a reason people love McIntosh amps for planar speakers. My fully restored MC60s (60W/ch) drive my Martin Logan Aerius i panels FAR better than a 200W monster of a solid state amp.

This is also why people shouldn't get hung up on the power rating. McIntosh unity-coupled amps always overdeliver on specs, but most of the time your comparison solid state "2W" amp is delivering a measly fraction of its power into a higher impedance load, and this would beat it handily. I'm really keen to hear how this sounds/performs.

Good but brief discussion on the design goals and other McIntosh history: http://roger-russell.com/mcintosh1.htm#unitycoupled

Somewhat longer take on audiokarma https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...mcintoshs-unity-coupled-circuit-works.569405/

Not to mention MC60s are bass monsters for tube amps. I had MC60 mono, now rocking a pair of MC30 with Yamazaki mods.

 

[SilverTrumpet999]

Not to mention MC60s are bass monsters for tube amps. I had MC60 mono, now rocking a pair of MC30 with Yamazaki mods.

I don't want to veer too far off topic, but suffice to say I learned a lot doing a complete refurbishment of my MC60s. They performed sluggish stock, but the transformers were intact so I brought them fully into the 21st century with highest quality components throughout. I replaced every capacitor and every resistor in my half-century-old bone-stock MC60s, and measured the ones which came out. Many had drifted way out of spec, not just the bumblebee caps but also the resistors.

They now perform better than original spec, and these tube amps from the 1950-60s were boasting specs which are still reference level today, especially for tubes: 20 Hz - 30 kHz +/- 0.1 dB at 60 watts. It's hard to squeeze a bunch of bass boost into a max 0.1 dB variation!

In short, most of these old McIntosh tube amps aren't performing at potential because to do the true full refurb is expensive and time consuming. But if you haven't, they almost certainly aren't performing at spec. Virtually all specimens should be evaluated in isolation rather than generalizing, depending on how well and completely they've been restored.

 

[AppleheadMay]

MA352 is tube preamp but direct driven. It doesn't have autoformers for the headphone output, nor the speaker output. I am really not that familiar with McIntosh designs without autoformers. I have no idea how the MA352's headphone output operates.

The MHA200's more appropriate speaker amp comparison is the MC275, but of course it has no headphone output.

Thanks, I still plan to audition the 352 and compare with my L-509X but will make sure I add a 7200 or 8900 as well so I get a taste of what those autoformers do.
The MC275 is a power amp and I prefer to stick with a top integrated instead.
Helpful posts, thank you, I can get started on discovering what McIntosh is about.
Luckily, my trusted dealer started with McIntosh halfway last year so I have a place to audiion a whole day and even into the night in peace with a glass of wine...

 

[AppleheadMay]

MA352 is tube preamp but direct driven. It doesn't have autoformers for the headphone output, nor the speaker output. I am really not that familiar with McIntosh designs without autoformers. I have no idea how the MA352's headphone output operates.

The MHA200's more appropriate speaker amp comparison is the MC275, but of course it has no headphone output.

Thanks, I still plan to audition the 352 and compare with my L-509X but will make sure I add a 7200 or 8900 as well so I get a taste of what those autoformers do.
The MC275 is a power amp and I prefer to stick with a top integrated instead.
Helpful posts, thank you, I can get started on discovering what McIntosh is about.
Luckily, my trusted dealer started with McIntosh halfway last year so I have a place to audiion a whole day and even into the night in peace with a glass of wine...