[Hariz Nordin]

Anyone of u guys using the DFB with Motorola moto g5 plus?
Any issues?
Planning to get it tomorrow

 

[Amitl]

Hello everyone,
I have a noob question..
I never tried a dedicated dac like the Dragonfly before, I always listened to low impedance earphones/headphones (Sony mdr-ex650 , Vsonic vsd3s , JVC ha-fxt90 , Sennheiser Amperior), So my question is - will I hear any improvement in sound quality using the Dragonfly rather than plugging straight to my Sony Z3 compact phone?
Maybe it's worth mentioning I can't hear a difference in SQ comparing my Sony to my mom's Xiaomi.
Thanx!

 

[Donie Ray Samba-an]

Really enjoying the sound of my DFB with my NAD HP50s, keeps sounding better and better. I've found the mid-range response on a small number of songs a little flat and sometimes muddled though, especially for piano, but bass is reasonably tight and vocals are usually crystal clear. Anyone else notice this? Might be the songs themselves, but I think the DFB enhances this effect a little. So was thinking of going to the DFR instead for improved clarity, but the extra $100 could go a long ways to a new set of headphones! All my current phones are closed-back, so they might not be able to do the mids justice.

Question to all those who own both the DFB and DFR - why did you keep both, and for which genres of music do you prefer one over the other? Please note the headphones you use and your impression of the headphone sound signature as well as what the DF brings to the table.

That is an iOS11 problem. Not Adioquest's

 

[Cheffy]

Hello everyone,
I have a noob question..
I never tried a dedicated dac like the Dragonfly before, I always listened to low impedance earphones/headphones (Sony mdr-ex650 , Vsonic vsd3s , JVC ha-fxt90 , Sennheiser Amperior), So my question is - will I hear any improvement in sound quality using the Dragonfly rather than plugging straight to my Sony Z3 compact phone?
Maybe it's worth mentioning I can't hear a difference in SQ comparing my Sony to my mom's Xiaomi.
Thanx!

It always varies by person and phone, but there is little doubt that the DF generally improves sound quality for most devices that don't already have a higher-end DAC. Unless the Z3 has an especially good DAC - and I suspect it's pretty basic - using the DF should improve your listening experience regardless of how easy it is to drive your headphone.

 

[Cheffy]

That is an iOS11 problem. Not Adioquest's

I think you meant to reply to someone else.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

It always varies by person and phone, but there is little doubt that the DF generally improves sound quality for most devices that don't already have a higher-end DAC. Unless the Z3 has an especially good DAC - and I suspect it's pretty basic - using the DF should improve your listening experience regardless of how easy it is to drive your headphone.

The difference one hears is more than likely attributed to increased amplification and improved volume control and probably not so much the DAC as most modern DACs these days are nearly equal in performance (audibly speaking and proven in blind testing)... but of course some DACs are better than others but that is more on how well they are implemented in the audio circuit (the same is very true for op amps as well; if they are implemented well an older sub $1 op amp can easily match a $50+ variant in performance).

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Question to all those who own both the DFB and DFR - why did you keep both, and for which genres of music do you prefer one over the other? Please note the headphones you use and your impression of the headphone sound signature as well as what the DF brings to the table.

I ended up staying with the DFB, with the Jitterbug, as I prefer its lower volume control. The DFB is much easier to fine tune and adjust at lower volumes with my 32 ohm (95 dB/mW SPL) cans than on the Red which was much, much louder due to its higher amp output. I will also admit that I found an ever so slightly darker/softer (more mellow?) sound signature with the Black compared to the Red which I find improves the bass frequencies with my preferred music genre. But I wouldn't say it was a significant difference.

I have tested the DFB with a number of different headphones and I believe AudioQuest's recommendation that the DFB be used with low impedance cans up to 150 ohms (maybe 80 ohms would be better) and the DFR for the higher impedance cans over 150 ohms is generally spot on.

 

[Cheffy]

The difference one hears is more than likely attributed to increased amplification and improved volume control and probably not so much the DAC as most modern DACs these days are nearly equal in performance (audibly speaking and proven in blind testing)... but of course some DACs are better than others but that is more on how well they are implemented in the audio circuit (the same is very true for op amps as well; if they are implemented well an older sub $1 op amp can easily match a $50+ variant in performance).

Interesting info/take on the DAC, I've not head this before. Can you point me in the direction of some more info on this so I can better educate myself? I tend to the more skeptical side of things like claimed audio differences based on trivial components (e.g. cable materials) but I was under the impression that the DAC can be a pretty big component of difference.

I ended up staying with the DFB, with the Jitterbug, as I prefer its lower volume control. The DFB is much easier to fine tune and adjust at lower volumes with my 32 ohm (95 dB/mW SPL) cans than on the Red which was much, much louder due to its higher amp output. I will also admit that I found an ever so slightly darker/softer (more mellow?) sound signature with the Black compared to the Red which I find improves the bass frequencies with my preferred music genre. But I wouldn't say it was a significant difference.

I have tested the DFB with a number of different headphones and I believe AudioQuest's recommendation that the DFB be used with low impedance cans up to 150 ohms (maybe 80 ohms would be better) and the DFR for the higher impedance cans over 150 ohms is generally spot on.

Also interesting - I'd heard that the lower volume steps for the DFR were smaller than the DFB, allowing for better volume tuning.

I'm contemplating a pair of open back phones, and knowing these tend to be more neutral/lighter in body and benefit from amping, I'm considering that the DFR might be a better option than DFB (especially for the AKG-7xx).

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Interesting info/take on the DAC, I've not head this before. Can you point me in the direction of some more info on this so I can better educate myself? I tend to the more skeptical side of things like claimed audio differences based on trivial components (e.g. cable materials) but I was under the impression that the DAC can be a pretty big component of difference.

Here are a few interesting links you could start off with... read, ponder, and then draw your own conclusions:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html
http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/...n/2436-are-all-dacs-the-same-an-investigation
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/all-dacs-sound-the-same.560122/
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=612/best-dac/

Also interesting - I'd heard that the lower volume steps for the DFR were smaller than the DFB, allowing for better volume tuning.

Very good point, although the DFR does have more available volume steps it is harder to fine tune at lower volumes with sensitive lower impedance cans. Test it and you will clearly see what I mean. The DFB allows not only lower volume but increased ability to fine tune at the lowest volumes.

I'm contemplating a pair of open back phones, and knowing these tend to be more neutral/lighter in body and benefit from amping, I'm considering that the DFR might be a better option than DFB (especially for the AKG-7xx).

Although they are only 62 ohms people mistakenly confuse the AKG-K7XX's 105 dB/V sensitivity rating with dB/mW and therefore believe that they are very easy to drive headphones when in fact they have a ~93 dB/mW SPL rating which is considered a medium (nearing low) sensitivity rating. The DFR with it's 2.1 Vrms power output would provide the AKG K7XXs 2 x ~70 mW @ 62 ohms reaching a target loudness of 111 dB SPL (widely accepted standard for target loudness for dynamic headroom is 110 dB SPL). The DFB at 1.2 Vrms (independently tested at 1.3 Vrms) would provide 2 x ~25 mW reaching just over 106 dB SPL. It has been recommended for open headphones to properly capture very dynamic pieces of music to have 20-30 dB above 85 dB SPL available for headroom, which would bring us to 105-115 dB SPL. Depending on your music genre and listening levels the DFB may suffice.

AKG K7XX with DFR:

 

[WoodyLuvr]

AKG K7XX with DFB:

 

[Cheffy]

That is fantastic, thank you for these materials and info - learning a lot here!

 

[Cheffy]

Well now I'm wondering if I should be just using a portable amp and not worrying about the dragonfly. If there really is no real difference in "good" DACs, the difference in DF models must come down to the difference in amplification...

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Well now I'm wondering if I should be just using a portable amp and not worrying about the dragonfly. If there really is no real difference in "good" DACs, the difference in DF models must come down to the difference in amplification...

It all comes down to what matches well with your headphones; what you can personally hear; and what you are ultimately happy with. This can be a very expensive hobby especially if you fall into the good ole' rabbit hole. With that said, a very nice audiophile level setup can be had if wisely chosen and for a humble investment.

Adequately powered quality headphones is typically considered the most important part of the audio chain, as well as having decent music files (eg. "crap in = crap out")... amps, DACs, cables, etc. are icing on the cake. Remember that there is a point of diminishing returns... throwing any sum of money at any component in your system after reaching this point will only bring minuscule returns. You need to decide where that point is for you.

If it is about the music then maybe a small investment is all that you really need to round out your system and the money saved by not "going full monty" can then go to more tunes and other life needs.

 

[Cheffy]

It all comes down to what matches well with your headphones; what you can personally hear; and what you are ultimately happy with. This can be a very expensive hobby especially if you fall into the good ole' rabbit hole. With that said, a very nice audiophile level setup can be had if wisely chosen and for a humble investment.

Adequately powered quality headphones is typically considered the most important part of the audio chain, as well as having decent music files (eg. "crap in = crap out")... amps, DACs, cables, etc. are icing on the cake. Remember that there is a point of diminishing returns... throwing any sum of money at any component in your system after reaching this point will only bring minuscule returns. You need to decide where that point is for you.

If it is about the music then maybe a small investment is all that you really need to round out your system and the money saved by not "going full monty" can then go to more tunes and other life needs.

Expensive indeed!! I'm definitely trying to keep within a reasonable budget here, but it's kind of fun trying different things. I'm still contemplating ordering the DFR to A/B test with the AFB, but it might be that the sound I seek has more to do with the headphones. Unfortunately, I have no good local place to test headphones.

 

[Cheffy]

I just ordered a pair of Philips SHP9500s. I know they're easy to drive, but I'm sure an amp will help flesh them out. The DFB should be more than good enough and perhaps the DFR better yet, but I wonder if instead it might it makes sense to pick up an O2 amp and run my desktop via my DFB to the O2 and then headphones. If indeed the DAC makes no difference, then it's the voltage/amping that gives the DFR the alleged edge over the DFB in clarity. And an O2 amp would be versatile for future headphone purchases no doubt, perhaps more so than the DFR?

EDIT - Or, maybe just hold onto the DFB for now, then wait for massdrop to hopefully bring back the grace SDAC/O2 amp combo.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-sdac-dac-amp/talk

(BTW - it occurs to me that I seem to be in the early stages of a hifi addiction...)