[7onyMustDive]

you should NOT tick the MQA setting or else it will not process the MQA data. So just check exclusive but not the MQA option.

Oh wait really? I always through by checking disable software MQA decode, it triggers hardware MQA decode by the Dragonfly Red DAC?

I'm confused, can anyone clarify this?

 

[silmusic]

Oh wait really? I always through by checking disable software MQA decode, it triggers hardware MQA decode by the Dragonfly Red DAC?

I'm confused, can anyone clarify this?

Dragonfly is MQA renderer, not decoder:
http://www.audioquest.com/2017/05/mqa-for-dragonfly-is-here/

 

[7onyMustDive]

Dragonfly is MQA renderer, not decoder:
http://www.audioquest.com/2017/05/mqa-for-dragonfly-is-here/

Ahh! thanks guys! I unchecked the MQA, restarted my Tidal and now I'm finally getting the magenta purple colors!! woohoo!!

One more question. So the Dragonfly Red maxes out at 96KHz. Do software MQA decoded files that's rendered through the Dragonfly still max out at 96KHz or potentially go higher?

 

[Cheffy]

I've been enjoying the DFB for a week now and the results have been tremendous. It's my first dedicated DAC/amp and I didn't have any specific expectations coming into using it other than a general improvement in sound quality, and wow, does it deliver. Previously, I've noticed considerable sound quality differences in my devices without the DFB; my dell laptop from 2011 has noticeably duller sound than my new Lenonvo work laptop, and my Samsung S5 NEO sounds better than either of those. The motherboard I selected for my PC has a (supposedly) slightly better quality DAC than others, which factored into my selection, and probably sounds best of all. But the DFB takes it to an entirely different level. I listen exclusively using closed-back headphones.

Here is my opinion on the sound improvements over stock DACs in my electronic devices using the NAD VISO HP50 and Brainwavz HM5 headphones, listening to a mix of spotify streaming and MP3s and FLAC files in foobar 2000:

Much better sound separation, imaging, and space (i.e. soundstage). Instruments sound more physically distinct from one another and spatially separated. It's almost eerie how much space there is now.
Much better black noise i.e. silence between sounds. This probably contributes a great deal to the better sound separation and clarity. I find myself seeking out music with a lot of negative space to enjoy this.
Noticeably crisper treble and upper-mids. High-hat and female vocals sound incredible, but not fatiguing, and express no sibilance whatsoever.
Slightly deeper bass with better definition. Highs benefited more noticeably than lows.
Even lower quality streaming at 160 kbps benefited greatly from the DFB; 320 kbps and FLAC better still.
Overall sound is therefore much cleaner and more dynamic than before. Better attack, yet delicate sounds that were previously dull or washed out stand out well.

Music tended to sound slightly warm but that might be due to most of my listening coming from using my HP50 headphones, which are noted for being neutral bordering on warm. I think the DFB just enhanced what was already there.

In general, mids don't seem to benefit much from the DFB. The problem is that with the improvements in the highs and lows, in some songs the mids sound slightly dull by comparison. I found listening to busy sounding classical music a little on the dull side as a result compared with electronica, rock, and pop where this issue only presented on a minority of songs. I tried EQing the mids upwards to compensate - this helped a little, but doesn't improve the mid separation of course. This was the case for both my HP50s and HM5s (neutral, mids tend to sound a little "hollow" to me but are balanced with highs and lows with respect to volume). However, these are closed cans that are probably not ideal for classical music to begin with. That all said - even classical music certainly sounded much better with the DFB, with incredible separation on horns. It was mostly when the sound becomes congested that separation became more difficult, but that it likely a common issue.

Using android, UAPP and Hibymusic both work to pass audio through an OTH USB cable to my headphones and sound great (separately, I intensely dislike the interface for UAPP but quite like Hibymusic, FYI). However, I cannot get the DFB to natively work with android on my Galaxy S5 NEO. I plug it in, the unit goes magenta, it cuts off all sounds as though it redirects sound to the DFB, but nothing comes from my headphones. I've tried all the troubleshooting steps, including updating the DFB software and starting UAPP first and raising the hardware volume to full, but it doesn't carry over outside of UAPP. Disappointing, as I'd hoped to use the DFB portably. It might well be an issue with the kernal for my version of android 7.0.

Conclusions:

Overall the dragonfly black was a huge improvement in overall sound quality and a very worthwhile upgrade for $130 CAD. Lack of android support is disappointing, but this seems hit and miss by phone, and most of my intended use is from my laptop or desktop anyway so it's not a major issue for me.

 

[Cheffy]

So in light of my impressions of the DFB in my previous post above, and using easy to drive headphones like the NAD VISO HP50, Brainwavz HM5, and ATH M50s, would I benefit from "upgrading" to the DFR? Is it worth another $120 CAD for my setup? I'm thinking of ordering one from amazon anyway and just A/Bing them, but I'd prefer not to pay return shipping costs only to keep my DFB. I could save that money and perhaps save-up for a separate dedicated desktop unit for home use later on.

I've read most or all the reviews on both here and elsewhere, and there is a great deal of disagreement about the sound signature of the DFR and comparisons between the DFR and DFB. The only general conclusions I can seem to make out from reviews are that the DFR enhances highs more than the DFB and creates even better soundstage/separation, and it is better for driving higher impedance headphones.

Mixed opinions:

-Some consider the DFR red to be more neutral than the DFB, while others suggest it is even darker/warmer despite more enhanced highs.
-Others suggest the sound of the DFR is almost glassy and too sharp, while the DFB is more neutral/warm.
-Several suggest the DFB has more/better bass response, while others suggest that the bass of the DFR is more extended and much clearer.

I don't have the time or inclination to go back through all the posts I've read here to cite those that support one point or another; suffice it to say, there are large disagreements, but the general consensus is that the DFR is a better product overall. I think most disagreements and incongruities can be chalked up to differences in headphones, sources, and preference. Someone noted that the DFR doesn't colour much, but instead enhances what is being projected - i.e. if your source and phones tend to be bright/dark, the sound will be brighter/darker. That makes sense to me, though I'm sure the DFR adds its own flavour.

Volume issues - many people have incorrectly suggested that the DFB is "louder" than the DFR even on the PC (on smartphones this might be true). According to audioquest themselves, this perception is due to volume stepping. At lower volumes, the DFB is louder simply because the analogue volume steps are larger. The DFR has a more fined tuned digital volume tuner that has smaller steps but becomes much "louder" at the higher end of the range than the black.

 

[VRacer-111]

So in light of my impressions of the DFB in my previous post above, and using easy to drive headphones like the NAD VISO HP50, Brainwavz HM5, and ATH M50s, would I benefit from "upgrading" to the DFR? Is it worth another $120 CAD for my setup? I'm thinking of ordering one from amazon anyway and just A/Bing them, but I'd prefer not to pay return shipping costs only to keep my DFB. I could save that money and perhaps save-up for a separate dedicated desktop unit for home use later on.

I've read most or all the reviews on both here and elsewhere, and there is a great deal of disagreement about the sound signature of the DFR and comparisons between the DFR and DFB. The only general conclusions I can seem to make out from reviews are that the DFR enhances highs more than the DFB and creates even better soundstage/separation, and it is better for driving higher impedance headphones.

Mixed opinions:

-Some consider the DFR red to be more neutral than the DFB, while others suggest it is even darker/warmer despite more enhanced highs.
-Others suggest the sound of the DFR is almost glassy and too sharp, while the DFB is more neutral/warm.
-Several suggest the DFB has more/better bass response, while others suggest that the bass of the DFR is more extended and much clearer.

I don't have the time or inclination to go back through all the posts I've read here to cite those that support one point or another; suffice it to say, there are large disagreements, but the general consensus is that the DFR is a better product overall. I think most disagreements and incongruities can be chalked up to differences in headphones, sources, and preference. Someone noted that the DFR doesn't colour much, but instead enhances what is being projected - i.e. if your source and phones tend to be bright/dark, the sound will be brighter/darker. That makes sense to me, though I'm sure the DFR adds its own flavour.

Volume issues - many people have incorrectly suggested that the DFB is "louder" than the DFR even on the PC (on smartphones this might be true). According to audioquest themselves, this perception is due to volume stepping. At lower volumes, the DFB is louder simply because the analogue volume steps are larger. The DFR has a more fined tuned digital volume tuner that has smaller steps but becomes much "louder" at the higher end of the range than the black.

I got the DFB after having the DFR for a while, because I was curious about the DFB and it was ultimately going to be used in setup that wasn't for headphones. Short story, much prefer the DFR over DFB for every headphone I tried - DFB is too veiled and less detailed than the DFR, and also has less dynamics and speed. DFR is the top end dragonfly and pairs EXTREMELY well when used in line-out mode with warm leaning amp, like Gustard H10. DFB was a noticeable downgrade in audio quality from the DFR to me. Would have been okay if had never heard the DFR.

 

[Cheffy]

I got the DFB after having the DFR for a while, because I was curious about the DFB and it was ultimately going to be used in setup that wasn't for headphones. Short story, much prefer the DFR over DFB for every headphone I tried - DFB is too veiled and less detailed than the DFR, and also has less dynamics and speed. DFR is the top end dragonfly and pairs EXTREMELY well when used in line-out mode with warm leaning amp, like Gustard H10. DFB was a noticeable downgrade in audio quality from the DFR to me. Would have been okay if had never heard the DFR.

Thanks for the input, this is certainly helpful.

Would have been okay if had never heard the DFR

Hahaha, yeah, that's the kicker, right? I mean I'm pretty happy with the DFB, but paradoxically, the selective improvements in sound quality are making me more aware of deficiencies in the sound balance. Can of worms. So let's say I go for the DFR - then do I become aware of other short comings and think - "Maybe I need to go to the next step up like a mojo chord". I'm not poor (anymore!!), but I don't have a really big disposable income so the mojo is just not happening.

 

[bmcelvan]

Thanks for the input, this is certainly helpful.



Hahaha, yeah, that's the kicker, right? I mean I'm pretty happy with the DFB, but paradoxically, the selective improvements in sound quality are making me more aware of deficiencies in the sound balance. Can of worms. So let's say I go for the DFR - then do I become aware of other short comings and think - "Maybe I need to go to the next step up like a mojo chord". I'm not poor (anymore!!), but I don't have a really big disposable income so the mojo is just not happening.

Upgrading your headphones might be a better upgrade than the mojo at first...doing both would obviously be the best

I've tried the ATH-m50x on three different occasions now (I mean purchased and used for a few days and subsequently returned) and have fallen back to my MDR-V6s as I just hear so much more of the music with them. The m50x seem to hide so many of the frequencies for me...most notably on guitars and pianos...it's like they just fall way off into the background! Seeing the mojo is $500+ I think you can get better cans for a lot less than that!

I haven't heard the HP50s yet but have been wanting to for a while now.

Using an open back style of headphones might also reveal a lot more of those deficiencies in the soundstage you mentioned as well.

 

[VRacer-111]

For portable on-the-go sound, the DFR has good enough quality and a stellar tiny form factor - personally don't feel the need for anything better. For home use, it's not quite high enough in quality, but when paired with a stellar amp it works pretty well and has insanely great bass impact. No comparison between the DAC section of a DFR and a Gustard X20U DAC though; the DFR just doesn't have the detail and dynamic presentation of the X20U - nor would I expect it to with the X20U being a high end balanced DAC the size of a full-sized Blu-ray player.

 

[Cheffy]

Upgrading your headphones might be a better upgrade than the mojo at first...doing both would obviously be the best

I've tried the ATH-m50x on three different occasions now (I mean purchased and used for a few days and subsequently returned) and have fallen back to my MDR-V6s as I just hear so much more of the music with them. The m50x seem to hide so many of the frequencies for me...most notably on guitars and pianos...it's like they just fall way off into the background! Seeing the mojo is $500+ I think you can get better cans for a lot less than that!

I haven't heard the HP50s yet but have been wanting to for a while now.

Using an open back style of headphones might also reveal a lot more of those deficiencies in the soundstage you mentioned as well.

For sure the mojo is a step up beyond and probably better fitted to a more high end setup and I don't really intend to go there yet! I did specifically give the caveat that I am using closed-back phones and acknowledged that they might be contributing to the duller mids, but it's not as though close-cans can't produce amazing mids. Other than that, the main criticism of my headphone selection would probably be that they are already easily driven and probably wouldn't benefit much from an amp. However, the amping of the DFR is pretty low relatively speaking, and the main value is from the DAC. I appreciate the sentiment and absolutely no offence intended, but if your reference phone is the MDR-V6 I'm not sure you're in a position to critique my choice in headphones. The ($300) HP50s are my primary phone for listen to music, and while certainly not without their limits, they are broadly considered one of the best closed-back buys for sound under $500, so I don't think that's going to be an issue here. Even my Brainwavz HM5s are considered a better resolving phone than the MDR-V6. Anything more resolving than my HP50s might be underwhelmed by the DFR alone, and benefit from a more dedicated DAC/AMP setup or at least a separate amp with the DFR. I don't use my ATH-M50s much and while they are certainly coloured (and unreasonably criticised), they are an excellent entry-level audiophile phone with reasonable resolving capabilities that can definitely benefit from a DAC. There are at least a couple reviews of the DFR where people have specifically used the ATH-M50 (in addition to other phones) and found considerable improvement, particularly with respect to soundstage, tightening the bass control, emphasising the mids better, and offsetting some of the fatigue from the highs. The mojo would clearly be overkill here though!

I intend to get a nice set of open-backs one day (maybe the HD-600/650, HiFiman 400/560, or OPPO-PM2). Then maybe consider something like the mojo, though probably not with portability in mind. But between my current three phones, one of which is (HP50s) that goes head to head with the OPPO-PM3, I think I'm set for now. I just want to get the most out of them.

 

[bmcelvan]

For sure the mojo is a step up beyond and probably better fitted to a more high end setup and I don't really intend to go there yet! I did specifically give the caveat that I am using closed-back phones and acknowledged that they might be contributing to the duller mids, but it's not as though close-cans can't produce amazing mids. Other than that, the main criticism of my headphone selection would probably be that they are already easily driven and probably wouldn't benefit much from an amp. However, the amping of the DFR is pretty low relatively speaking, and the main value is from the DAC. I appreciate the sentiment and absolutely no offence intended, but if your reference phone is the MDR-V6 I'm not sure you're in a position to critique my choice in headphones. The ($300) HP50s are my primary phone for listen to music, and while certainly not without their limits, they are broadly considered one of the best closed-back buys for sound under $500, so I don't think that's going to be an issue here. Even my Brainwavz HM5s are considered a better resolving phone than the MDR-V6. Anything more resolving than my HP50s might be underwhelmed by the DFR alone, and benefit from a more dedicated DAC/AMP setup or at least a separate amp with the DFR. I don't use my ATH-M50s much and while they are certainly coloured (and unreasonably criticised), they are an excellent entry-level audiophile phone with reasonable resolving capabilities that can definitely benefit from a DAC. There are at least a couple reviews of the DFR where people have specifically used the ATH-M50 (in addition to other phones) and found considerable improvement, particularly with respect to soundstage, tightening the bass control, emphasising the mids better, and offsetting some of the fatigue from the highs. The mojo would clearly be overkill here though!

I intend to get a nice set of open-backs one day (maybe the HD-600/650, HiFiman 400/560, or OPPO-PM2). Then maybe consider something like the mojo, though probably not with portability in mind. But between my current three phones, one of which is (HP50s) that goes head to head with the OPPO-PM3, I think I'm set for now. I just want to get the most out of them.

No offense taken...I wasn't trying to state the mdr-v6 are the high quality reference headphone, simply that (to me) they put the m50x in the ground (even with the high treble boost issue). Although to your point, a much better DAC could only help them, probably a lot. My main point wasn't about bashing your headphones...I'm sorry if it came across that way...more about if your going to spend that much money on a DAC, maybe better HPs could be a next (potentially less expensive) step.

I didn't realize the HD50s cost that much, currently they are $179.99 on amazon, the same price I paid for my DT770s. I was just saying that I haven't been able to try them because they aren't sold locally in my area...but I really would like to try them.

To your last point...get the most out of them...I definitely think the DFR would help in that regard. To your mention of power, off my phone it just barely powered my DT770s (80) enough to be loud and would def need an amp...but off my PC it was fantastic!

 

[good sound]

For sure the mojo is a step up beyond and probably better fitted to a more high end setup and I don't really intend to go there yet! I did specifically give the caveat that I am using closed-back phones and acknowledged that they might be contributing to the duller mids, but it's not as though close-cans can't produce amazing mids. Other than that, the main criticism of my headphone selection would probably be that they are already easily driven and probably wouldn't benefit much from an amp. However, the amping of the DFR is pretty low relatively speaking, and the main value is from the DAC. I appreciate the sentiment and absolutely no offence intended, but if your reference phone is the MDR-V6 I'm not sure you're in a position to critique my choice in headphones. The ($300) HP50s are my primary phone for listen to music, and while certainly not without their limits, they are broadly considered one of the best closed-back buys for sound under $500, so I don't think that's going to be an issue here. Even my Brainwavz HM5s are considered a better resolving phone than the MDR-V6. Anything more resolving than my HP50s might be underwhelmed by the DFR alone, and benefit from a more dedicated DAC/AMP setup or at least a separate amp with the DFR. I don't use my ATH-M50s much and while they are certainly coloured (and unreasonably criticised), they are an excellent entry-level audiophile phone with reasonable resolving capabilities that can definitely benefit from a DAC. There are at least a couple reviews of the DFR where people have specifically used the ATH-M50 (in addition to other phones) and found considerable improvement, particularly with respect to soundstage, tightening the bass control, emphasising the mids better, and offsetting some of the fatigue from the highs. The mojo would clearly be overkill here though!

I intend to get a nice set of open-backs one day (maybe the HD-600/650, HiFiman 400/560, or OPPO-PM2). Then maybe consider something like the mojo, though probably not with portability in mind. But between my current three phones, one of which is (HP50s) that goes head to head with the OPPO-PM3, I think I'm set for now. I just want to get the most out of them.

I have owned both the NAD HP50's and the OPPO PM 3's at the same time. I enjoyed my time with the HP 50's, they are indeed one of the best values out there in closed back portable phones, no doubt, but to say they can go head to head with the PM 3's is in my opinion more than just a bit of a stretch. Don't get me wrong the HP 50's are fine headphones but the OPPO's are a clear step or two ahead in virtually every category as well they should be considering they are significantly more expensive than the NADs. This is why my PM 3's are my daily driver and the HP 50's are in the hands of a new owner.

Recently, however, I have had a couple of occasions to audition, at some length, the Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow. Basically twice the price of the PM 3's but unequivocally the best closed phone I have ever heard by a wide margin. The only real drawback of the Aeon's, other than their price, is that they are not really suited for on the go use. In any regard I have got the upgrade bug, bad, and don't really care how stupid I will look walking my dog with the Aeon's strapped to my noggin.

Oh, and just so I am not totally off topic, I used the PM 3's with a Dragonfly Red and a Motorola Moto G4 plus for sometime. Using an LG V20 now and the DFR is connected to my desktop PC.

 

[Cheffy]

No offense taken...I wasn't trying to state the mdr-v6 are the high quality reference headphone, simply that (to me) they put the m50x in the ground (even with the high treble boost issue). Although to your point, a much better DAC could only help them, probably a lot. My main point wasn't about bashing your headphones...I'm sorry if it came across that way...more about if your going to spend that much money on a DAC, maybe better HPs could be a next (potentially less expensive) step.

I didn't realize the HD50s cost that much, currently they are $179.99 on amazon, the same price I paid for my DT770s. I was just saying that I haven't been able to try them because they aren't sold locally in my area...but I really would like to try them.

To your last point...get the most out of them...I definitely think the DFR would help in that regard. To your mention of power, off my phone it just barely powered my DT770s (80) enough to be loud and would def need an amp...but off my PC it was fantastic!

Thanks for taking it in the intended spirit. I am a beginner audiophile at best and still have a lot to learn, so I hope i didn't come across dismissive. I appreciate all input.

That's a fantastic price for the HP50s - maybe that's a black friday special? They certainly have come down in price in Canada, now going for $250 CAD. I bought mine about a year ago, was $300 USD at the time. The biggest failing of the HP50s is the build quality and comfort, which is really hit and miss, depending on the individual. The sound is pretty amazing though.

I haven't heard the DT770s, but have heard many good things. Sounds like your power issue with the phone isn't a problem with the DFR but android. It caps the DFR volume down low, making it underwhelming. Have you tried using the UAPP app (USB Audio Player Pro) or Hibymusic? You can bypass that volume limit using these software, but they can't handle streaming (UAPP supports tidal but that's it). Using either one gives me way more volume on my phone than I could ever use really.

 

[Cheffy]

I have owned both the NAD HP50's and the OPPO PM 3's at the same time. I enjoyed my time with the HP 50's, they are indeed one of the best values out there in closed back portable phones, no doubt, but to say they can go head to head with the PM 3's is in my opinion more than just a bit of a stretch. Don't get me wrong the HP 50's are fine headphones but the OPPO's are a clear step or two ahead in virtually every category as well they should be considering they are significantly more expensive than the NADs. This is why my PM 3's are my daily driver and the HP 50's are in the hands of a new owner.

Recently, however, I have had a couple of occasions to audition, at some length, the Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow. Basically twice the price of the PM 3's but unequivocally the best closed phone I have ever heard by a wide margin. The only real drawback of the Aeon's, other than their price, is that they are not really suited for on the go use. In any regard I have got the upgrade bug, bad, and don't really care how stupid I will look walking my dog with the Aeon's strapped to my noggin.

Oh, and just so I am not totally off topic, I used the PM 3's with a Dragonfly Red and a Motorola Moto G4 plus for sometime. Using an LG V20 now and the DFR is connected to my desktop PC.

I haven't listened to the OPPO-PM3 myself so I was just going by what some reviewers have said (e.g. innerfidelity and others here on Head-fi) - some seemed to prefer the HP50s. I live in a small and somewhat remote city, so I have very limited opportunity to test headphones before buying them. But I don't doubt your impressions of the OPPO-PM3. I strongly considered them at the time I was buying the NAD HP50s and opted for the HP50s based on budget and supporting the "underdog" FWIW.

I would consider buying the PM3s now if I could sell my HP50s for a decent price. However, the retail price on the HP50s seems to be dropping meaning I won't get much, and the PM3s are probably only a minor upgrade to the HP50s, so I can't justify the cost at this time. At this point, I'll get more out of spending the money on a DAC like the DFR than a headphone upgrade. Maybe I'll give the Aeon's a try next year instead.

 

[caballerolance]

QUESTION:

I bought a dragon fly red and I am also thinking on buying a good pair of open or closed headphones under 400 dollars. I plan to use the headphones to listen to music and watch movies at home. I dont use heaphones outside home. I have very cheap headphones but i'd like a pair of good ones.

Could you give me some advice between five and ten headphones that fit well with the dragonfly red for pop music and drama movies on a tablet?

I wouldnt like to end up buying a pair of headphones that do not run well on dragon fly red. In other words, I began buying the dac, then the headphones.