[Devodonaldson]

I did a double blind test at the weekend comparing the very first Dragonfly (V1.0) to the Dragonfly Red with the OPPO PM-3 and 320 kbps source. Couldn't tell a difference :tongue_smile:

Based on your emoji, I can't tell if this is a serious post. If you are in fact saying that you don't think there is much of a difference, perhaps it is due to the quality of music files you are playing. 320mbps mp3 are good for mp3 but when using high quality instruments, dac,headphones higher quality files are needed to hear finer details that are loss in the mp3 compression. If your emoji was your way of making the point that I just detailed.....well played

 

[joeexp]

  On Amazon.de and Amazon.com you will find several guys who found 1.2 better than Red and Black when used with a pc. I made the same experience...

Yeah  - and those reviews on amazon are always so reliable.  — ROFL

 

[bgravato]

I lot can be said about reviews reliability...
 
Anyway, I browsed amazon.com comments and I actually found only one comment explicitly saying the DF 1.2 was better than the DF Black.
On the opposite spectrum there's this review (which is featured on AQ website) saying the Black is better than 1.2 in every aspect:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/04/go-anywhere-with-audioquests-dragonfly-black/
 
From that article:

 Talking of which: the Black sounds noticeably better than the v1.2. When AudioQuest claim Black delivers “more music texture and detail” they are aren’t lying. The new model is more tonally satisfying too.

 
I think I've seen a comment on another thread saying the opposite...
 
Are this "experts" reviews more reliable? Some will say yes, while others might say they are ruled by economic interests.
I rather not start a never ending discussion about that... Every opinion is worth what it is... But the more we have the better ground we have to take out some conclusions...

 

[wondroushippo]

  I lot can be said about reviews reliability...
 
Anyway, I browsed amazon.com comments and I actually found only one comment explicitly saying the DF 1.2 was better than the DF Black.
On the opposite spectrum there's this review (which is featured on AQ website) saying the Black is better than 1.2 in every aspect:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/04/go-anywhere-with-audioquests-dragonfly-black/
 
I think I've seen a comment on another thread saying the opposite...
 
Are this "experts" reviews more reliable? Some will say yes, while others might say they are ruled by economic interests.
I rather not start a never ending discussion about that... Every opinion is worth what it is... But the more we have the better ground we have to take out some conclusions...

I take Darko's reviews with a heaping bowl of salt after seeing a review of a $380 USB cable that also is a site advertiser. Look, I'm a video game journalist, I know all about people being unnecessarily skeptical about reviewers. But certainly, heaping praise on a $380 USB cable when they're paying your site money – and you're the literal face of the site, so I doubt there's a huge firewall between you and advertising even if there is one  – people should be skeptical of what you write. Not to mention that impressions on audio are wildly subjective to boot, so...I dunno. Point is, I like the DAC on the DF Red, I just have qualms with the amp section and how volume works on mobile (too low, volume levels similar between built-in headphone output and DF Red. Makes using headphones that need the extra voltage tougher to do on mobile) and on PC (volume seems way too hot, IEMs and the Nighthawk are running at very low volume levels). 

 

[GerMan]

 
Yeah  - and those reviews on amazon are always so reliable.  — ROFL

 
Not less reliable than the kiddies here playing with iPhones and trying to hear diferences with their compressed music files  ROFL

 

[GerMan]

When reading all the postings here it seems that more than 95% of Dragondly Red or Black owners bought the device in order to use it with their smartphones. So they mostly don't own the 1.2 and therefore can't compare to the sound of the 1.2. 
 
I did make a direct comparison over several days intensive hearing and I can. Of course it only is my personal opinion.

 
Don't want to convince anyone.
 
So don't read that much or assume but  c o m p a r e.  Trust your ears, not the written word.   

 

[bgravato]

  I take Darko's reviews with a heaping bowl of salt after seeing a review of a $380 USB cable that also is a site advertiser. Look, I'm a video game journalist, I know all about people being unnecessarily skeptical about reviewers. But certainly, heaping praise on a $380 USB cable when they're paying your site money – and you're the literal face of the site, so I doubt there's a huge firewall between you and advertising even if there is one  – people should be skeptical of what you write. Not to mention that impressions on audio are wildly subjective to boot, so...I dunno. Point is, I like the DAC on the DF Red, I just have qualms with the amp section and how volume works on mobile (too low, volume levels similar between built-in headphone output and DF Red. Makes using headphones that need the extra voltage tougher to do on mobile) and on PC (volume seems way too hot, IEMs and the Nighthawk are running at very low volume levels). 

 
Thanks for the reply.
 
I have no intentions of using it with a mobile.
Do you have any idea how "hot" the Black is on a PC? It's running on lower voltage than the older DF - 1.2V vs 1.8V (and a lot less than the Red at 2.1V) - so one could expect the Black would be "less hot" than the older DF, but the voltage per se is far from being the only relevant fact here...
 
Anyway the DF 1.2 seems to be getting harder to find on online shops (well excluding ebay's and the likes) and usually more expensive than the Black, so soon the Black might be my only viable option... So I'm starting to think that's probably better to just go with that and stop over thinking it

 

[bgravato]

  When reading all the postings here it seems that more than 95% of Dragondly Red or Black owners bought the device in order to use it with their smartphones. So they mostly don't own the 1.2 and therefore can't compare to the sound of the 1.2. 
 
I did make a direct comparison over several days intensive hearing and I can. Of course it only is my personal opinion.

 
Don't want to convince anyone.
 
So don't read that much or assume but  c o m p a r e.  Trust your ears, not the written word.   

Thanks GerMan, that's what I was looking for... someone who had tried both 1.2 and Black on PC/laptop. Why didn't you say so in the first place?
I posted my previous comment before reading yours... Regarding the output volume, is the Black "louder" than the 1.2?
What noticeable differences did you find?
 
Unfortunately I won't find it anywhere locally to try both so I'll just have to jump on a leap of faith based on others opinions

 

[GerMan]

Well, read posting 138, there you'll find my statement and that of another user to 1.2 vs. Red.
 
Concerning Amazon (there you may occasionally find serious opinions

 
From amazon.de
 
Topic “Vergleich mit 1.2”
http://www.amazon.de/Audioquest-Dragonfly-RED-USB-Digital-Audio-Konverter-Wandler/dp/B01DFMV4NQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463561073&sr=8-1&keywords=dragonfly+red
 
On Amazon.com you find to Dragonfly Red
 
“What to say: I was astonished by the reviews and was awaiting a superb dac. Don't get me wrong, its a good dac, especially if you want to use it with your mobile phone. But on your pc, my main source of music, this dac is not as good at all. I am using now the old 1.2 version for over a year, and the red is not as good in any way. Its less loud, not as clear and warm as the 1.2. So why only 2 Stars. This DAC costs nearly as double as much as the old one, and for smartphone only i would give it maybe 4 stars. But on pc this dac is simply not as good as the old one.
Maybe someone can give me a small dac that really is superior to the old 1.2, this is definitively not! As sad as it is!“

 

[bgravato]

  Well, read posting 138, there you'll find my statement and that of another user to 1.2 vs. Red.
 
Concerning Amazon (there you may occasionally find serious opinions

 
From amazon.de
 
Topic “Vergleich mit 1.2”
http://www.amazon.de/Audioquest-Dragonfly-RED-USB-Digital-Audio-Konverter-Wandler/dp/B01DFMV4NQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463561073&sr=8-1&keywords=dragonfly+red
 
On Amazon.com you find to Dragonfly Red
 
“What to say: I was astonished by the reviews and was awaiting a superb dac. Don't get me wrong, its a good dac, especially if you want to use it with your mobile phone. But on your pc, my main source of music, this dac is not as good at all. I am using now the old 1.2 version for over a year, and the red is not as good in any way. Its less loud, not as clear and warm as the 1.2. So why only 2 Stars. This DAC costs nearly as double as much as the old one, and for smartphone only i would give it maybe 4 stars. But on pc this dac is simply not as good as the old one.
Maybe someone can give me a small dac that really is superior to the old 1.2, this is definitively not! As sad as it is!“

 
I tried to browse through all the thread but with so many posts is not easy...
I was searching mostly for comparisons between the DF Black and 1.2, so I probably overlooked/skipped the Red vs 1.2 comments.
 
Theoretically the Red should be better than the Black, so if 1.2 is better than Red then it should be better than the Black too, though theory (and logic) not always works as expected

 

[cribeiro]

1. Universal Android compatibility is impossible because Android hardware design and drivers etc. are the Wild West. Little standardization. It's really not AQ's fault.

My post was actually an argumentation against this point, but fine. You say "is impossible", but UAPP can do it. Welcome to the Wild West. I repeat: I do not buy it.

 

[simonecosta75]

hello mate ..
i have a simple quest
red dragonfly work good whit samsung s7 edge and Tidal ?

 

[0rangutan]

  hello mate ..
i have a simple quest
red dragonfly work good whit samsung s7 edge and Tidal ?

​See post 353

 

[Deni5]

  I take Darko's reviews with a heaping bowl of salt after seeing a review of a $380 USB cable that also is a site advertiser. Look, I'm a video game journalist, I know all about people being unnecessarily skeptical about reviewers. But certainly, heaping praise on a $380 USB cable when they're paying your site money – and you're the literal face of the site, so I doubt there's a huge firewall between you and advertising even if there is one  – people should be skeptical of what you write. Not to mention that impressions on audio are wildly subjective to boot, so...I dunno. Point is, I like the DAC on the DF Red, I just have qualms with the amp section and how volume works on mobile (too low, volume levels similar between built-in headphone output and DF Red. Makes using headphones that need the extra voltage tougher to do on mobile) and on PC (volume seems way too hot, IEMs and the Nighthawk are running at very low volume levels). 

 
Cables are always a delicate subject. But why would you take his reviews with a heaping bowl of salt because of that single review. He doesn't gain anything in promoting that and why would he put his reputation at stake promoting something that is not good at all. As far as I know he hasn't been sugarcoating anything. Of those dacs (that I own) that he describes in reviews I would say he is point on. I'd rather trust one that has tried hundreds of dacs to one that has tried three when wanting an opinion. And on a final note - yes that cable is really good, but then it's also mighty expensive (it would be good even if it was cheap).

 

[Deni5]

  Well, read posting 138, there you'll find my statement and that of another user to 1.2 vs. Red.
 
Concerning Amazon (there you may occasionally find serious opinions

 
From amazon.de
 
Topic “Vergleich mit 1.2”
http://www.amazon.de/Audioquest-Dragonfly-RED-USB-Digital-Audio-Konverter-Wandler/dp/B01DFMV4NQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463561073&sr=8-1&keywords=dragonfly+red
 
On Amazon.com you find to Dragonfly Red
 
“What to say: I was astonished by the reviews and was awaiting a superb dac. Don't get me wrong, its a good dac, especially if you want to use it with your mobile phone. But on your pc, my main source of music, this dac is not as good at all. I am using now the old 1.2 version for over a year, and the red is not as good in any way. Its less loud, not as clear and warm as the 1.2. So why only 2 Stars. This DAC costs nearly as double as much as the old one, and for smartphone only i would give it maybe 4 stars. But on pc this dac is simply not as good as the old one.
Maybe someone can give me a small dac that really is superior to the old 1.2, this is definitively not! As sad as it is!“

 
Post 138
"I'm quite disappointed. Lots of hype over months, the sound was promised to improve enormously over 1.2. I used to hear with dragonfly 1.2 and AQ jitter bug on PC and could not wait for the new Red to appear. Well the difference is, the Red has more power, is louder, at he same time a bit darker, more veiled. Everything seems to be out of balance, no details, no separation of instruments. The new dragonflies were invented to work with mobile phones imho, that's the hole thing. Users with pc were promised a sound improvement over 1.2 at the same time which I cannot confirm at all and is only a marketing statement. I'm using AKG K-702 headphones, quite a precise and resolving machine. Hearing flac files with JRiver on PC with WASAPI, all settings optimized. Music is no longer flowing somehow. Heard the ifi micro idsd which is a LARGE step forward. The red is a step back to me."
 
---
One reviewer on Amazon states that the Red is not as warm as 1.2. And you describe the Red as veiled, dark, no details, no separation. Both of you have totally different views on it but you agree upon that the Red is bad.
 
And what's up with all the reviewers stating that something has louder volume - that's not how you compare dac's/amps to one another. It's crucial to match levels!
 
Also the AKG K-702 are far from what I would call neutral, they are very bright and to shine they have to use a very powerful amp (1W+) - usb-powered not the best solution. And this is what you have based your opionion on - doesn't make that much sense.