Sorry for being an irascible pedant. My coffee hadn't quite kicked in yet. :sheepishgrin:
Looks like a real bargain. At it's current price it could almost be an impulse purchase... although you say it's less bright than the DFR and a reviewer says it has less bass. Does that mean it's rolled off at both ends?
Doesn't look like it has its own thread yet... maybe you should start one?
And back on the DFR topic...
My USB-C to A converter has the annoying habit of disconnecting while in my pocket. I probably look like a total nutcase standing in the sidewalk swearing to myself.
Any recommendations for a USB-C to A adapter that fits the DFR a) snugly, and b) fully covers its plug?
Sorry for being an irascible pedant. My coffee hadn't quite kicked in yet. :sheepishgrin:
Looks like a real bargain. At it's current price it could almost be an impulse purchase... although you say it's less bright than the DFR and a reviewer says it has less bass. Does that mean it's rolled off at both ends?
Doesn't look like it has its own thread yet... maybe you should start one?
And back on the DFR topic...
My USB-C to A converter has the annoying habit of disconnecting while in my pocket. I probably look like a total nutcase standing in the sidewalk swearing to myself.
Any recommendations for a USB-C to A adapter that fits the DFR a) snugly, and b) fully covers its plug?
It's bass is solid - I'm not hearing what that other reviewer heard. I suppose that's possible. Does anyone know about the differences between the dac chips that were implemented in each device?
I have just bought iPhone MAX after upgrading from the 6. Very surprised and pleased with the audio output using the apple headphone adapter.
I had planned to use my LG V30 Quad DAC as a dedicated streaming DAP but the Max has exceeded its audio quality to my ears.
According to What HiFi review -
“The sound quality when listening via headphones has also improved. The general character is the same, but the XS Max is just a little clearer, more dynamic and punchier than the iPhone X’s already-accomplished sound.” https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/apple-iphone-xs-max
From what I have read so far, the iPhone DAC is now in the external headphone adapter. So how can a phone upgrade improve the audio quality when the DAC in the adapter is same old one ?
I tested the same headphone adapter with the iPad Air and although it has similar signature the audio is not as detailed and immersive. I haven’t had the chance to try out the headphone adapter with other previous models of the iPhone but I’m beginning to think something else within the phone such as the amp or other digital processing is affecting the quality of the audio output. This could explain the perceived audio improvement from iPhone Max even though its using same old headphone adapter as output. If the basic adapter can output better sound than I’m wondering how much better can the DF improve if any using the latest phones.
I would really like to hear from someone who has paired up the DF with newest XS/MAX IPhones.
Would be ideal if you have used the DF already on a previous iPhone model as I want to know of any audio quality benefits as a result of using newer iphone.
From what I have read so far, the iPhone DAC is now in the external headphone adapter. So how can a phone upgrade improve the audio quality when the DAC in the adapter is same old one ?
It can't IMHO. You prefer your new shiny phone so it sounds better, its a placebo. Its the same with food, if the same food is presented on two different plates, but one is presented better that one will taste better.
It can't IMHO. You prefer your new shiny phone so it sounds better, its a placebo. Its the same with food, if the same food is presented on two different plates, but one is presented better that one will taste better.
If both devices are sending a bitperfect signal to the DAC then there should be no difference. If one or both devices are doing any EQ, resampling or processing of any kind before passing a signal to the DAC then there may be a difference if the data is different.
If both devices are sending a bitperfect signal to the DAC then there should be no difference. If one or both devices are doing any EQ, resampling or processing of any kind before passing a signal to the DAC then there may be a difference if the data is different.
True I was assuming the same app was being used to play the music and the same settings. @archy121 make sure the new phone isn't applying some kind of audio "enhancement" or something.
Hello all, I apologize if this has already been answered, and I see it asked just above but... is anyone using the dragonfly red with the new iPhone XS Max? It’s upgrade time for me and I want to be able to plug the dragonfly straight in and stream tidal just as I am on my iPhone 7. I know Apple has a ton of detractors- I just like the ability to plug and play and not have to use a player like you would on some android phones. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
If both devices are sending a bitperfect signal to the DAC then there should be no difference. If one or both devices are doing any EQ, resampling or processing of any kind before passing a signal to the DAC then there may be a difference if the data is different.
Its not just about bit perfect alone. As we know the Source components can effect the sound from the DAC - just like with home hifi components. So it is possible that the iPhone XS is sending better signal to the DAC than previous models including my ipad Air.
@SteveOliver correct - i used Tidal HiFi tracks from apps on both phones.
@radiocalm I also have an XS and was considering getting a DF for Tidal MQA tracks. Than i found out the iPhone with DF still can't natively play MQA tracks from the Tidal app and that's disappointing.
I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the sound from the standard apple headphone adapter when listening to Tidal HiFi tracks and using Neutron Player for FLAC and DSD files. The iPhone XS even. competes very well with my LG V30 Quad DAC. I think i prefer its clearer sound signature.
Now I'm not so sure how much more improvements the DF can bring or if its going to be the case of serious diminishing returns.
I'm keen to hear from others how much improvement the DF red can bring over the iphone xs with apple adapter.
How have you found the sound with the apple adapter ?
I figured it still wouldn’t do mqa, I just would like to know that when I plug it in it will work. I’m fine with flac on tidal from my phone. My dragonfly is the main way I listen to music because I love being portable. I have a mojo that I hardly use because it so bulky to carry when on a walk. I have the Apple headphone adapter as well and it sounds pretty good. There’s a difference when using the dfr - but like anything in this hobby, it’s a small difference. I have some really good iems and I honestly just feel weird plugging a super expensive iem into the Apple headphone adapter. It just feels wrong, even though sound quality wise it’s not a gigantic leap forward with the dfr. The Apple adapter is surprisingly convincing. I’m a little nutty though, as you have to be to love this hobby and I can’t see myself plugging my empire ears legend x into anything less than a dfr. Just feels weird. I’m crazy, what can I say. But yes the Apple adapter sounds pretty darn good for 10 bucks.
Its not just about bit perfect alone. As we know the Source components can effect the sound from the DAC - just like with home hifi components. So it is possible that the iPhone XS is sending better signal to the DAC than previous models including my ipad Air.
@SteveOliver correct - i used Tidal HiFi tracks from apps on both phones.
@radiocalm I also have an XS and was considering getting a DF for Tidal MQA tracks. Than i found out the iPhone with DF still can't natively play MQA tracks from the Tidal app and that's disappointing.
I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the sound from the standard apple headphone adapter when listening to Tidal HiFi tracks and using Neutron Player for FLAC and DSD files. The iPhone XS even. competes very well with my LG V30 Quad DAC. I think i prefer its clearer sound signature.
Now I'm not so sure how much more improvements the DF can bring or if its going to be the case of serious diminishing returns.
I'm keen to hear from others how much improvement the DF red can bring over the iphone xs with apple adapter.
How have you found the sound with the apple adapter ?
I use both the Apple adapter DAC and the DFR. If you are talking of the law of diminishing returns, then I confirm that the Apple DAC adapter not only performs very well, but for 9$ you won’t find a better sounding unit even if you pay up to 10x the price. That said, the DFR is probably not that much better sounding, maybe has firmer sub bass and brighter/clearer upper treble, but the difference is negligible in my opinion. Yes the Apple dongle is that good sounding, equivalent to most Apple internal circuits (Macbook Pro, iPad Pro, iPhone 6S) and very close to the DFR. That said again, the DFR has a big advantage over the Apple adapter: it outputs at 2.1v instead of 0.95v and has the capacity to drive higher impedance and less efficient headphones. Therefore, if you use high efficient and lower impedance headphones, the Apple adapter will suffice and will provide great sound. That includes my Senn Momentum, HD25, Amperior, PX-100IIi and even my Senn/Massdrop HD58x in moderate listening. The DFR will start to shine with the HD58x but will really make a big difference with headphones such as my 300 ohms HD600 or HD6xx/650. The Apple adapter still will work with these, but the output will be limited and the sub bass capability will also be limited. But the DFR is priced at 200$, over 20x the price of the Apple Adapter. Yes the DFR also may be used with usb output of computers and provides 24bits/96k audio amd MQA. It all depends on your needs and your budget. Just don’t snob the Apple adapter because it’s worth 9$. It is a world class DAC/amp if your needs don’t exceed its output limitations
Its not just about bit perfect alone. As we know the Source components can effect the sound from the DAC - just like with home hifi components. So it is possible that the iPhone XS is sending better signal to the DAC than previous models including my ipad Air.
@SteveOliver correct - i used Tidal HiFi tracks from apps on both phones.
@radiocalm I also have an XS and was considering getting a DF for Tidal MQA tracks. Than i found out the iPhone with DF still can't natively play MQA tracks from the Tidal app and that's disappointing.
I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the sound from the standard apple headphone adapter when listening to Tidal HiFi tracks and using Neutron Player for FLAC and DSD files. The iPhone XS even. competes very well with my LG V30 Quad DAC. I think i prefer its clearer sound signature.
Now I'm not so sure how much more improvements the DF can bring or if its going to be the case of serious diminishing returns.
I'm keen to hear from others how much improvement the DF red can bring over the iphone xs with apple adapter.
How have you found the sound with the apple adapter ?
I use both the Apple adapter DAC and the DFR. If you are talking of the law of diminishing returns, then I confirm that the Apple DAC adapter not only performs very well, but for 9$ you won’t find a better sounding unit even if you pay up to 10x the price. That said, the DFR is probably not that much better sounding, maybe has firmer sub bass and brighter/clearer upper treble, but the difference is negligible in my opinion. Yes the Apple dongle is that good sounding, equivalent to most Apple internal circuits (Macbook Pro, iPad Pro, iPhone 6S) and very close to the DFR. That said again, the DFR has a big advantage over the Apple adapter: it outputs at 2.1v instead of 0.95v and has the capacity to drive higher impedance and less efficient headphones. Therefore, if you use high efficient and lower impedance headphones, the Apple adapter will suffice and will provide great sound. That includes my Senn Momentum, HD25, Amperior, PX-100IIi and even my Senn/Massdrop HD58x in moderate listening. The DFR will start to shine with the HD58x but will really make a big difference with headphones such as my 300 ohms HD600 or HD6xx/650. The Apple adapter still will work with these, but the output will be limited and the sub bass capability will also be limited. But the DFR is priced at 200$, over 20x the price of the Apple Adapter. Yes the DFR also may be used with usb output of computers and provides 24bits/96k audio amd MQA. It all depends on your needs and your budget. Just don’t snob the Apple adapter because it’s worth 9$. It is a world class DAC/amp if your needs don’t exceed its output limitations
..It all depends on your needs and your budget. Just don’t snob the Apple adapter because it’s worth 9$. It is a world class DAC/amp if your needs don’t exceed its output limitations..
Great post keeping reality in touch. And as I suspected, worth getting DFR if you have high impedance cans to drive.
@radiocalm i can understand what you mean as I feel the same. I wish they packaged the Apple
Packaged the headphone adapter a little better so that it doesn’t look so flimsy. Definitely not very durable. Wish they offered an upgrade product with a form factor like the one by Baseus that allows for simultaneous charging.
I’m curious to know what DAC they are using.
Great post keeping reality in touch. And as I suspected, worth getting DFR if you have high impedance cans to drive.
@radiocalm i can understand what you mean as I feel the same. I wish they packaged the Apple
Packaged the headphone adapter a little better so that it doesn’t look so flimsy. Definitely not very durable. Wish they offered an upgrade product with a form factor like the one by Baseus that allows for simultaneous charging.
I’m curious to know what DAC they are using.
I agree with you that the Apple lightning DAC/amp is flimsy. However I own four of them (I leave them on each of my headphones cable) and none of them has yet failed. At 9$ a piece, if the worse happens, it’s not a big problem to order or pick up from the Apple Store or Best Buy a couple of them... I would agree and I would be a buyer of a more rugged and better looking unit from Apple like the one shown in your last post if such unit would exist from Apple, with a lightning connector like the 9$ dongle. Maybe pushing the output to 1.2v or even 1.5v like the Macbook Pro outputs would be great in such a small form factor... I would pay a few dollars more for that, maybe even up to 50$.
So I can now confirm that the dragonfly red does indeed work, plug and play with the iPhone max. Also, I hope my previous post didn’t seem snotty in any way, that was not my intent. I completely agree that the apple dongle sounds incredible and is VERY close to the sound of the dfr. Imagine what apple could do if they decided they wanted to make a $500 dac/amp... they have so much money and copious resources. What they have done for 9 bucks is insane. I was more poking fun at myself for feeling like I need to plug certain headphones into certain more expensive devices. I’ve gone full on crazy!! As always thanks for the insight. Cheers!
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