New Dragonfly Black and Red Discussion
Sep 8, 2016 at 8:28 AM Post #1,681 of 5,077
So just curious... For those who have gone through the burn in period with the DFR, what kind of differences are there before and after burn in? Im talking about comparing from initial out of the box use to anything greater than 30 or so hours of use. Just trying to get a handle on what to expect as I keep listening to the DFR.
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 10:57 AM Post #1,682 of 5,077
  So just curious... For those who have gone through the burn in period with the DFR, what kind of differences are there before and after burn in? Im talking about comparing from initial out of the box use to anything greater than 30 or so hours of use. Just trying to get a handle on what to expect as I keep listening to the DFR.

I found that right out of the box, music was definitely louder and slightly better in clarity.
 
After I let it run for about 2 days straight, that's when the instruments and vocals really seemed to separate. It was no longer a wall of sound...but more like hearing the individual instruments in the band playing alongside each other. Definitely made it more fun to listen to everything.
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 11:06 AM Post #1,683 of 5,077
  I found that right out of the box, music was definitely louder and slightly better in clarity.
 
After I let it run for about 2 days straight, that's when the instruments and vocals really seemed to separate. It was no longer a wall of sound...but more like hearing the individual instruments in the band playing alongside each other. Definitely made it more fun to listen to everything.

 
That's actually a very good description out of the box. Wall of Sound... lol. That's how I would describe it out of the box too. Well Im looking forward to better musical separation as time goes on. I also ordered the DFB (couldn't resist since its a steal at $100) so I'll be comparing both of them together once they're both sufficiently burned in. :)
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 1:01 PM Post #1,684 of 5,077
I just picked up the Black and have plugged it into my MacBook Pro. While I like the sound, it is ridiculously loud through all my headphones and IEMs. Does anyone else have this problem? It's too loud even at the lowest regular volume setting in Mac OS. Is there a way to use the Dragonfly's internal volume control on the Mac (or is this not the problem)?
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 1:11 PM Post #1,685 of 5,077
  I just picked up the Black and have plugged it into my MacBook Pro. While I like the sound, it is ridiculously loud through all my headphones and IEMs. Does anyone else have this problem? It's too loud even at the lowest regular volume setting in Mac OS.

 
Never had this issue with either black or red, on OSX El Capitan or MacOS Sierra Beta. Across two different Macbook Pro's (15" retina 2013 and 13" retina 2014). Also tried IEMs and full sized.
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 4:54 PM Post #1,686 of 5,077
   
yes Audioquest even says to 'burn it in' for 24 hrs:
 
http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Phase-Noise-Jitter-Report-0317-14.pdf
 
Is it better to leave DragonFly constantly plugged in, or should I unplug it when it’s not in use?

It is completely safe to leave DragonFly plugged in at all times. We hope that you will always want it connected to your music playback device!
While repeatedly plugging and unplugging DragonFly will not affect its lifespan or reliability,
all DACs measure and sound better after being left on for at least 24 hours.
For more information on how DACs are effected by a warm-up period, please see below.
http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Phase-Noise-Jitter-Report-0317-14.pdf
For the purposes of providing valid measurements, a DragonFly DAC was used on a Symetricon Phase Noise Test Device. 
The Symetricon is one of, if not the most, accurate pieces of test equipment. Tests were run at the following increments: • Cold/“Zero Minute” (as soon as the DAC was plugged in) • 15 minutes after plug-in • 1 hour after plug-in • 24 hours after plug-in Cold — At startup, we see at 1Hz, a dBc (decibels relative to the carrier signal) of -73. However, notice the spike from 6Hz to 11Hz. There is a significant rise in phase noise within this range. Also notice how ragged the response is from 1Hz to 100Hz. This volatility will have effects on the DAC chip’s ability to recreate an accurate waveform. Jitter is measured at 3.7pSeconds.
15 Minutes — Here we begin to see a slight drop in noise at 1Hz (-.8dBc), as well as a reduction of the cold-related spike (6Hz to 11Hz). Things appear as though they’re about to begin tracking nicely. Jitter is measured at 1.4pSeconds.
1 Hour — We begin to see the settling process occur. The measured performance takes a significant turn for the worse. At 1Hz, phase noise has risen by 11dBc. However, the good news is that the initial spike from 6 to 11Hz has not returned. But overall, we are seeing a much noisier signal. Additionally, notice that the response is more ragged than it was when tested in the 15-minute range. This will have a very negative impact on the DAC’s ability to output an accurate (and pleasant) musical signal. Jitter has risen significantly to 5.7pSeconds.
24 Hours — At this point and beyond, the DAC appears to have reached a stasis. Notice that the response is now very stable, that there is a smooth line from 1Hz all the way out to 1kHz. At its greatest point, the delta in phase noise has improved by 17.2dBc over the initial cold test. We can now begin to critically listen to this DAC, confident that our findings will be accurate and illuminating. Jitter is dropped and settled at an astonishingly low level of 0.85pSeconds. Audio-based jitter is most accurately measured from 1Hz to 100Hz range. This is where averaging cannot correct or hide errors as easily as it does at say 1KHz. Ironically, most published jitter measurements are given at this frequency range. How does a high level of phase noise affect our music? While it’s hard to draw a simple conclusion that will apply to all DACs, it’s absolutely clear that higher levels of phase noise create higher levels of jitter. And higher levels of jitter correlate to poor sound; the more jitter, the worse the sound. If you’re auditioning a new DAC – whether for personal purchase, store merchandise, or critical review – be patient and give that contestant a day to warm up, so that it can truly strut its stuff. 
 

 
So a little curious about the 24-hour burn in period. Does this need to be done all at once or continuously from the get go? Or does listening to it here and there for a total of 24 hrs of listening time will accomplish the same thing?
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 5:40 PM Post #1,687 of 5,077
  I just picked up the Black and have plugged it into my MacBook Pro. While I like the sound, it is ridiculously loud through all my headphones and IEMs. Does anyone else have this problem? It's too loud even at the lowest regular volume setting in Mac OS. Is there a way to use the Dragonfly's internal volume control on the Mac (or is this not the problem)?

niic, Are you using the MacBook's fine volume adjustment: Shift + alt (option) + F11/F12 volume keys?
 

 
Sep 8, 2016 at 6:13 PM Post #1,688 of 5,077
Never had this issue with either black or red, on OSX El Capitan or MacOS Sierra Beta. Across two different Macbook Pro's (15" retina 2013 and 13" retina 2014). Also tried IEMs and full sized.


Thanks for the reference! It's weird, because I would expect the DragonFly Black to approximate the volume controls on my Mac, but instead it feels like I can only switch from mute to full power in the space of just 1 press on volume up (even in Audirvana Plus).

Could it be that I am missing a setting on my MacBook Pro (late 2013, 13 inch retina running on El Capitan)?
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 7:22 PM Post #1,689 of 5,077
Thanks for the reference! It's weird, because I would expect the DragonFly Black to approximate the volume controls on my Mac, but instead it feels like I can only switch from mute to full power in the space of just 1 press on volume up (even in Audirvana Plus).

Could it be that I am missing a setting on my MacBook Pro (late 2013, 13 inch retina running on El Capitan)?

You might want to reach out to AudioQuest. It was plug and play for me, as it was designed to do.
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 7:23 PM Post #1,690 of 5,077
So after spending a few hours listening to the DFR and comparing it with the sound coming out of my iPhone (it's all I have to a/b it) I can safely say that the DFR is a significant upgrade from the iPhone itself in its own right. I can definitely see where a lot of people are coming from when they say things like the DFR is bright, has better refinement, looser bass, etc. The musical separation, clarity and cleanliness is definitely its strong point. Now whether I'd say the DFR is too bright, I don't think that's an accurate description of what's really going on here. To me it feels that the treble is simply better represented, much cleaner and clearer and is smoothed out for a very lushious feel and taste. I love how the DFR handles the highs. The only thing that has been bugging me is that the impact of the bass seems to be lessened... Not saying it's totally gone because that's not true. It's still there, but just doesn't have as much impact as it did before. The bass is good quality for sure, but I hope this is one of those things (impact/depth) that'll tighten up and become more prominent as the DFR burns in.

And I'm thinking the only way I can get my tight punchy bass fix is to just go ahead and buy the Black too and just switch out between the Red for whatever I'm in the mood for. Get the best of both worlds. =)


Don't have an iDevice that can use the DFR, but the bass impact on both my Galaxy TAB S2 and windows laptop is improved over the default from headphone out. The DFR + TH-X00 Purpleheart combo = insanely tight and hard hitting bass, absolutely whips my HT system into shame... because my subs are tiny 10"....sigh...
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 9:39 PM Post #1,691 of 5,077
Don't have an iDevice that can use the DFR, but the bass impact on both my Galaxy TAB S2 and windows laptop is improved over the default from headphone out. The DFR + TH-X00 Purpleheart combo = insanely tight and hard hitting bass, absolutely whips my HT system into shame... because my subs are tiny 10"....sigh...


Yea. Now that I'm listening to it more and more, I'm noticing that the DFR is getting more relaxed and showcasing deeper bass and crispier everything else. Guess this is it "warming up".
 
Sep 8, 2016 at 10:59 PM Post #1,692 of 5,077
Yea. Now that I'm listening to it more and more, I'm noticing that the DFR is getting more relaxed and showcasing deeper bass and crispier everything else. Guess this is it "warming up".


Right now you're listening "for" it -- conscientiously paying attention in the hopes of hearing any improvement in sound. It's totally natural with new gear.

The best is when you finally relax and listen "to" it -- just enjoying the music and no longer seeking out tracks just to hunt for soundstage/clarity/separation/etc.

It'll come!
 
Sep 9, 2016 at 12:25 AM Post #1,694 of 5,077
I've long since learned to stop paying attention to buzzwords in descriptions because I swear depending on who you talk to and what imperfection they were hoping to fix, burn-in or new cables or a better amp/DAC will ALWAYS fix it.Every single one will have someone saying it makes the bass more refined but also somehow more impactful,  the highs will be clearer but also less shrill, the soundstage is better and the imagining is more accurate, mids are usually more "lush", etc etc etc.

To my ears, yes, the DFR is basically a "cleaner" output. Maybe it IS a touch bright, but I have bassy headphones so it mixes well. It's a permanent fixture on my work laptop (tube amp at home).


I imagine that my 'imagining' will ALWAYS be accurate :D

If I wanted to be Mr Serious Audiophile, I could pick the DFB apart - the imaging, detail resolution and instrument separation aren't up to the standard of more expensive DACs I've owned - but for me it does precisely what I wanted : improves on my other sources for very little financial outlay. Most importantly, it lets me turn Mr Critical Listener off on many tracks and just enjoy the music - surely that's the reason most of us got into this obsession, er, hobby in the first place ? If the ZuperDAC or the ACME 5000 is better / cheaper / sexier, that's a GOOD thing - it means that manufacturers got the memo that we arent all prepared to hand over 500USD every time they want to slap a new acronym on their packaging.
 
Sep 9, 2016 at 12:26 AM Post #1,695 of 5,077
Hi Head Fiers

I have back read most of the replies on this thread but I am still on the fence on buying the black or red.

To give you the current source that I use to play music I have the iphone 6s plus, Ipad Air 2, DX90 and MSI Laptop. So far from the 4 sources I rank them from best to good DX90 > MSI Laptop > Ipad Air 2 and Iphone 6s plus.

I use the Sony MDR Z7 as my main headphones which is 70 ohms. When I use the ios out I barely hear any bass and some of the details are lost. I do not know if this is because the headphone needs amping of if is the quality of the dac.

My question for anyone who listened to both dx90 SQ and DFR DFB SQ will there be a huge SQ difference in DFR vs dx90? How about DFB vs dx90? I love using the dx90 dac/dap in my PC but there is lag if I use it as a dac.

I am still on the fence if the SQ would be better with dragonfly. Still having a debate whether to get the DFR/DFB now or save for a chord MOJO if the difference is not huge.



Just got the dragonfly red. 3 hours after testing the dragonfly dac using tidal and iphone music as source. I also used onkyo hd player to play my cd ripped files. Sony MDR Z7 as my headphones.

I tried it vs the dx90 dac and DFR is actually brighter. The bass on the dx90 somewhat overlaps with the mid. The DFR actually lifts the mid so I can now actually hear it better like a veil has been lifted. Other than that I did not hear any huge difference between the two in terms of SQ. They are both actually good.

Versus the computer realtek hd dac the bass would actually shake on the song I Ab at the same volume but noticed it was a bit distorted compared to the DFR.
 

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