[mks100]

   
Thanks for the feedback - seems to gel with a lot of the impressions given by those who have both. I'd like to hear both into a nice nearfield speaker rig, using the DAC section only but given that this is a headphone forum I'll leave it there.

DragonFly Red -> Vali 2 -> MB42x.  Impressions are the same in terms of the difference between the Red and the Black.  With the Vali 2 in the chain as a Preamp and/or Headphone Amp it basically defeats the Volume advantages of the Black IMO.  I can see where the Black would be a consideration for someone with higher impedance Headphones and the need for greater output.  I just feel the Red is more refined and aside from driving a set of HD600s from a Smart Phone, the Black falls short of the Red.  I have my Volume @ 90% with my HD600s through my Moto X Pure using USB Audio Player Pro.  Same Volume was achieved @ 70% with the Black.  Again, either the Black or the Red is a great choice.  To each their own.  There is a euphoric quality to the sound through both.  I sold my Geek Out V2 after hearing the Black & Red.  I'm sure the Mojo would be even better.  I just can't rationalize the upgrade.  Highly recommended.

 

[pkcpga]

Thanks.  Boy, you have had bad luck.   Most "problems" that I've read seem to be with the DFR not working with Some Android Phones, and with Not working properly with stock Android Apps.  I'd have guessed that most returns were because of the Android Issues and not an actual DFR defect.  But your 2 bad for 2 DFR's tested is pretty poor... 

My local dealer stated most common issues with the dfr are hiss in one ear or both ears or volume level in both ears not the same or one ear cuts out. They said there seems to be some quality control issues but I guess if your lucky and get a good one it's not bad for the price. No real issues with the black as of yet but sound quality is nothing special just louder and more bass than your phone DAC.

 

[Set845]

My local dealer stated most common issues with the dfr are hiss in one ear or both ears or volume level in both ears not the same or one ear cuts out. They said there seems to be some quality control issues but I guess if your lucky and get a good one it's not bad for the price. No real issues with the black as of yet but sound quality is nothing special just louder and more bass than your phone DAC.

Nothing special? What phone DAC would that be? My DFR blows away my iPhone 6 DAC. You're the only one in this thread that mentioned volume level differentials and cutting out in one ear. There must be a lot of lucky people in this forum.

 

[pkcpga]

Nothing special? What phone DAC would that be? My DFR blows away my iPhone 6 DAC. You're the only one in this thread that mentioned volume level differentials and cutting out in one ear. There must be a lot of lucky people in this forum.

Dfr is much better, stated dfb is not much better only louder and more bass, not very detailed the way the red is.

 

[Set845]

Dfr is much better, stated dfb is not much better only louder and more bass, not very detailed the way the red is.

Ok. I haven't heard the DFB so I can't comment but I am having a hard time believing that. Sorry, I'm not buying it. I'd think at $100 cheaper than the red, the DFB is a better deal. From what I've read about the black everywhere, it's a real upgrade to most phone DACs.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Ok. I haven't heard the DFB so I can't comment but I am having a hard time believing that. Sorry, I'm not buying it. I'd think at $100 cheaper than the red, the DFB is a better deal. From what I've read about the black everywhere, it's a real upgrade to most phone DACs.

It definitely is a big upgrade, it's essentially the old DF1.2 which was an awesome purchase. The Red is just an upgrade from that, and it's made more for "desktop" setups. 
 
I'm sure SOME phones have a comparable DAC but even then I'd say just giving it the boost is worth it.

 

[Set845]

It definitely is a big upgrade, it's essentially the old DF1.2 which was an awesome purchase. The Red is just an upgrade from that, and it's made more for "desktop" setups. 

I'm sure SOME phones have a comparable DAC but even then I'd say just giving it the boost is worth it.

Ok I had the 1.2. That's what I thought. I liked the 1.2 very much but I gave it to my brother when I bought the red. The red is defiantly an upgrade to the 1.2.

 

[brent75]

My local dealer stated most common issues with the dfr are hiss in one ear or both ears or volume level in both ears not the same or one ear cuts out. They said there seems to be some quality control issues but I guess if your lucky and get a good one it's not bad for the price. No real issues with the black as of yet but sound quality is nothing special just louder and more bass than your phone DAC.

I feel the bolded part is a completely misleading and inaccurate thing to say. You should have instead typed "if you're unlucky and get a bad one" rather than the other way around.
 
Getting one that works is not luck. It's expected, and pretty much what every indication suggests is it's the rule not the exception. Your post in this thread is the first time I've ever read anywhere about QC issues...whereas what you just typed is the equivalent of saying the DFR is the Fidelio X2 all over again.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

For anyone wondering, I paired the Dragonfly Black with Jitterbug and my K7xx, going from my laptop, sounds noticeably better than my Schiit Modi 2 and Magni 2 stack.  The Schiit Stack is not as smooth treble wise, and quite harsh with the K7xx... I am very impressed how well this Dragonfly combo pairs with K7xx, bass is hitting harder and everything...
 
I am still going back and forth if I want to keep the Jitterbug with it or not, I can notice some difference when it is not there... not sure if that difference is worth $50 yet though

 

[pkcpga]

I feel the bolded part is a completely misleading and inaccurate thing to say. You should have instead typed "if you're unlucky and get a bad one" rather than the other way around.

Getting one that works is not luck. It's expected, and pretty much what every indication suggests is it's the rule not the exception. Your post in this thread is the first time I've ever read anywhere about QC issues...whereas what you just typed is the equivalent of saying the DFR is the Fidelio X2 all over again.

Not for me two strikes and I'm done. But if you read the whole post back when the dfr came out there are several quality control issues posted but it's been a bit and maybe they've ironed them out. As with home speakers I'm strong believer in the amp is just as important as the speaker to get great sound, yes a $2,500 speaker sound fairly good with a $500 Yamaha or marantz amp but doesn't reach its potential until you spend a similar amount on its power, same follows for me with headphones. There some counterparts that sound a step above their price like the dfr but for me the mojo sounds as good as many double its price and about 95% as good as my naim which is 6 times its price. For under $200 nothing in my opinion can beat the dfr except it's own quality control from my experience. While under a grand I haven't found anything that touches the amazing DAC on the mojo, actually nothing I've heard that's portable has a better DAC. But the mojo does get hot if you try to use it while it's charging so it too is not perfect, but closest I've found in portable, so far, that works directly with a phone or AK. So I guess it all depends on at what level of sound quality are you happy with, people spend 10k on home systems and listen to them through Apple airplay instead if spending $500 on blue sound and getting title. The potential is there, how much of it are you happy with.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

Some of the hardest to drive headphones in recent memory are the Fostex T50rp Mark 3, and T20rp Mark 3... I have my Dragonfly Black/Jitterbug on 100 volume in windows and spotify, and its perfect. Literally perfect. i don't want a notch louder, and it sounds loads better than my schiit stack v2... smoother vocals... bass is going even deeper... wow... I am very very impressed... I thought I was going to have to buy Dragonfly Red to get the ampage power for these planar magnetics.
 
I think Dragonfly Black and Jitterbug are my end game honestly... K7xx and now my T20rp mark 3's... i need to turn volume downt o 90 actually its so loud... but im partying and drinking tonight and EDM needs 100 volume on these babies DDDD

 

[estreeter]

  Some of the hardest to drive headphones in recent memory are the Fostex T50rp Mark 3, and T20rp Mark 3... I have my Dragonfly Black/Jitterbug on 100 volume in windows and spotify, and its perfect. Literally perfect. i don't want a notch louder, and it sounds loads better than my schiit stack v2... smoother vocals... bass is going even deeper... wow... I am very very impressed... I thought I was going to have to buy Dragonfly Red to get the ampage power for these planar magnetics.
 
I think Dragonfly Black and Jitterbug are my end game honestly... K7xx and now my T20rp mark 3's... i need to turn volume downt o 90 actually its so loud... but im partying and drinking tonight and EDM needs 100 volume on these babies DDDD

 
Riiiight - as the lads over at Audiokarma like to say 'sometimes you need to just spend the money on beer !' - no denying that it works 

 
Guys, I've been  through this whole 'this thing doesnt sound any better than my Macbook Pro / smartphone / Fiio DAP' etc etc several times since I joined HF, and you'll find quite a few opinions to that effect in the Amazon comments for every budget (< $500 or thereabouts) DAC/amp out there. I really dont have a problem with it - I didnt buy the DFB to help AQ sell more to Head-Fiers or Amazonians. What I do question is the incredible thrash that accompanies so many of these products - everything from IEMs to desktop amps being sent back within 72 hours because they didnt blow the new owner's mind on first listen. Even if you're a complete burn-in skeptic, surely there's something to be said for persevering with new gear a little longer than that ? I might be an old coot, but the only issue I have with the DFB is the crazy gain at low volumes, and I've come to terms with that - not sure what else I could have replaced it with for 149AUD but I can see why DFR owners may have been keen to move on to the next toy on their list.
 
As for smartphone DACs being the equal of the latest Dragonfly's, most of us have seen the claim that if the iPhone was manufactured in the States, Apple would need to charge 15K for each new model. I'd like to think that somewhere in the middle of all that whizbang R&D they've thrown some money at the hardware and software that makes iTunes - and the iTunes Store - an attractive proposition for customers. The other factor is that IEM manufacturers must surely target the flagship smartphones with their designs - not much point using the latest Fiio or HiFiMan whizbang DAP as a baseline when Apple, Samsung and HTC outsell them by a gazillion to one. Even my ZTE phone sounds reasonably good with the CX5.0G - Sennheiser obviously wanted it to sound good straight from that headphone socket. Where that phone - and my tablet - really fall down is in the circuitry they've dedicated to amping the analog signal, and that's presumably the gap that AQ, Fiio and others are looking to fill with USB OTG DAC/amps. Every Android device I own prompts me when I try to take the volume past 85% (our buses must be the noisiest in the developed world..), and there's precious little headroom at that point anyway - if your portable device is powering your cans to your satisfaction, be happy, but the DFB makes a lot more sense to me in that environment than it does from my laptop - horses for courses.
 
Perhaps our chug-a-lug buddy has the right idea - less time agonising over gear and more time enjoying our music. Have a good one.
 
 
 

 

[Duncan]

I have been out of this thread for a while, but the comment that the mojo is only a little bigger made me chuckle, I know what I'd rather have in my pants pocket (not withstanding the fact that the DFs do not seemingly suffer from RFI / EMI)...

As much as I now, for out on the road use an LG G5 plus B&O module (which beats both the mojo and the DFR on the size stakes), the DFR has found residency on my Yoga 3 Pro, just wish it didn't default to 24bit, but guess in nitpicking there, as it sounds better to my ears than via OTG.

 

[JohannLiebert]

Tested with huawei and samsung tablets and I dont have volume control. I guess if you want to use these dragonflies without 3rd party app, apple is the best way to go.

 

[fjrabon]

To me the DFR strikes the right balance of performance gains and portability. As much as I loved the Mojo it was too bulky to be reality portable, but controls were too clunky to really be a desktop unit. I also use the DFR on my laptop a decent amount at work. Some days I don't feel like bringing in the m9XX to work, and the DFR is perfectly fine for at work use with my THX00. Endgame? I mean, depends on what you value. My m9XX-> TorpedoIII -> HD800 setup would be hard to give up. But I perfectly enjoy the DFR for what it is. Before the DFR I was a "never use portable amps" guy. The minor boost in SQ wasn't worth the hassle of a portable system. The DFR is little more than an extension of the cable so I finally found one that was worth it to me. It doesn't require charging of batteries, can fit in my hand while holding my phone. It's just right for what it is.