[SpiderNhan]

Hmmm. What cans are you using?

 

[Duncan]

LG Quadbeat 3 AKG

 

[newyorker4life]

All portable DACs support headphones, hence the headphone port you can plug your headphones into. As for the little buttons that control volume, skip songs and pause/play, those do not work with any external DAC. This isn't an Audioquest limitation. DACs are there strictly to pull the digital files off of the source, decode them, amplify them and send them off to your music listening device of choice. Some DACs have control built into the DAC itself, like the FiiO E18 or Chord Mojo, but they will still not function with your headphone's controls. You're complaining about a solution to problem that doesn't exist. It's like asking why the zipper on your pants won't tie your shoes.

There are two lightning cable DACs with controls that I know of. The Cipher cable that comes with the Sine or the EL-8 and the another one that is permanently attached to a pair of IEMs.

Thanks for the info. I do understand what a DAC does. Actually I am auditioning Sine + Cipher, and of course that does both have & allow the "little buttons" to control volume & track control. Everyone has their preferences, but for me truly portable means truly portable. Just my preference but being able to walk my dog, gym, shopping etc without removing and showing everyone around me in NYC my iPhone & some very expensive extra hardware every time I want to change volume or track forward, back, or repeat, For me, in my usage, in a city like NYC - that is not truly portable. I have certain issues and challenges that make gym extremely important. It may sound trite but being able to remotely switch track & adjust volume highly motivates me to work harder without interrupting the workout. Removing Iphone, dongles, extra cables from my pocket at gym or on subway commute just isn't practical or quite frankly, safe.

With all respect I'm not asking a zipper to tie my shoes, I'm just appreciating new info, learning that the same portability Sine + Cipher offers....is quite unique and not available in other external DACs. In auditioning / comparing Sine + Cipher vs. PM3 + DFR I'm finding Sine to be quite uncomfortable to wear at the moment. I'm too new in this forum for my profile to be displayed but I'm a home audiophile with klipsch & Yamaha reference rig (which I can control remotely via apps on mobile devices without touching source equipment - comes in very handy when cooking, cleaning house, etc) but headphones are new territory for me.

Good info which I really appreciate though. With the exception of Sine, external DAC will not be appropriate, for me, for truly portable use. Your feedback will help me try and see if I can get through "break-in" discomfort with Sine, because it does seem to offer better listening experience than PM3 alone. This was very helpful, thank you.

 

[SpiderNhan]

I think the removal of the 3.5mm jack on the iPhone 7 and future Android models will create a surge of DAC cables in the coming months. I'm expecting to see tons of Cipher-like devices on the market soon along with their accompanying headphones. A company might even bite the bullet and release a universal DAC cable that works with any headphone. *ahem* FiiO! *cough cough*

 

[CactusPete23]

LG Quadbeat 3 AKG

They are  not the most efficient IEM @ 105db/mw.  But I'm surprised that with those 24ohm earphones that you need to be 80% on UAPP and 80% on UAPP's Hardware volume...
 
Sorry if this is stupid question...  But have you moved the hardware volume setting while listening to see if volume goes up or down any?  I always seem to move them the wrong way first myself...     I usually set the UAPP Volume @ 50% , then adjust the hardware volume (under the ...   in upper right)  to get a "loud" volume.  Then I know that I can adjust up/down easily without going to the hardware volume ll the time...
 
I do find that many higher bitrate recordings, especially those with more headroom, can require a higher volume setting.
 
Anyway my experience

 

[Duncan]

No, I don't need 80% to play at reasonable volume, I like it quite loud, so I was being a little satirical, I really enjoy my on the go setup, and get into it (good for blocking out road noise etc)...

Where I was going was those that a few posts back were mentioning that 20% on the volume was too loud, at my volume, it'd blow out their eardrums.

 

[defbear]

Thanks for the info. I do understand what a DAC does. Actually I am auditioning Sine + Cipher, and of course that does both have & allow the "little buttons" to control volume & track control. Everyone has their preferences, but for me truly portable means truly portable. Just my preference but being able to walk my dog, gym, shopping etc without removing and showing everyone around me in NYC my iPhone & some very expensive extra hardware every time I want to change volume or track forward, back, or repeat, For me, in my usage, in a city like NYC - that is not truly portable. I have certain issues and challenges that make gym extremely important. It may sound trite but being able to remotely switch track & adjust volume highly motivates me to work harder without interrupting the workout. Removing Iphone, dongles, extra cables from my pocket at gym or on subway commute just isn't practical or quite frankly, safe.

With all respect I'm not asking a zipper to tie my shoes, I'm just appreciating new info, learning that the same portability Sine + Cipher offers....is quite unique and not available in other external DACs. In auditioning / comparing Sine + Cipher vs. PM3 + DFR I'm finding Sine to be quite uncomfortable to wear at the moment. I'm too new in this forum for my profile to be displayed but I'm a home audiophile with klipsch & Yamaha reference rig (which I can control remotely via apps on mobile devices without touching source equipment - comes in very handy when cooking, cleaning house, etc) but headphones are new territory for me.

Good info which I really appreciate though. With the exception of Sine, external DAC will not be appropriate, for me, for truly portable use. Your feedback will help me try and see if I can get through "break-in" discomfort with Sine, because it does seem to offer better listening experience than PM3 alone. This was very helpful, thank you.

Sometimes when I leave the house I decide not to be an Audiofile for an hour or so and leave all the DAC scat at home. My iPhone and a set of Bose QC noise canceling earphones and I'm set for a walk, the gym, whatever. I give myself permission to enjoy a simple, less sonic, setup. My hd800 and master 11 will be there as will my DFR and Mojo. It's not to criticize anyone. An iPhone with a set of Klipsch 10i's by themselves is still an awesome combonation. Some times I forget that I don't always need the hardware with me. Different setups for different occasions. Poolside? Yup the Mojo comes with me.

 

[newyorker4life]

Sometimes when I leave the house I decide not to be an Audiofile for an hour or so and leave all the DAC scat at home. My iPhone and a set of Bose QC noise canceling earphones and I'm set for a walk, the gym, whatever. I give myself permission to enjoy a simple, less sonic, setup. My hd800 and master 11 will be there as will my DFR and Mojo. It's not to criticize anyone. An iPhone with a set of Klipsch 10i's by themselves is still an awesome combonation. Some times I forget that I don't always need the hardware with me. Different setups for different occasions. Poolside? Yup the Mojo comes with me.

Well said. After realizing the limitations on DAC portability I have a pair of the new Bose BT soundsport IEMs en route.

I agree with others that pending iPhone 7, and the success of Sine + Cipher, we are going to see more lightning integrated DACs. If only the Sine itself weren't so uncomfortable ....

 

[brent75]

Well said. After realizing the limitations on DAC portability I have a pair of the new Bose BT soundsport IEMs en route.

I agree with others that pending iPhone 7, and the success of Sine + Cipher, we are going to see more lightning integrated DACs. If only the Sine itself weren't so uncomfortable ....

It's unfortunate you find Sine uncomfortable. How long are you giving it in your trial?
 
I returned Momentum 2.0 because I found it uncomfortable...so fast forward 2 headphones later, and I was a little nervous about Sine. It didn't scream "ultimate comfort" when I first wore it...but it truly has grown on my and now I find it's as comfortable as anything else. Both my ears and head are slightly larger than average (size 7 and 3/8 hat).

 

[tekwrx]

I got an email back from audioquest very quickly and after regular business hours which is impressive. Kudos there. However. Disappointed to confirm DFR does not support any headphone track & volume control. Now honestly - this info should be included in product description, which I suggested. Now I'm wondering what, if any other DACs support headphone volume & track control. For people who want a truly mobile solution....gym, dog walking, shopping,.... $200 and no headphone control (!) is a deal breaker. Will sadly return DFR. This information should be included PROMINENTLY in the product description - considering how it's marketed aggressively for portable use with mobile phones. What good is marketing a portable DAC for portable iOS friendly headphones.... without any darn headphone control support? Very disappointing, But very prompt reply from the company after hours - which is unusually prompt and appreciated. At least I know for sure now. I think I'm not the only customer who will have this concern.

I know it's not really an answer, but I use my smartwatch as a track and volume control while using a USB DAC. Works very well. I use a Sony smartwatch with Android Wear, but I'm sure an Apple watch would have the same function. If you feel that is too expensive for a remote control (or wouldn't get value out of the other functions it offers, I know FiiO makes an inexpensive bluetooth remote that should work just as well https://www.amazon.com/RM1-Multifunctional-Bluetooth-Remote-Controller/dp/B01F2I638C/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1466278487&sr=1-1&keywords=fiio+remote I'm sure there are other brands as well. Something to think about so you don't settle for an inferior DAC just because it has track and volume control

 

[defbear]

Apple deleting the 1/8 headphone jack is absolutely criminal.

 

[newyorker4life]

I know it's not really an answer, but I use my smartwatch as a track and volume control while using a USB DAC. Works very well. I use a Sony smartwatch with Android Wear, but I'm sure an Apple watch would have the same function. If you feel that is too expensive for a remote control (or wouldn't get value out of the other functions it offers, I know FiiO makes an inexpensive bluetooth remote that should work just as well https://www.amazon.com/RM1-Multifunctional-Bluetooth-Remote-Controller/dp/B01F2I638C/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1466278487&sr=1-1&keywords=fiio+remote I'm sure there are other brands as well. Something to think about so you don't settle for an inferior DAC just because it has track and volume control

I know it's not really an answer, but I use my smartwatch as a track and volume control while using a USB DAC. Works very well. I use a Sony smartwatch with Android Wear, but I'm sure an Apple watch would have the same function. If you feel that is too expensive for a remote control (or wouldn't get value out of the other functions it offers, I know FiiO makes an inexpensive bluetooth remote that should work just as well https://www.amazon.com/RM1-Multifunctional-Bluetooth-Remote-Controller/dp/B01F2I638C/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1466278487&sr=1-1&keywords=fiio+remote I'm sure there are other brands as well. Something to think about so you don't settle for an inferior DAC just because it has track and volume control

It's unfortunate you find Sine uncomfortable. How long are you giving it in your trial?

I returned Momentum 2.0 because I found it uncomfortable...so fast forward 2 headphones later, and I was a little nervous about Sine. It didn't scream "ultimate comfort" when I first wore it...but it truly has grown on my and now I find it's as comfortable as anything else. Both my ears and head are slightly larger than average (size 7 and 3/8 hat).

I know it's not really an answer, but I use my smartwatch as a track and volume control while using a USB DAC. Works very well. I use a Sony smartwatch with Android Wear, but I'm sure an Apple watch would have the same function. If you feel that is too expensive for a remote control (or wouldn't get value out of the other functions it offers, I know FiiO makes an inexpensive bluetooth remote that should work just as well https://www.amazon.com/RM1-Multifunctional-Bluetooth-Remote-Controller/dp/B01F2I638C/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1466278487&sr=1-1&keywords=fiio+remote I'm sure there are other brands as well. Something to think about so you don't settle for an inferior DAC just because it has track and volume control

Thanks for smartwatch suggestion. Unfortunately there is no Spotify Apple Watch app, yet. Grrrr. So far, I can't get the watch to control music playback the way I'd like to if I'm using Spotify. And Spotify is how I listen to music while on the go. I'm sure it's just a matter of time. Grrrr.

I'm about a month into this project, Started with a groupon for some $38 Sol Republic BT Tracks Air. Those I'm keeping with new perspective. Actually, I realize now they are the lightest and most comfy of all of them. The sound is "smaller", is the best way I can describe it, but very fast, bright, pleasing. Keyed in on comfort now that I've gotten the higher quality stuff. The Sol Republics retailed for $200 it was actually a Motorola product, but the company was acquired by Mortorola and rebranded the Tradks Air with SR logo. Cool looking .... and fun. They may be my best option for dog walking. I returned even cheaper pair of Bluedio Turbo T2 BT on-eat that were actually not bad sounding but torturous to wear. This was all to experiment without spending much and learn before I ordered pricey stuff.

3 days now into 14 day Apple return window for Sine. Third day today felt a bit it more comfortable. It's a very short timeframe there. I have three weeks more on the Oppo PM3s - they give 30 days from ship date. With the a/c on in my apartment it's harder to hear t.v. dialogue so I'm going to jack into my home stereo rig next and do some Nerflix with headphones.

What's most noticeable with Sine so far is how well powered it sounds with Cipher. It's not just marketing hype. That Cipher DAC may look small, but it doesn't feel small when you hold it in your hand and feel the weight of it. Honesty it feels more substantial to me than the DFR. Using iPhone with cipher I don't have volume even 1/3. With PM3 alone, no DAC, I have volume much higher. Pm3 with DFR, I can turn down volume, but not by a lot. Not by as much as I expected.

I have to say my ears were a bit sore and "fatigued" from the new stuff. When I got the Sol Republics back out and put them on today I realized just how good they are. And built in very intuitive headphone volume & track control in the headset itself. Flawless with Spotify. Once upon a time the SRs were only $100 less than refurb Oppo PM3. Man, that $38 was best deal this year on gear. I hope mine last and now I wish I bought two.

The dragonfly is Amazon so I think that's 30 days and I just got it yesterday. It absolutely makes a difference on the PM3s, but honestly the Apple CCK/DFR combo on an iPhone or iPad on the go, well for me, for portability, it is kind of frankensteinish.

If I'm home, I'm using my home rig for music. The DFR wouldn't be for home listening.

So I'll keep on....especially with Sine....to see if comfort improves. If the Sine were as comfy as PM3 this would be an easy choice.

 

[WutDaFunk]

  To those who have the black version.
 
Does it work well with android phones? I have the red version and the volume output is very low on my galaxy S5 and I have to turn it up to about 100% to get a decent listening volume. I know it's a common problem with the red version, so I'm wondering if the black version has the same problem. I only use Spotify Premium, so using an app like UAPP is not an option for me. If anyone has the dragonfly black and can test it with their android phone using Spotify or any other app without using UAPP it would be greatly appreciated!

Anyone else have a DFB with an android phone? I'm open to more input on this combination! 

 

[canali]

boy is the red a powerhouse for iems....from my laptop i have my sony 7550s plugged in 
..and i'm at a low 4-10% of max volume to keep it at an enjoyable sound limit...anything more than that
and it's nada, cannot do...however i have been listening for over 5 hrs today
but still...say if 'fresh' my ears could handle up to 10% max maybe....but i like to keep my hearing
for longterm.
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/basstheworldbyvideo/featured?&ab_channel=BassTheWorld.com
 
 

 

[rynogee]

  Forgot to mention in above, I am using Foobar2000, with WASAPI (push)..   Not sure if that matters, or if it is "best" foobar output setting for DFR.  But seems to work well for me.

Can you elaborate more on that plugin for foobar? I installed it, but not sure I've set it up right.
 
I might be dreaming (edit, definitely not dreaming, it seems much better), but it might have made a difference for me on PC (setting system level at 20% then adjusting volume via foobar seems to be better than it was before)
 
I'm on DFB though.
 
(I also switched from a USB 3.0 to a standard USB 2 port, although not sure if/why that would make a difference)