[canali]

yes i hear you, esp given the majority of spotify members, from what I understand,
are NON paying members so are getting subpar quality and don't really care that  much about 'audiophile' level sound.
 
i was listening to spotify 'extreme' yesterday (i'm a paying member) with my nexus 5 phone and sony mdr 7550 iems.
Loved the sound...can't imagine how much better will be a UAPP app...or trying Alac or flac... and then to have a dragonfly or mojo hooked up as well....so if i'm enjoying it now, looking forward to enjoying it that much more once I step up the quality of source and equipment.
 
I'm in the middle of buying an ipod touch 6 gen...trying to determine which is best: 32 gb of 64 gb since I stream so much and only have about 500 itunes i'd swap over, using some iflac tunes feature for better  transfer rates.
would also be looking downloading more flac/alac quality files.
 
Qu ote:

My guess is the majority of smartphone and tablet users would never connect an external DAC to their devices. Just look at how few of them spend money on decent headphones. In New York City, where I live, 90% of the headphones I see when riding the subway or wandering the streets are either Apple earbuds/pods, Beats, Skullcandy, lower end Sonys, or Bose. The remaining 10% are the random earbuds/IEMS I can't identify and the occasional Sennheiser, B&W, B&O, MDR-V6/7506, and Audio-Technica. Recently I've been starting to spot V-MODA and Master & Dynamics. For B&W, B&O and M&D being sold in the Apple store helps.

How many external DACs have I have seen in my almost 4 years of living here?

Zero.

I saw a guy using a FiiO E6 with his iPhone once, but other than him I'm the only person I know who has strapped a DAC to his phone to go stomping around this city of 8-10 million.

It might not seem like it on Head-Fi, but audiophiles like us are a tiny community. There are probably more cat sitters than there are external DAC strappers in the world.

So to answer your question, Spotify doesn't need us.

 

[brent75]

Canali -- 32GB is way more than enough storage for 500 tunes. However, to quote Wayne Gretzky, I'm a believer that you should "skate to where the puck is going to be -- not where it has been."
 
In other words, what if you fall in love w/ owning FLAC files once you've downloaded a few albums, and find yourself getting more and more? What if you love your new set-up so much that you find yourself listening to music where streaming is not an option (and files have to be stored on device)? What if you go crazy and start getting into AIFFs? What if you think you'll only use your device for music, but find yourself wanting to add a few shows/movies/games for flights and things like that?
 
There really is no telling the future, and since it's only a $50 difference for the jump to 64GB, I'd recommend ponying up if it doesn't break your budget.
 
I personally just picked up the 128GB version this weekend. It's important to note -- you already "lose" chunk of it due to the apps/iOS/etc that already comes baked with it. With the songs I added (maybe 500 or so), I feel like I'm already down to 100GB or so...just going off memory. I can check tonight.
 
FYI -- I had previously used Onkyo HF Player (and still really like it), but now I'm trying iAudioGate. I think the interface is much slicker and better looking than Onkyo's. Will report back on sound once I've spent some more time with it.
 
Also, my Mojo just showed up today. I'm very familiar w/ the Red's sound as I've had it for 3 weeks...now I'm looking forward to finding out firsthand just how much of a difference I can hear between Mojo and Red.

 

[canali]

thanks Brent...i appreciate your imput.
looking forward to your thoughts on the mojo vs red comparison.
 
 
Quote:

  Canali -- 32GB is way more than enough storage for 500 tunes. However, to quote Wayne Gretzky, I'm a believer that you should "skate to where the puck is going to be -- not where it has been."
 
In other words, what if you fall in love w/ owning FLAC files once you've downloaded a few albums, and find yourself getting more and more? What if you love your new set-up so much that you find yourself listening to music where streaming is not an option (and files have to be stored on device)? What if you go crazy and start getting into AIFFs? What if you think you'll only use your device for music, but find yourself wanting to add a few shows/movies/games for flights and things like that?
 
There really is no telling the future, and since it's only a $50 difference for the jump to 64GB, I'd recommend ponying up if it doesn't break your budget.
 
I personally just picked up the 128GB version this weekend. It's important to note -- you already "lose" chunk of it due to the apps/iOS/etc that already comes baked with it. With the songs I added (maybe 500 or so), I feel like I'm already down to 100GB or so...just going off memory. I can check tonight.
 
FYI -- I had previously used Onkyo HF Player (and still really like it), but now I'm trying iAudioGate. I think the interface is much slicker and better looking than Onkyo's. Will report back on sound once I've spent some more time with it.
 
Also, my Mojo just showed up today. I'm very familiar w/ the Red's sound as I've had it for 3 weeks...now I'm looking forward to finding out firsthand just how much of a difference I can hear between Mojo and Red.

 

[jyang]

   
JYang have you come to any conclusion?
 
I'm looking for a small usb dac to use with a Gigabyte Brix mini-pc (running Linux). I have no real interest in using it with any smartphone or the like.
I haven't found yet any clear comparison between the DragonFly 1.2 and Black.
 
I'll probably be using it mostly with low impedance headphones such as Sennheiser PX100 or Radiopaq Jazz. Though I also own a pair of Sennheiser HD595 (older 120 ohm version) and I could be using those sometimes too or with desktop speakers.
Almost exclusively for listening to music.

Hi bgravato,
 
I haven't decided yet. I'm leaning toward the v1.2, but am waiting to see if more reviews come out comparing the Black to v1.2, while keeping an eye on v1.2 availability.
 
So I'm kind of still in the same boat as you -- really only have Darko's review. Though my use is slightly different; I'm not using headphones on PC (even though this is head-fi.org), but rather am using PC to amp to speakers.
 
As I mentioned to GerMan, there were so many detailed reviews that came out for the v1.2 (stereophile, soundandvision, absolutesound, audioholics), but we don't have much for Black and Red.
 
In one of your later posts you mentioned you might go ahead with the Black; did you do so, by any chance?

 

[bgravato]

 
In one of your later posts you mentioned you might go ahead with the Black; did you do so, by any chance?

 
Not yet and I haven't had the time to research more... It will depend on availability and price for each meanwhile... Hopefully more reviews will come out soon!

 

[brent75]

Ok. So I've had Red for about 3 weeks now (augmented by the Jitterbug). I'm definitely familiar with the sound and happy with it. But the entire time I've always been curious how it compares to Mojo. I've never been able to keep off the Mojo thread, and the fact that it's 1200+ pages now and that Mojo has so many glowing reviews on outside sites had me lusting for a difference. I knew I could not totally "settle" w/ the Red until I heard Mojo firsthand myself. So I sprung for it...got it yesterday...and here's my honest-to-goodness, completely transparent thought after a day of listening:
 
I personally can't tell any difference between Dragonfly Red and Mojo.
 
I can certainly tell they both improve the music on my laptop. But I can't really tell if one improves the music "better" than the other, and in fact honestly can't really tell them apart from each other in regards to how they improve the music. Both seem to give me better separation, better definition, better bass, etc.
 
Keep in mind I ONLY plan on using my dac/amp for my laptop, as I'm perfectly happy with my Sine + Cipher plugged straight into my iPod Touch for portable. So maybe Mojo really separates from the pack when you get into mobile use...I don't know (it seems most everyone on the thread has it strapped to a phone or DAP). I'm also willing to admit I probably don't have golden ears (or silver ears, or bronze, or anything) -- and perhaps other folks can tell a night and day difference between the two.
 
I plan on auditioning them a few more days since I have time before I'd have to return, but at this point I'd say I'm leaning towards returning the Mojo/keeping the Red and getting the $400 differential back. For me to fork over that difference, I REALLY wanted to hear a clear victory...but my ears just aren't finding it.
 
(on top of that, I'd forgotten how convenient the Red is in NEVER having to recharge or plug into a wall...I can tell that maintaining my charge and whatnot would get slightly annoying after time, especially if I'm ready to listen but had forgotten and let it drain)

 

[leaky74]

+1 The red as a DAC with my MacBook vs the Mojo; not much in it at all. Throw in a decent value to performance amp and you can get better performance and still spend less than you would on the Mojo in my opinion. The portability/mobile use is something I'll rarely exploit.

 

[Bianci1969]

My guess is the majority of smartphone and tablet users would never connect an external DAC to their devices. Just look at how few of them spend money on decent headphones. In New York City, where I live, 90% of the headphones I see when riding the subway or wandering the streets are either Apple earbuds/pods, Beats, Skullcandy, lower end Sonys, or Bose. The remaining 10% are the random earbuds/IEMS I can't identify and the occasional Sennheiser, B&W, B&O, MDR-V6/7506, and Audio-Technica. Recently I've been starting to spot V-MODA and Master & Dynamics. For B&W, B&O and M&D being sold in the Apple store helps.

How many external DACs have I have seen in my almost 4 years of living here?

Zero.

I saw a guy using a FiiO E6 with his iPhone once, but other than him I'm the only person I know who has strapped a DAC to his phone to go stomping around this city of 8-10 million.

It might not seem like it on Head-Fi, but audiophiles like us are a tiny community. There are probably more cat sitters than there are external DAC strappers in the world.

So to answer your question, Spotify doesn't need us.

You make interesting points.
 
On the other hand brands such as Beats, Bose and Sony, while not what you/we may consider "high-end" still cost a considerable amount of money. So, that's a reflection of value by the owner of those headphones. A person who decides to spend 500.00 on Beats or Bose has committed, to themselves at least, to treat music as a priority. Food for thought. 
 
Maybe the reason we're not seeing a lot of portable players on our commutes is the options aren't all that portable (by non-audiophile standards). When in Tokyo, traveling for work, I'll from time-to-time see someone with a headphone amp/DAC rubber band strapped to their phones. Over there that was cool for a while. But is that portable in a practical sense? Maybe the new DragonFly's will break the mold and be seen (by a broader non-audiophile audience) as a practical enough solution. Or maybe they won't. Only time will tell.
 
As a foot note to that – more times than not, when I'm on a plane I'll using my iPad to catch up on some movies, a DragonFly will elicit a tap on the shoulder followed by, "what's that?" and off I go ... 
 
Steve Silberman
AudioQuest
 
PS - When not listening through my Vandersteen Quattro's I use NightHawk's and AKG 701's around the home. When up in the air its The Bose QC in-ear. I went with the Bose for travel because the noise-canceling is excellent and they're comfortable enough for a trans-oceanic journey. additionally, great battery life. 

 

[canali]

 
 
agree per your points below:
bricks are not truly, comfortably portable (as in walking around portable),
nor are heavy daps...am sure as tech evolves we'll get there and portable audio will become truly... 'portable audio'
even my local headfi retailer who sells the primo stuff (ak 380, etc) feels 'bricks' are becoming passe.
can't wait for a few yrs when we'll have even better sound in a dragonfly sized device: unobtrusive because it's lightweight and small(ish).
 
then you also get the new HTC 10 (with it's own dac/amp) making it truly unique for a portable audiophile level smartphone.
(like the LG V10)...lots of competition out there now.
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-10-audio-testing-boomsound-evolved
 
Quote:

   When in Tokyo, traveling for work, I'll from time-to-time see someone with a headphone amp/DAC rubber band strapped to their phones. Over there that was cool for a while. But is that portable in a practical sense? Maybe the new DragonFly's will break the mold and be seen (by a broader non-audiophile audience) as a practical enough solution. Or maybe they won't. Only time will tell.
 
As a foot note to that – more times than not, when I'm on a plane I'll using my iPad to catch up on some movies, a DragonFly will elicit a tap on the shoulder followed by, "what's that?" and off I go ... 
 
Steve Silberman
AudioQuest
 
PS - When not listening through my Vandersteen Quattro's I use NightHawk's and AKG 701's around the home. When up in the air its The Bose QC in-ear. I went with the Bose for travel because the noise-canceling is excellent and they're comfortable enough for a trans-oceanic journey. additionally, great battery life. 

 

[SpiderNhan]

Ok. So I've had Red for about 3 weeks now (augmented by the Jitterbug). I'm definitely familiar with the sound and happy with it. But the entire time I've always been curious how it compares to Mojo. I've never been able to keep off the Mojo thread, and the fact that it's 1200+ pages now and that Mojo has so many glowing reviews on outside sites had me lusting for a difference. I knew I could not totally "settle" w/ the Red until I heard Mojo firsthand myself. So I sprung for it...got it yesterday...and here's my honest-to-goodness, completely transparent thought after a day of listening:

I personally can't tell any difference between Dragonfly Red and Mojo.

I can certainly tell they both improve the music on my laptop. But I can't really tell if one improves the music "better" than the other, and in fact honestly can't really tell them apart from each other in regards to how they improve the music. Both seem to give me better separation, better definition, better bass, etc.

Keep in mind I ONLY plan on using my dac/amp for my laptop, as I'm perfectly happy with my Sine + Cipher plugged straight into my iPod Touch for portable. So maybe Mojo really separates from the pack when you get into mobile use...I don't know (it seems most everyone on the thread has it strapped to a phone or DAP). I'm also willing to admit I probably don't have golden ears (or silver ears, or bronze, or anything) -- and perhaps other folks can tell a night and day difference between the two.

I plan on auditioning them a few more days since I have time before I'd have to return, but at this point I'd say I'm leaning towards returning the Mojo/keeping the Red and getting the $400 differential back. For me to fork over that difference, I REALLY wanted to hear a clear victory...but my ears just aren't finding it.

(on top of that, I'd forgotten how convenient the Red is in NEVER having to recharge or plug into a wall...I can tell that maintaining my charge and whatnot would get slightly annoying after time, especially if I'm ready to listen but had forgotten and let it drain)

+1 The red as a DAC with my MacBook vs the Mojo; not much in it at all. Throw in a decent value to performance amp and you can get better performance and still spend less than you would on the Mojo in my opinion. The portability/mobile use is something I'll rarely exploit.

You guys are saving me a lot of money.

 

[emil12]

Hello. Im kinda new to all hifi. I have bought a pair of ATH M50x which sound very good. Then i borrowed from my friend Dragonfly 1.2 and they sounded great compared to integrated audio card in my laptop. Now i have a choose to make. 
Should I buy an old 1.2 which I have tested and it sounds good with my headphones, also works with my Z3 compact, but of course drains battery. Or should I buy the new Black version? I am a bit afraid it wont sound as good as with 1.2 version, also I am worried about lower voltage compared to 1.2. 
The Red version would be the best, but it is out of my price range. 
Thanks for your answer.

 

[brent75]

  Hello. Im kinda new to all hifi. I have bought a pair of ATH M50x which sound very good. Then i borrowed from my friend Dragonfly 1.2 and they sounded great compared to integrated audio card in my laptop. Now i have a choose to make. 
Should I buy an old 1.2 which I have tested and it sounds good with my headphones, also works with my Z3 compact, but of course drains battery. Or should I buy the new Black version? I am a bit afraid it wont sound as good as with 1.2 version, also I am worried about lower voltage compared to 1.2. 
The Red version would be the best, but it is out of my price range. 
Thanks for your answer.

Are you able to buy from a place that allows a return? That's the best bet -- and if you are, then I would start with Black and see if you like it. If you do, you're done. If you don't, you can return and purchase the 1.2, which for you is a known quantity (and may not have as good of a return policy).

 

[SeeSax]

  so android smartphone streamers...I confirmed with UAPP tech that their app works with Tidal, but either Spotify nor Apple.
steve of audioquest says in a further email to me that it's an issue they're trying to find a rational solution for.
 
i understand there are licensing issues, but I can't understand why spotify wouldn't want to get into the game and possibly pull in more listeners if UAPP was compatible.
i mean it's a way to offer 'better sound' without having to up their bitrate transfers...or am i missing something?

 
Can you help me understand this a bit more? I am interested in using the Dragonfly Red with my Galaxy S7 and my primary source of music is Tidal. I have read that streaming is "not good" with the Dragonfly connected to an Android device, so are you suggesting I can somehow use the UAPP app to make this work better? I don't have a DAC with me right now, but I used Tidal and my earphones and cannot figure out any way to integrate UAPP (trial version) with Tidal. Can you please help me out, I would be GREATLY appreciative because I am loving the idea of this small combo instead of my Oppo HA-2. 
 
Thanks!
 
-Collin-

 

[waynes world]

   
Can you help me understand this a bit more? I am interested in using the Dragonfly Red with my Galaxy S7 and my primary source of music is Tidal. I have read that streaming is "not good" with the Dragonfly connected to an Android device, so are you suggesting I can somehow use the UAPP app to make this work better? I don't have a DAC with me right now, but I used Tidal and my earphones and cannot figure out any way to integrate UAPP (trial version) with Tidal. Can you please help me out, I would be GREATLY appreciative because I am loving the idea of this small combo instead of my Oppo HA-2. 
 
Thanks!
 
-Collin-

 
From the google play app page:
 

Android 5 users: although Android 5 has some support for USB DACs, it is limited to 16-bit and sample rates of 44100/48000Hz. For high quality playback, you still need this app to enjoy 24-bit music at any sample rate your DAC supports.

 
Tidal is one of the main source options in the UAPP app:
 

 

[canali]

   
Can you help me understand this a bit more? I am interested in using the Dragonfly Red with my Galaxy S7 and my primary source of music is Tidal. I have read that streaming is "not good" with the Dragonfly connected to an Android device, so are you suggesting I can somehow use the UAPP app to make this work better? I don't have a DAC with me right now, but I used Tidal and my earphones and cannot figure out any way to integrate UAPP (trial version) with Tidal. Can you please help me out, I would be GREATLY appreciative because I am loving the idea of this small combo instead of my Oppo HA-2. 
 
Thanks!
 
-Collin-

first i apologize for not being an informed as many are on here...and in my post i meant to say (now corrected)
that the UAPP app works only with Tidal currently (and not  with spotify or apple).
 
...i think both steve and others have explained it better than do I ...something about a licencing agreement
between Tidal and UAPP...wherein you access Tidal THRU the UAPP app.
Am i correct folks? can someone help expand and clarify this, please?