[jwbrent]

If I may ask a question:
Is the MHA200 a fully balanced amp?
Will it sound louder if you use the balanced inputs instead of the single-ended ones?
Or the balanced outputs instead of the single-ended one?

Edit: nevermind, I mistakingly thought you were from McIntosh support.

No worries, that’s a good question. I presume in order for the balanced out XLR jacks to function, there must be a source plugged into the rear panel balanced in. I read the manual, but it didn’t address this. Others with more experience using balanced headphone tube amps please chime in with your thoughts.

 

[carboncopy]

No worries, that’s a good question. I presume in order for the balanced out XLR jacks to function, there must be a source plugged into the rear panel balanced in. I read the manual, but it didn’t address this. Others with more experience using balanced headphone tube amps please chime in with your thoughts.

It is most probably not a fully balanced design. That would mean pro chanel 2 amps (in total 4 amps) with a 4 gang volume pot. I don’t think that’s the case here.

But it still can have a true balanced output, because it has a transformator output. That can be wired so, that even if the primary of the output transformator is driven not balanced it can have balanced output. Because the transformator is inherenetly a symmetrical device.

As for the input, there are several possibilities. (With a not fully balanced circuit after it)
1) Just one “hot” pin is used, in that case the balanced connector is just for convinince there.
2) Using an input transformator for summing the balanced input signal
3) using an extra summing circuit (by solid state designs it is often a plus IC or something, effectively making the sound worse by using balanced input)
4) Using an inherently summing circuit topology (for example a “long-tailed pair” circiut).

I don’t know which one is here used, but I am almost sure it’s not option 3.

 

[HeavenlyD]

Does an amp really make that much difference when it’s just power in theory, compared to a DAC which does the work so to speak?
I’m always amazed at the cost of many amps and don’t quite understand the importance over the same power amp at half the cost?
Happy to be enlightened...

 

[Fatdoi]

Does an amp really make that much difference when it’s just power in theory, compared to a DAC which does the work so to speak?
I’m always amazed at the cost of many amps and don’t quite understand the importance over the same power amp at half the cost?
Happy to be enlightened...

my audio friend compared the power amp to cars..... a big capacity V8 vs highly tuned 2000cc turbo 4.... both output same power but 2 totally different methods of delivery

 

[mvvRAZ]

Does an amp really make that much difference when it’s just power in theory, compared to a DAC which does the work so to speak?
I’m always amazed at the cost of many amps and don’t quite understand the importance over the same power amp at half the cost?
Happy to be enlightened...

The effect of the amp is significantly larger than that of the DAC. The DAC converts the signal while the amp is doing the majority of the work as well as is responsible for most of the coloration of the sound

 

[AppleheadMay]

No worries, that’s a good question. I presume in order for the balanced out XLR jacks to function, there must be a source plugged into the rear panel balanced in. I read the manual, but it didn’t address this. Others with more experience using balanced headphone tube amps please chime in with your thoughts.

Just got word from my dealer after 2 weeks. Not a fully balanced amp.

 

[Fatdoi]

Just got word from my dealer after 2 weeks. Not a fully balanced amp.

oh that's really bad news

 

[jwbrent]

Just got word from my dealer after 2 weeks. Not a fully balanced amp.

I don’t understand why the balanced connections if the amplifier doesn’t operate fully balanced. I suppose for compatibility’s sake for those that have balanced headphones.

I wonder if this is a semantics issue?

 

[Breguet]

I'm kind more interested in the MXA150, anyone used it?

 

[AppleheadMay]

I don’t understand why the balanced connections if the amplifier doesn’t operate fully balanced. I suppose for compatibility’s sake for those that have balanced headphones.

I wonder if this is a semantics issue?

Counting both headphone and speaker amps I think there are more unbalanced amps with balanced inputs than fully balanced amps. It's pretty common.

 

[bajs1988]

So I'm pretty new when it comes to headphone amps I've only owned one setup before getting the Focal utopia and preordering the MHA200. What would the downside be exactly with the amp not being fully balanced while pairing it with a balanced dac and using the balanced output on it?

 

[AppleheadMay]

Well, if your DAC is truly balanced (balanced outputs don't mean the whole signal path is balanced) then you would be converting a balanced signal to an unbalanced one and back to a balanced one for the phones output.

I'll leave the technicalities to the more technically skilled people here.

What I experienced is that the balanced output of a truly balanced amp sounds better than the unbalanced output of the same amp and has more power.

For unbalanced amps with balanced inputs and/or outputs sounding better is not always the case but sometimes it is.
Some of these have more power, some just sound louder (more gain) others have the same power/loudness on balanced and unbalanced.

In any case I think the MHA200 will be an interesting amp, I'll be able to try it out when it's released here (April) and will buy one if I like it compared to my Luxman SQ-N150.
I wouldn't reconsider your preorder if I were you, being truly balanced isn't everything and means nothing if the amp doesn't sound good in the first place.
There are (and I had) expensive truly balanced amps that sound like crap.
Some of the greatest amps are single ended (tube) amps, some of those have balanced in-/outputs, some don't.

 

[bajs1988]

Well, if your DAC is truly balanced (balanced outputs don't mean the whole signal path is balanced) then you would be converting a balanced signal to an unbalanced one and back to a balanced one for the phones output.

I'll leave the technicalities to the more technically skilled people here.

What I experienced is that the balanced output of a truly balanced amp sounds better than the unbalanced output of the same amp and has more power.

For unbalanced amps with balanced inputs and/or outputs sounding better is not always the case but sometimes it is.
Some of these have more power, some just sound louder (more gain) others have the same power/loudness on balanced and unbalanced.

In any case I think the MHA200 will be an interesting amp, I'll be able to try it out when it's released here (April) and will buy one if I like it compared to my Luxman SQ-N150.
I wouldn't reconsider your preorder if I were you, being truly balanced isn't everything and means nothing if the amp doesn't sound good in the first place.
There are (and I had) expensive truly balanced amps that sound like crap.
Some of the greatest amps are single ended (tube) amps, some of those have balanced in-/outputs, some don't.

Thanks for the information. I wasn't planning on canceling I was just curious. The DAC I ordered to pair with this is the SMSL SU9. It states that it's balanced but I'm unsure if it's truly balanced.

 

[TSAVJason]

I don’t understand why the balanced connections if the amplifier doesn’t operate fully balanced. I suppose for compatibility’s sake for those that have balanced headphones.

I wonder if this is a semantics issue?

it uses a transformer output stage making it a phase inverted balanced output rather than having a differential balanced output. It’s a nicely designed way of lowering costs and nearly
as good as a full differential ......

 

[LoryWiv]

Well, if your DAC is truly balanced (balanced outputs don't mean the whole signal path is balanced) then you would be converting a balanced signal to an unbalanced one and back to a balanced one for the phones output.

I'll leave the technicalities to the more technically skilled people here.

What I experienced is that the balanced output of a truly balanced amp sounds better than the unbalanced output of the same amp and has more power.

For unbalanced amps with balanced inputs and/or outputs sounding better is not always the case but sometimes it is.
Some of these have more power, some just sound louder (more gain) others have the same power/loudness on balanced and unbalanced.

In any case I think the MHA200 will be an interesting amp, I'll be able to try it out when it's released here (April) and will buy one if I like it compared to my Luxman SQ-N150.
I wouldn't reconsider your preorder if I were you, being truly balanced isn't everything and means nothing if the amp doesn't sound good in the first place.
There are (and I had) expensive truly balanced amps that sound like crap.
Some of the greatest amps are single ended (tube) amps, some of those have balanced in-/outputs, some don't.

Well said @AppleheadMay. It often comes down to design choices as you note, and I think sometimes when amp. manufacturers include balanced and unbalanced on a single amp. they invest more care / better parts in the balanced out, so that balanced sounds better not solely because of inherent superiority but based on that choice. I used to have a balanced SS amp. and now use a single ended OTL which I enjoy so much more. Like so much in this hobby, synergy with your other gear and trusting your own ears are the best determinants of what will be most enjoyable for you,. Balanced vs.. unbalanced options both can offer good value propositions. This is probably not that helpful to hear except to liberate you from the notion that it has to be "balanced or bust" if you like many other things about a piece of kit.