[morgul]

I ordered the red dragonfly with a lighting camera adapter and hope I won't be disappointed.

 

[brent75]

I ordered the red dragonfly with a lighting camera adapter and hope I won't be disappointed.

What phone/computer/player are you going to be using it with? Based on this thread, that will have a big influence on your reactions.
 
You were the one comparing to HA-2, right? I came from HA-2 and actually prefer sound of Red to it. Plus it's less money, more portable, doesn't require a charge to work and is firmware upgradeable. Killer combo (if it checks the other boxes for you).

 

[Torq]

What phone/computer/player are you going to be using it with? Based on this thread, that will have a big influence on your reactions.

You were the one comparing to HA-2, right? I came from HA-2 and actually prefer sound of Red to it. Plus it's less money, more portable, doesn't require a charge to work and is firmware upgradeable. Killer combo (if it checks the other boxes for you).

Presumably an iPhone 5 or newer if they've ordered a lightning camera adapter (aka CCK).

I think the experience there will be wonderful ... it just works.

Can't say I'm surprised about the degree of variation in compatibility with Android devices ... the "flexibility" that comes with that platform seems to be more of a curse than a benefit (I say that as someone that, until recently, owned a mobile development studio and subsequently sold it).

 

[dacari]

Unless Audioquest manage to get access to the internal volume of Black/Red from Android main/master volume, I'm affraid we won't be full compatibility. Not really a bug because it seems it has been designed this way.
 
Rather difficult due android versions, brands and above all the poor Android volume control with only 15 steps but there is hope with MM with the volume slider that you can make fine adjustements.
 
Waiting for Audioquest answer after his return from Munich

 

[morgul]

  What phone/computer/player are you going to be using it with? Based on this thread, that will have a big influence on your reactions.
 
You were the one comparing to HA-2, right? I came from HA-2 and actually prefer sound of Red to it. Plus it's less money, more portable, doesn't require a charge to work and is firmware upgradeable. Killer combo (if it checks the other boxes for you).

I'm planning to use it with my iPhone 6s plus, windows 10 and windows 7 pc, and a macbook air. At first I was really thinking to get the HA-2, but Dragonfly Red is almost half the price, (but doesn't include cables). Only bad point is it uses the phone battery. It will be my first usb dac, only bought internal sound cards previously (been a while ...)

 

[brent75]

  I'm planning to use it with my iPhone 6s plus, windows 10 and windows 7 pc, and a macbook air. At first I was really thinking to get the HA-2, but Dragonfly Red is almost half the price, (but doesn't include cables). Only bad point is it uses the phone battery. It will be my first usb dac, only bought internal sound cards previously (been a while ...)

I think you'll be pleased. I had the HA-2 for a good stretch, and I only liked it on high-gain --- that sucked the phone battery aplenty.

 

[morgul]

  I think you'll be pleased. I had the HA-2 for a good stretch, and I only liked it on high-gain --- that sucked the phone battery aplenty.

I hope it will suit my sony mdr-1abt and my sennheiser momentum in ear.

 

[SpiderNhan]

From my experience with the Red the battery drain is around 4%-6% more per hour than usual. This is with Samsung devices, so YMMV.
 
Now onto volume and app issues!
 
TL;DR
-Android USB audio is flawed and varies from device to device
-Even when USB audio works, it might not be working right
-USB Audio Player Pro is the only app that peers into the soul of your DAC
-There may be hope in the near future
 
My experiences with USB DACs have strictly been with Samsung phones which began natively supporting USB audio routing with the Galaxy S3. Upon acquiring an S3 I gleefully purchased a V-MODA Vamp Verza and a Metallo case to experience the pleasures of external DAC/amp processing. While the Verza sounded amazing when connected to my PC and laptop, on my phone it was obvious that the sound quality didn't have much improvement. The Verza's amp was clearly superior to the phone's headphone out, but compared to my old cMoy, double-amped as we do, it was marginal and disappointing considering the 10x price difference.
 
Fast forward a year. Android 5.0 Lollipop launches and Samsung has no plans to bring it to the S3. Well we'll see about that! A few hours on XDA and rooting and custom recoveries and ROM flashing and I have the Lollipop-based CyanogenMod 12 up and running. It's faster, smoother, and more responsive than before. Problem is USB audio routing is gone. Poweramp, YouTube, Google Play. Nothing. Disappointed I scoured XDA and Head-Fi looking for a solution and stumbled upon USB Audio Player Pro. For $9 you got a clunky interface, no lockscreen widget, and an ugly homescreen widget. It didn't read tags, was hit or miss with album art, and was unintuitive as heck to navigate. I bought the app within 5 minutes of using it.
 
It wasn't until I heard the Vamp Verza through UAPP, that I heard the Vamp Verza. The difference was so dramatic that I emailed Extreamsd immediately and thanked them for helping to unleash the full potential of my DAC. They answered saying that even though Android is capable of rerouting USB audio, it will still process it first before sending out the signal. So instead of a pure digital transfer like this:
 
Audio file>DAC>Amp>Headphones
 
You get this:
 
Audio file>Android decoding>DAC>Amp>Headphones
 
So, even if the volume controls on the Dragonfly work perfectly with your phone via Spotify, Play Music, Rhapsody, etc. you still might be missing the true capabilities of your DAC. It's not an Audioquest thing. It's an Android thing. Things are looking up though. The new Poweramp Alpha build 703 has a USB audio implementation that doesn't sound bad, and Tidal already interfaces with UAPP. Hopefully others will follow suit. Let's not forget that the Dragonfly firmware is upgradable. It's only been out for a couple weeks and now the real-world tests are starting to roll in. Think about the updates and patches that Windows, Android, OSX and iOS devices need when new exploits and bugs aren't discovered until a massive launch. The Dragonfly is a small bug and the volume thing is a small bug. UAPP will make the bug sound its best.

 

[canali]

  From my experience with the Red the battery drain is around 4%-6% more per hour than usual. This is with Samsung devices, so YMMV.
 
Now onto volume and app issues!
 
TL;DR
-Android USB audio is flawed and varies from device to device
-Even when USB audio works, it might not be working right
-USB Audio Player Pro is the only app that peers into the soul of your DAC
-There may be hope in the near future
 
My experiences with USB DACs have strictly been with Samsung phones which began natively supporting USB audio routing with the Galaxy S3. Upon acquiring an S3 I gleefully purchased a V-MODA Vamp Verza and a Metallo case to experience the pleasures of external DAC/amp processing. While the Verza sounded amazing when connected to my PC and laptop, on my phone it was obvious that the sound quality didn't have much improvement. The Verza's amp was clearly superior to the phone's headphone out, but compared to my old cMoy, double-amped as we do, it was marginal and disappointing considering the 10x price difference.
 
Fast forward a year. Android 5.0 Lollipop launches and Samsung has no plans to bring it to the S3. Well we'll see about that! A few hours on XDA and rooting and custom recoveries and ROM flashing and I have the Lollipop-based CyanogenMod 12 up and running. It's faster, smoother, and more responsive than before. Problem is USB audio routing is gone. Poweramp, YouTube, Google Play. Nothing. Disappointed I scoured XDA and Head-Fi looking for a solution and stumbled upon USB Audio Player Pro. For $9 you got a clunky interface, no lockscreen widget, and an ugly homescreen widget. It didn't read tags, was hit or miss with album art, and was unintuitive as heck to navigate. I bought the app within 5 minutes of using it.
 
It wasn't until I heard the Vamp Verza through UAPP, that I heard the Vamp Verza. The difference was so dramatic that I emailed Extreamsd immediately and thanked them for helping to unleash the full potential of my DAC. They answered saying that even though Android is capable of rerouting USB audio, it will still process it first before sending out the signal. So instead of a pure digital transfer like this:
 
Audio file>DAC>Amp>Headphones
 
You get this:
 
Audio file>Android decoding>DAC>Amp>Headphones
 
So, even if the volume controls on the Dragonfly work perfectly with your phone via Spotify, Play Music, Rhapsody, etc. you still might be missing the true capabilities of your DAC. It's not an Audioquest thing. It's an Android thing. Things are looking up though. The new Poweramp Alpha build 703 has a USB audio implementation that doesn't sound bad, and Tidal already interfaces with UAPP. Hopefully others will follow suit. Let's not forget that the Dragonfly firmware is upgradable. It's only been out for a couple weeks and now the real-world tests are starting to roll in. Think about the updates and patches that Windows, Android, OSX and iOS devices need when new exploits and bugs aren't discovered until a massive launch. The Dragonfly is a small bug and the volume thing is a small bug. UAPP will make the bug sound its best.

 
 
drag that UAPP doesn't interface with spotify, which i use.
this from UAPP:

[color=rgb(68, 68, 68)] Thank you for contacting us. UAPP will only work with audio you can  select from within the app since it cannot act as generic driver[b]. We cannot get a license to stream Spotify, [/b]but we do support Tidal. Kind regards, Davy eXtream Software Development [color=rgb(0, 104, 207)][url=http://www.extreamsd.com/]http://www.extreamsd.com[/url][/color][/color]

 

[WhiteNoises]

Hello there my fellow enthusiasts,

I just made this account and this is my first post ever. Hopefully the first of many

I got the Black a week ago and my Red was delivered yesterday. So I'm comparing. My audio player is an iPad Air, known for its good DAC. My headphones are Sennheiser Momentum 2.0s. Audio source: Tidal HIFI

So far my impressions are: with the Black or Red, I don't hear much more (if any more) detail in the sound than coming from the iPad directly. With the Red there is a slightly wider soundstage compared to the iPad Air. The Black has more bass than the Red. Most bass? iPad, surprisingly. Red has more refined treble, more detailed there than the Black, but it also is quite sharp, so I actually find the Black more pleasant for longer listening.

All of this leaves me a bit disappointed after reading reviews from DAR_KO and artsexcellence.com. To be fair, artsexcellence used the Nighthawks to do the testing. It could be that the Momentum 2.0 simply can't take advantage of all the added sound refinement the Dragonflys have to offer.

Another thing that I thought about is perhaps the sound will change quite a bit after "burning in" these DACs. My iPad has been heavily used for playing audio since January 2014, whereas my Black has 6 days of use and Red has one (I also left it to play the new Radiohead album on repeat all night).

I've had moments when I thought "this Dragonfly (Red or Black) does sound really good" Then I played the same thing through the iPad's headphone jack, and... it sounded really good too

What are your thoughts? If these will keep performing they way they do, I will return them both. I have to notify the seller if I want to return the Black within a week now, but the Red I can trial for a full 60 days.

Especially now that Steve Silberman is here in the thread too, I'd like to know his thoughts on this.

Regards,
Matej

 

[west0ne]

  FWIW - I had a reply back from AQ support relating to the Red only working (100%) with UAPP on the Galaxy S6. 
 
AQ reply:
 
"These are issues that are not a fault of the DragonFly Red.  Unfortunately there are some limitations inherent with the Android OS and also what the phone manufacturer has enabled on the device.  We are aware currently though of the low volume that seems to be only with Samsung devices.  We are in contact with Samsung concerning this but we have to wait for them to provide an update to their devices to remedy the issue.  Hopefully Samsung will release a software update soon to remedy the low volume.  As for certain streaming services not all can output through the USB Host port.  Tidal as far as we have seen is the only streaming service to allow USB Host output but only through USB Audio Player Pro integration."
 
One unhappy AQ customer - In my humble opinion they did not make these limitations clear enough... I will be unlikely to purchase from them again and could not recommend to any Android users as compatibility appears to be a lottery unless you are happy with UAPP.

 
Are AQ trying to suggest that only Tidal will output to a USB DAC (highlighted in bold)? I have a Galaxy S7 as my daily phone and use my old Galaxy S5 as a media player both work quite happily with the Asus Xonar U3, Fiio Q1, Topping NX2 (not properly on S5), iBasso D14 and Schiit Modi 2 with Spotify, Google Play Music, local audio using native player, YouTube, basically all Android audio output. The U3 has no external volume controls but works fine with the Android audio controls, the other devices do have external volume controls but the Android internal volume control also affects the volume.
 
It's fair enough that UAPP offers much more control and refinement but to say that USB audio only works with Tidal Streaming simply isn't the case. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Samsung to update their devices just to accommodate AQ.

 

[GerMan]

@ WhiteNoises: DAR_KO,  DAR_KO, DAR_KO is all I read. Is he a hifi-good over there? Personally I trust MY OWN ears.
 
Quite disappointed about the Red.
 
For years, I heard with Dragonfly 1.2 and Jitterbug. Sound was much more transparent as with the Red which is louder, seems to have more "pressure" as it seems to be optimized for smartphones only. But everything is "too fat" somehow with listening via PC, transparency is away. For using wth PC it was a a step back against the "old" Dragonfly 1.2 for me. 
 
A good device sounds good from the first moment on and may get better after burning in. But never sounds bad in the first moment and really good later. Imho. So, if it sounds bad in the first moment, return it.   
 
To me, the forum shows that 90% use new dragonflies with smartphones which seem to be the target group for AQ now. In former times PC users were the target group. Times seem to have changed. So I never read a statement of AQ to people finding that new dragonlies were a step back with PC use.
 
Please  excuse my bad English, it's not my native language 

  

 

[brent75]

Hello there my fellow enthusiasts,

I just made this account and this is my first post ever. Hopefully the first of many

I got the Black a week ago and my Red was delivered yesterday. So I'm comparing. My audio player is an iPad Air, known for its good DAC. My headphones are Sennheiser Momentum 2.0s. Audio source: Tidal HIFI

So far my impressions are: with the Black or Red, I don't hear much more (if any more) detail in the sound than coming from the iPad directly. With the Red there is a slightly wider soundstage compared to the iPad Air. The Black has more bass than the Red. Most bass? iPad, surprisingly. Red has more refined treble, more detailed there than the Black, but it also is quite sharp, so I actually find the Black more pleasant for longer listening.

All of this leaves me a bit disappointed after reading reviews from DAR_KO and artsexcellence.com. To be fair, artsexcellence used the Nighthawks to do the testing. It could be that the Momentum 2.0 simply can't take advantage of all the added sound refinement the Dragonflys have to offer.

Another thing that I thought about is perhaps the sound will change quite a bit after "burning in" these DACs. My iPad has been heavily used for playing audio since January 2014, whereas my Black has 6 days of use and Red has one (I also left it to play the new Radiohead album on repeat all night).

I've had moments when I thought "this Dragonfly (Red or Black) does sound really good" Then I played the same thing through the iPad's headphone jack, and... it sounded really good too

What are your thoughts? If these will keep performing they way they do, I will return them both. I have to notify the seller if I want to return the Black within a week now, but the Red I can trial for a full 60 days.

Especially now that Steve Silberman is here in the thread too, I'd like to know his thoughts on this.

Regards,
Matej

 
Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but are iPad Airs really known for their good DACs? Not doubting you -- I just had no clue, and had pretty much gathered that people don't think very highly of Apple's other Dacs (e.g. laptops and iPhones)
 
At any rate, I use my Red predominantly with my laptop -- I've barely even used the iPhone/CCK yet. On my laptop (a Macbook Air), I can notice a huge difference between just using my headphone jack and playing from the native iTunes player vs using my Jitterbug/Red and playing through Roon. It's louder, fuller bass, snappier highs, better mids and more pronounced separation between instruments.
 
I'd be curious to hear Black in comparison. My headphones are already pretty efficient (Hifiman HE400s) -- but I opted for Red in case I ever wanted a thistier headphone and didn't feel like the price difference was a huge deal. The Momentum 2.0 is pretty efficient too, and I'm admittedly not familiar with Tidal -- I really don't stream that much.
 
What types/genres of music are you listening to?

 

[brent75]

  @ WhiteNoises: DAR_KO,  DAR_KO, DAR_KO is all I read. Is he a hifi-good over there? Personally I trust MY OWN ears.
 
Quite disappointed about the Red.
 
For years, I heard with Dragonfly 1.2 and Jitterbug. Sound was much more transparent as with the Red which is louder, seems to have more "pressure" as it seems to be optimized for smartphones only. But everything is "too fat" somehow with listening via PC, transparency is away. For using wth PC it was a a step back against the "old" Dragonfly 1.2 for me. 
 
A good device sounds good from the first moment on and may get better after burning in. But never sounds bad in the first moment and really good later. Imho. So, if it sounds bad in the first moment, return it.   
 
To me, the forum shows that 90% use new dragonflies with smartphones which seem to be the target group for AQ now. In former times PC users were the target group. Times seem to have changed. So I never read a statement of AQ to people finding that new dragonlies were a step back with PC use.
 
Please  excuse my bad English, it's not my native language 

  

No worries on the language -- you're coming through just fine. I can't speak for everyone else, but I certainly didn't read Darko's review as gospel. I just used it as a basis to try something new! I would have sent my Red back if I didn't notice an improvement.
 
Also, I'm not sure you can put percentages on how people use it (mobile vs computer) -- that's maybe just the people who ware taking the time to respond. Personally, I use mine almost 90% on my laptop and have hardly used the iPhone/CCK at all. When my Sine + Cipher shows up, I plan on comparing that vs standard cable/Red and seeing what I prefer. I honestly hope the Cipher wins out (or at least ties the Red) so I have one less thing to lug around...although I wouldn't mind the Red as it's much less bulky than the strap-on DAC/AMPs I've tried before.

 

[WhiteNoises]

@GerMan Thanks for your reply man!

To be fair I had no idea who DAR_KO was a week or so ago, I only found his website as it had one of the few reviews of the new Dragonflys. And yes I'm certainly within that group who wanted something portable that sounds good, without having to buy a new player. That doesn't mean I'm willing to be happy with anything, though. I think the plan will be to return the Black and keep testing the Red for a few weeks and if I don't start really liking it I'll return that as well. I am aware of the Chord Mojo, of course, but the price is too much for me right now and having another thing to charge every other day isn't appealing to me either. I'd love to try it out for myself with my headphones though.

Matej