[bgravato]

   
Hi GerMan,
 
Do you remember off the top of your head which forums had PC users that had the same experience (of the 1.2 being better optimized for PC) -- do you think you could point me in the right direction?
 
I'm buying 100% for a PC and trying to decide on Dragonfly Black or 1.2 but haven't found much info yet. I know of the forums audiokarma, audiocircle and diyaudio and there isn't much activity there yet on the Red and Black.
 
Many thanks,
JYang

 
JYang have you come to any conclusion?
 
I'm looking for a small usb dac to use with a Gigabyte Brix mini-pc (running Linux). I have no real interest in using it with any smartphone or the like.
I haven't found yet any clear comparison between the DragonFly 1.2 and Black.
 
I'll probably be using it mostly with low impedance headphones such as Sennheiser PX100 or Radiopaq Jazz. Though I also own a pair of Sennheiser HD595 (older 120 ohm version) and I could be using those sometimes too or with desktop speakers.
Almost exclusively for listening to music.

 

[GerMan]

On Amazon.de and Amazon.com you will find several guys who found 1.2 better than Red and Black when used with a pc. I made the same experience...

 

[canali]

well finally had a quick listen to day at my local retailer.
I have a 3 yr old lg nexus 5 (has latest os upgrades)...just tried them both with Spotify with my Sony xb90ex iems...no problems at all with spotify (no eq settings used)

But yup the perennial volume output issue persists for those of just using streaming primarily.
for the red i had my phone at nearly 90% for decent volume...and the black was at 60-70% for similar decent levels.

 
update... emailed steve on this (streaming issue on my android phone) and he kindly replied.
thought i'd share to help others....so that i don't come across as a total noob.
i'm learning this stuff, too....
and i've got to remember: it's silBerman, not silVerman.
 
red is me...black is steve's reply.
emboldened is by me to clarify.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Hello...  — 
 
This is Steve Silberman. Thanks for the email. 
 
guys..new dragonflys...still not great with streaming...any suggestions?
 
When you say streaming, can you clarify what you mean here. Streaming services, such as Tidal and Spotify et al? With apps such as these, on every OS other than Android we are not having issues, nor are we receiving complaints from consumers. Right now, its an Android specific issue. 
 
i admit i was about to plop down my $200 for a red yesterday at my local vendor, til i hooked it up to my LG G5 smartphone and started streaming....for the red i had to (like the 1.2v) crank it up to 90% for decent sound...and for the less demanding (new) black at least 60-70%.
..came away disappointed as I so wanted to buy one of them.
 
any resolution coming?

 
You don’t actually crank a device up. Its quite the opposite, you crank them down. All of these devices start out at unity gain. Unity Gain on the Red is 2.1v out and on Black its 1.2v out. Each of these devices has an attenuator, to attenuate the signal down, not up. The amount of attenuation required is going to be dependent on the source material, the heaphones (or speakers), and how loud someone likes to listen. “Cranking” a device up doesn’t require “driving it harder”. They're designed to run at unity gain. 
 
As for the Android issue we (and anyone else that adheres to the rules set forth by the USB organization) are not to blame here (sorry to cop-out). When a USB device enumerates the host asks a number of questions, such as …        

1. Maximum Vol, 
2. Minimum Vol, 
3. Current Vol, 
4. Volume steps

For some reason the Android OS gets confused in this process and assumes an incorrect maximum volume capability. We believe this is an Android defect because all DragonFly’s work with:

1. Windows — XP, 7, 8.1, and 10
2. Apple OS X and iOS
3. Linux ( I have two computers at home on Linux — one on Mint and one on Ubuntu — no issues with either’s ALSA

what still sucks is for those who primarily stream for our audio: these devices still require alot of juice.
Both Red and Black draw an average of around 24mA — Apple (and many Android manufacturers) set a device limit of 100mA. This is about as low as we can get.
if you’re using a UAPP or similar app for downloaded files, fine…and esp for apple…but for those of us mostly streaming…still things need to be worked out…or tweaked/created by vendors.
We are working directly with Tidal towards this exact type of a resolution — Tidal is just as frustrated as you and us over this — our devices aren’t the only ones in this predicament. As they are in the discovery phase they don’t have a solution or timetable yet. But, the key here (and you hit the nail on the head) is the app vendors can embed a workaround in their apps, just as UAPP has done. But keep in mind, UAPP is doing a host of other things that make their app sound spectacular. Its not just a solution appliance, its a performance appliance as well. 
Because both Red and Black are software updatable we will continue to look for a solution; once we better understand whether or not there is a way to manipulate Android into behaving properly (or not) 
We’re not taking this lightly. We understand that the Android community is huge and we want to provide a solution. Ideally, we would like to get Android to repair the issue in their stack, but we have to assume that they won’t and keep working towards a solution. 
Have a great weekend, 
Steve Silberman – VP Development 

 

[romainsecco]

What are the "other devices"?
I was considering buying a black Dragonfly but since I'm mostly using Tidal I think I'll reconsider it... Hope the DacMagic XS is working fine with streaming...

 

[Devodonaldson]

What are the "other devices"?
I was considering buying a black Dragonfly but since I'm mostly using Tidal I think I'll reconsider it... Hope the DacMagic XS is working fine with streaming...

Actually Tidal is the one service perfectly suited for dragonfly on Android,because UAPP has it's own drivers and through the app support streaming from Tidal. For this reason I purchased the app and switched from Google play music to Tidal. Dragonfly + Tidal through UAPP = AUDIO BLISS

 

[canali]

Actually Tidal is the one service perfectly suited for dragonfly on Android,because UAPP has it's own drivers and through the app support streaming from Tidal. For this reason I purchased the app and switched from Google play music to Tidal. Dragonfly + Tidal through UAPP = AUDIO BLISS

 
so Tidal does support UAPP, but spotify doesn't?
if so i might switch things around....

 

[Devodonaldson]

so Tidal does support UAPP, but spotify doesn't?
if so i might switch things around....

I think the more correct phrase is UAPP supports Tidal. As of right now, streaming from Tidal has same issues as every other app through Android drivers, however, sign in to Tidal THROUGH UAPP and now you have access to your albums,playlists, search function, with UAPP drivers and full dac compatibility

 

[romainsecco]

I think the more correct phrase is UAPP supports Tidal. As of right now, streaming from Tidal has same issues as every other app through Android drivers, however, sign in to Tidal THEOUGH UAPP and now you have access to your albums,playlists, search function, with UAPP drivers and full dac compatibility

What's UAPP? I tried on Google but nothing related to audio...
That's a good news though, thanks for the info!

 

[canali]

  What's UAPP? I tried on Google but nothing related to audio...
That's a good news though, thanks for the info!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en

 

[DucatiFever]

I did a double blind test at the weekend comparing the very first Dragonfly (V1.0) to the Dragonfly Red with the OPPO PM-3 and 320 kbps source. Couldn't tell a difference 

 

[SpiderNhan]

  I did a double blind test at the weekend comparing the very first Dragonfly (V1.0) to the Dragonfly Red with the OPPO PM-3 and 320 kbps source. Couldn't tell a difference 

 

[rolli1949]

According to Drako it can handle any Can !

 

[rolli1949]

The Black 1,2 volt t
the red 2.1 volt should be enough !

 

[canali]

I did a double blind test at the weekend comparing the very first Dragonfly (V1.0) to the Dragonfly Red with the OPPO PM-3 and 320 kbps source. Couldn't tell a difference :tongue_smile:

And that's fine... everyone's different.your you get to save $$$.
That said, however, issue could be your source too.

 

[rolli1949]

According to DARKO the Red uses 70 to 77% less power (RED) good news particular if you use it on your HP the Red sounds better (it costs double then the Black )and in this price class they a ahead of the competition at least for the moment.
Mojo is in another league which should be obvious when you consider the price ! However the Mojo is a brick and not everyone likes to carry two bricks ! Therefore the two Dragonfly are a very good compromise and in fact as Drako mention in hes review you don't need a DAP as the right phone and music files the sound is as good if not better ! Saves quiet a bit of money and the "BRICK" is much smaller.