[canali]

i'm hoping to rationalize my purchases, and keep them all, using the following:
 
-keep dragonfly red (and soon to arrive jitterbud and dragontail) for easy to use, on the go access: it's lightweight, small, and wonderfullyunobstrusive....truly portable with my ipod....also default for being lazy at my laptop..fab and fast plugin.
great bang for the buck.
 
-keep mojo for when i want better sound and/or when i'm not walking around...taking things in on a bench outdoors or in a cafe...or at home.
 
-keep iFi micro iDSD as TT: laptop ->mercury cable->ipurifier 2->micro iDSDa->headphone tube amp.
**but this last one might be tweaked...perhaps a more powerful dac to better drive my newly tweaked mapletree ear+ hd amp
 
...see there...justifications easily arrived at 

 
 
and to be frank: i just have to try out the mojo, given all the hype around it, ie
rob watts' 'taps' magic, his sound / neural theories applied to chip technology etc...and if i don't like it I can resell it easy enough.
 
sorry to diverge to Chord related stuff:
I had also inquired to Edd @ Chord about  a number of things, one of them being the chip in the mojo and my concern that their tech would be 'dated' in a yr or so, given how fast digital/audio etc is moving forward.
his reply:
When it comes to the chip within Mojo, it simply won't date no where near like your conventional chip DAC will. Our FPGAs from over 10 years ago are still relevant and extremely competitive. With our DACs it's not the Chip but the software and we've coded them to be timeless.
 
guess that sort of makes sense given it's now a yr old but still more add ons for it coming out this yr.
 
below is a fascinatating interview with Chord Electronics founder John Franks, which I hope you'll all read and enjoy as much as I have...you'll find that moving digital to analog in a very natural sounding way and with real dimensions, is no easy feat....talks about the evolution of their products...they're quite an innovative and visionary company....just as Audioquest is with Gordon Rankin and Steve Silberman with their little but robust units, the loveable Dragonflys.
 
http://www.stereolife.eu/interviews/item/1165-john-franks-chord-electronics

 
excerpt:
The ultimate idea of the DAC is to reproduce the original waveform in all its complexity and perfection. The idea of the DAC is not to reproduce digital samples, which is that waveform. And if you can do that by taking as many samples as possible, faithfully reproducing all of the timing information which is locked in that signal, the strange thing about our brain is that it seems to be able to resolve information that technically our ears can't even hear. For instance, within our brain there is something like a line of neurons, that does timing between each ear. You can say it's a bit like a string of pearls. And when the timing from each of the ears hits it, it fires so that the brain knows where the sound is coming from. Apparently it's one of these fuzzy logic kind of things, but it's very accurate. And what it means is that if your brain isn't able to get the clear information of where the sound is coming from, it can't work out the positioning and timing information which makes the sound flat. People often say how wide is the soundstage but it has no depth because their DAC isn't measuring enough samples to give enough timing information to the brain.

 

[estreeter]

@canali, I had hoped that one of the big advantages of the FPGA DACs was that older models like the original Hugo would benefit from changes to the codebase implemented in later iterations (Hugo TT, Mojo etc), but after selling my Hugo last year I havent spent any time at Chord's site looking for updates.
 
Getting back to the DF Black, mine seems to have arrived from sunny (3 deg C ..) Melbourne in record time, and I cant wait to pick it up from the smiling Aust Post staff later this morning. New toy joy is always an endorphine hit, but esp when its accompanied by something that actually resembles the term 'express delivery' 

 

[estreeter]

  But I'm wondering how the DFR compares in terms of the AMP?
 
 
HA-2:
300 mW into 16 Ohm
220 mW into 32 Ohm
30 mW into 300 Ohm
 
SHIFT:
230 mW into 16 Ohm
136 mW into 32 Ohm
65 mW into 300 Ohm
 
 
The only spec I see for the DFR AMP is 2.1V.

 
 
I used to play those games, to the point where I had at least 3 of everything (from DAPs to large desktop lumps costing thousands of dollars). Now I just take everything on its own merits - spec sheets will only ever tell you so much, and even after 7 years on this board I still dont get why folk insist on trying to drive the most insensitive cans with tiny little portable amps. I enjoyed plugging the HD800 into the Auralic Taurus and knowing that it was performing as it should, but in all the time that I owned that combination I didnt even bother trying to plug those cans into any of my portable gear - YMMV.

 

[canali]

  @canali, I had hoped that one of the big advantages of the FPGA DACs was that older models like the original Hugo would benefit from changes to the codebase implemented in later iterations (Hugo TT, Mojo etc), but after selling my Hugo last year I havent spent any time at Chord's site looking for updates.
 
Getting back to the DF Black, mine seems to have arrived from sunny (3 deg C ..) Melbourne in record time, and I cant wait to pick it up from the smiling Aust Post staff later this morning. New toy joy is always an endorphine hit, but esp when its accompanied by something that actually resembles the term 'express delivery' 

i wish you'd write to Edd (marketing) and ask him this...and share it with us....esp as per what he shared with me.

 

[estreeter]

  i wish you'd write to Edd (marketing) and ask him this...and share it with us....esp as per what he shared with me.

 
If you want answers and you're not getting them from Chord, I can recommend John Darko at Digital Audio Review. While I dont necessarily agree with his TIDAL fascination, John is a straight shooter and he seems to have a conduit to many of the big players in the DAC market, esp John Franks and Co. While I wouldnt want to have to wade through the original Hugo thread here, it's one of the few examples I've seen in this industry of a designer willing to offer a brain dump on the design process that went into a product he is clearly extremely proud of. I lost count of the number of times Rob Watts felt the need to repeat himself in that thread - it seems that many of us had a very different idea of what an FPGA DAC was. Somewhat OTT, FPGA is one design that would struggle under the proposal that all DAC designs need to be submitted to MQA Inc to receive the 'magic' firmware which would make the device MQA Ready, but that's a topic for another time and place.

 

[Devodonaldson]

Yeah, I've set the hardware slider to max. Sounds good, but not loud enough. I always like to have a little headroom. My V10 in high impedance mode gets louder. Also tried the DFB with my Windows pc running Foobar2000 and the volume is about the same. Like I said for home listening it's not a deal breaker because I can use the line out to feed the E12. I may just end up exchanging for the red anyway.

Haven't heard the black, but sorry to hear it's not enough volume for you. I have the red, and I use it to drive my Fidelio L2, my V-moda M100, and my AKG Q701. Out of the three, the Qoo701 are by far the hardest to drive, but I can only put hardware volume at say 80% and software volume at about 70%. Any louder and it just hurts, so perhaps the red would serve you well. Not to mention, that with the red, you will also be ready once you decide to upgrade you cans to something a wee bit more power hungry

 

[TheEldestBoy]

   
 
I used to play those games, to the point where I had at least 3 of everything (from DAPs to large desktop lumps costing thousands of dollars). Now I just take everything on its own merits - spec sheets will only ever tell you so much, and even after 7 years on this board I still dont get why folk insist on trying to drive the most insensitive cans with tiny little portable amps. I enjoyed plugging the HD800 into the Auralic Taurus and knowing that it was performing as it should, but in all the time that I owned that combination I didnt even bother trying to plug those cans into any of my portable gear - YMMV.

 
I live in a small townhouse with my wife and 2 children.  It's tight and I don't have space for a dedicated headphone set-up (otherwise I'd probably get a Schiit stack).
So, I need to compromise and use a portable rig.  I need to be able to move from room to room (I never know which room is going to be available for me to have some undisturbed listening time; bedroom? living room? etc.). And of course it needs to be a quiet room as I'll be listening with the HD600's (open-back).
 
I'm looking for the best set-up for my iPhone + HD600's.
 
Dragonfly Red?
Peachtree SHIFT?
OPPO HA-2?
 
I've ruled-out the HA-2 now, as a number of posters are saying that the DFR sounds better (especially in the higher frequencies, which I'm a bit sensitive to).
 
Now I'm just trying to get some confirmation from Audioquest on exactly how powerful the AMP on the DFR is.  The SHIFT outputs 65mW into 300 Ohms, and I'm wondering if the DFR comes anywhere close to this.  Seeing as everyone says the 600's sound better when sufficiently amplified, I may opt for the SHIFT.
 
I would LOVE for anyone here who has the SHIFT to chime-in, but it doesn't seem like any active posters are using it.
 
Ideally though, the DFR would be enough, as I really do love the form factor and ease-of-use.
 
 
Some have suggested that I pair the DFR with a pair of HiFiMan 400s, which I am sort-of considering...
 
But I really want the HD600's!  
They have such a stellar reputation and are so iconic.  
Not to mention that I may not be able to buy another set of cans for years, so I'd like for my first serious set to be what many have refereed to as the ultimate set of reference/neutral headphones.  I think they'd provide a great point-of-reference for me going forward throughout the years as I acquire more headphones.
 
My portable rig would hopefully be enough to get me through the next few years, until I have the space (and more money) to buy something like a Schiit stack, which would then bring out even more in the HD600s.
 
 
I should mention that my budget for DAC/AMP hovers around the $300USD mark (otherwise I'd consider something like the MOJO, etc).

 

[JoeDoe]

I live in a small townhouse with my wife and 2 children.  It's tight and I don't have space for a dedicated headphone set-up (otherwise I'd probably get a Schiit stack).
So, I need to compromise and use a portable rig.  I need to be able to move from room to room (I never know which room is going to be available for me to have some undisturbed listening time; bedroom? living room? etc.). And of course it needs to be a quiet room as I'll be listening with the HD600's (open-back).

I'm looking for the best set-up for my iPhone + HD600's.

Dragonfly Red?
Peachtree SHIFT?
OPPO HA-2?

I've ruled-out the HA-2 now, as a number of posters are saying that the DFR sounds better (especially in the higher frequencies, which I'm a bit sensitive to).

Now I'm just trying to get some confirmation from Audioquest on exactly how powerful the AMP on the DFR is.  The SHIFT outputs 65mW into 300 Ohms, and I'm wondering if the DFR comes anywhere close to this.  Seeing as everyone says the 600's sound better when sufficiently amplified, I may opt for the SHIFT.

I would LOVE for anyone here who has the SHIFT to chime-in, but it doesn't seem like any active posters are using it.

Ideally though, the DFR would be enough, as I really do love the form factor and ease-of-use.


Some have suggested that I pair the DFR with a pair of HiFiMan 400s, which I am sort-of considering...

But I really want the HD600's!  
They have such a stellar reputation and are so iconic.  
Not to mention that I may not be able to buy another set of cans for years, so I'd like for my first serious set to be what many have refereed to as the ultimate set of reference/neutral headphones.  I think they'd provide a great point-of-reference for me going forward throughout the years as I acquire more headphones.

My portable rig would hopefully be enough to get me through the next few years, until I have the space (and more money) to buy something like a Schiit stack, which would then bring out even more in the HD600s.


I should mention that my budget for DAC/AMP hovers around the $300USD mark (otherwise I'd consider something like the MOJO, etc).

My recommendation would be to check out a pair of Grado ps500s straight from the iPhone. They are very easy to drive, sound great from the phone, and to these ears, offer a more life like sound.

 

[oceandream1]

Hello Everyone,
 
I recently purchased the dragonfly black. I have a problem with regards to using this device with tidal. When I select the dragonfly black in the tidal interface I get the following message "use cd quality (16 bit, 44.1k) in control panel > sound options of windows. When I click on properties of dragonfly black in the control panel > sound > advanced tab. The minimum sample rate that one can choose is (24 bit, 44.1k). Due to this reason I cannot play the dragonfly through tidal. As I sidenote I think optimal sound is achieved when the computer does not upsample or downsample the audiofile. So in abillity to choose cd quality for the dragonfly could be an issue as most people will be playing cd quality music through it. Can someone help or advise, how to resolve this. Thank you.
 
I also posted this issue to audioquest facebook page but no one cared to reply although they saw the message. 

 

[defguy]

   
I live in a small townhouse with my wife and 2 children.  It's tight and I don't have space for a dedicated headphone set-up (otherwise I'd probably get a Schiit stack).
So, I need to compromise and use a portable rig.  I need to be able to move from room to room (I never know which room is going to be available for me to have some undisturbed listening time; bedroom? living room? etc.). And of course it needs to be a quiet room as I'll be listening with the HD600's (open-back).
 
I'm looking for the best set-up for my iPhone + HD600's.
 
Dragonfly Red?
Peachtree SHIFT?
OPPO HA-2?
 
I've ruled-out the HA-2 now, as a number of posters are saying that the DFR sounds better (especially in the higher frequencies, which I'm a bit sensitive to).
 
Now I'm just trying to get some confirmation from Audioquest on exactly how powerful the AMP on the DFR is.  The SHIFT outputs 65mW into 300 Ohms, and I'm wondering if the DFR comes anywhere close to this.  Seeing as everyone says the 600's sound better when sufficiently amplified, I may opt for the SHIFT.
 
I would LOVE for anyone here who has the SHIFT to chime-in, but it doesn't seem like any active posters are using it.
 
Ideally though, the DFR would be enough, as I really do love the form factor and ease-of-use.
 
 
Some have suggested that I pair the DFR with a pair of HiFiMan 400s, which I am sort-of considering...
 
But I really want the HD600's!  
They have such a stellar reputation and are so iconic.  
Not to mention that I may not be able to buy another set of cans for years, so I'd like for my first serious set to be what many have refereed to as the ultimate set of reference/neutral headphones.  I think they'd provide a great point-of-reference for me going forward throughout the years as I acquire more headphones.
 
My portable rig would hopefully be enough to get me through the next few years, until I have the space (and more money) to buy something like a Schiit stack, which would then bring out even more in the HD600s.
 
 
I should mention that my budget for DAC/AMP hovers around the $300USD mark (otherwise I'd consider something like the MOJO, etc).
 
 
 
 
 
 

I own an early pair of HD 600's, which may be more difficult to drive than the current ones, and, while they sound pretty good with the DFR, I would say they would still be happy with more power. If you can, see if you can try a few other options that are slightly easier to drive like the Hifi Man's for example. The DFR sounds fanatasic with cans like the Audeze Sine, Hifi Man HE 400I and probably a bunch of other ones I haven't tried. My personal experience with the HD 600's has been that they don't really deliver the magic until driven by the right amp

 

[TheEldestBoy]

  I own an early pair of HD 600's, which may be more difficult to drive than the current ones, and, while they sound pretty good with the DFR, I would say they would still be happy with more power. If you can, see if you can try a few other options that are slightly easier to drive like the Hifi Man's for example. The DFR sounds fanatasic with cans like the Audeze Sine, Hifi Man HE 400I and probably a bunch of other ones I haven't tried. My personal experience with the HD 600's has been that they don't really deliver the magic until driven by the right amp

 
 
Thanks for the info.
 
Would an entry-level Schiit stack (the Magni + the Modi) be better than the DFR (I'm assuming they would)?

 

[TheEldestBoy]

My recommendation would be to check out a pair of Grado ps500s straight from the iPhone. They are very easy to drive, sound great from the phone, and to these ears, offer a more life like sound.

 
Thanks for the recommendation.  I'll keep the ps500s in mind.  If I end-up going with the Hifiman 400s' it'll be for the same reason (they can be driven straight from the iPhone, without an amp).

 

[waveSounds]

  Hello Everyone,
 
I recently purchased the dragonfly black. I have a problem with regards to using this device with tidal. When I select the dragonfly black in the tidal interface I get the following message "use cd quality (16 bit, 44.1k) in control panel > sound options of windows. When I click on properties of dragonfly black in the control panel > sound > advanced tab. The minimum sample rate that one can choose is (24 bit, 44.1k). Due to this reason I cannot play the dragonfly through tidal. As I sidenote I think optimal sound is achieved when the computer does not upsample or downsample the audiofile. So in abillity to choose cd quality for the dragonfly could be an issue as most people will be playing cd quality music through it. Can someone help or advise, how to resolve this. Thank you.
 
I also posted this issue to audioquest facebook page but no one cared to reply although they saw the message. 

 
You can get around this by disabling exclusive mode from one of the options for the DragonFly in Tidal's settings. I had this problem, too, and this is the only work around.
 

 

[canali]

so far i agree....while listening to my senn hd650 cans from laptop to DF red it's a bit 'meh-ish'
...havent' heard it hooked up to my incoming chord mojo...nor yet to my iFI micro iDSD or mapletree headamp.
...so don't know if its more a 650 sound sig...i mean they sound ok...but nothing that makes me really smile.
 
i'm going to use the DR Red for ipod and my easy to drive sony 7520s
on those i only need to get volume to 8-12% of max before it gets really loud
...vs the senn 650 which require more of a 25-35% for similar volumes.
 
Quote:

  I own an early pair of HD 600's, which may be more difficult to drive than the current ones, and, while they sound pretty good with the DFR, I would say they would still be happy with more power. If you can, see if you can try a few other options that are slightly easier to drive like the Hifi Man's for example. The DFR sounds fanatasic with cans like the Audeze Sine, Hifi Man HE 400I and probably a bunch of other ones I haven't tried. My personal experience with the HD 600's has been that they don't really deliver the magic until driven by the right amp

 

[TheEldestBoy]

 

 
 
More great info here; thanks Canali.
 
Could you please report back and let us know how the 650s sound with the Chord Mojo, the iFI micro iDSD or mapletree headamp.  If they cans still sound "meh" on all of those, then it's likely the signature and not the AMPs.
 
However, doesn't the fact that the DFR is able to drive the 650s to "really loud volumes" at only 25% - 35% volume mean that they are driving the cans well?