[Halimj7]

So, I have the iO-12 for 20 days now and I want speaking about some things.

1. The design. When I looking at the design of the iO-12 few months ago, I'm thinking, and saying publicly (in the ST thread), that I don't like this. When I receiving the Dalis 20 days ago, I'm thinking: "This isn't looking so bad like I thinking before when only looking at videos, but still this really isn't my style". After all this days, is strange but I am actually appreciating that this headphones are some of the more NOT cool looking headphones I owning in my life...and in dark brown colour (definitely not my favourite either) making them even more bad for my eyes!
BUT here I am really starting in last week appreciating this very retro design AND even the colour...and suddenly, in my eyes, something is looking strangely cool about this headphone, and even VERY cool, actually. Strange experience. Is very good that the metal arms are more like nice bronze colour and not shiny gold (if is shiny gold, then I sending back instantly!)

2. Dali are seriously very brave (or little kamikaze maybe!) not giving users an app. So, here we have ONLY two close sounding, but tastefully different, excellent sound profiles ("hi-fi" and "bass"). No more is necessary if you know about good / correct sound. Dali, I think, is making big statement about their strong opinion of the good sound of the iO-12. If you like this 2 similar sound profiles, great, if not, then go for multitude of (very more cheap) alternatives.

3. In difference with the B&W PX8 ---a headphone with much marketing, with so many pseudo reviews, and a lot of hype here in head-fi, with more BS than real sonic substance or sonic excellence, and some poor quality control about the construction quality (I still think the 6-7 years old B&W P7 Wireless is sounding better than the PX8 and having better construction)--- and more similar with T+A's serious research and development with the Solitaire T, or Focal's true research with Bathys, or Mark Levinson's with the 5909, Dali really are doing something serious about their driver engineering and implementation with the iO-12, achieving a very reference type of sound.

Some people mentioning in this thread the treble of the iO-12 having much presence. Yes, is definitely prominent, but only if you're coming from warm / dark sounding headphones like PX8 or Sony models (with heavy bass presence and having, honestly, poor treble performance (recessed, really), allowing you playing your music very loud and not killing your ears with the treble. The treble in the iO-12 is actually in very different quality level, very good / excellent, because is never grating and isn't sibilant, two often typical characteristics of headphones with (strong) treble peaks. Even the indisputable excellent wired-only top of line and expensive Sennheiser HD800 isn't have the quality of treble that the iO-12 is offering.

The iO-12, when speaking strictly about good / correct sound quality, must comparing ONLY with the Solitaire T, ML 5909 (but is have some problematic treble performance sometimes), and maybe the Focal Bathys (but having little recessed mids and more bass than is correct and terrible volume step problems).

Thank you for that input. The HD800 is a great reference point, so comparing the HD800 to the IO-12 would you say the IO-12 is brighter than the HD-800? Thanks.

 

[angelom]

The HD800 is a great reference point, so comparing the HD800 to the IO-12 would you say the IO-12 is brighter than the HD-800?

No. The HD800's treble can be problematic sometimes. The iO-12's treble isn't.

 

[Denkmal]

Thank you for that input. The HD800 is a great reference point, so comparing the HD800 to the IO-12 would you say the IO-12 is brighter than the HD-800? Thanks.

To my ears the IO-12 doesnt suffer from the treble problems of HD800 (some of which remained also in the HD800S).
On the other hand, overpowering treble was probably the only real issue with HD800.
But comparing an open reference can with the IO-12 is not really easy. The HD800 will sound different depending on DAC/AMP so…

 

[kristwi]

So, I have the iO-12 for 20 days now and I want speaking about some things.

1. The design. When I looking at the design of the iO-12 few months ago, I'm thinking, and saying publicly (in the ST thread), that I don't like this. When I receiving the Dalis 20 days ago, I'm thinking: "This isn't looking so bad like I thinking before when only looking at videos, but still this really isn't my style". After all this days, is strange but I am actually appreciating that this headphones are some of the more NOT cool looking headphones I owning in my life...and in dark brown colour (definitely not my favourite either) making them even more bad for my eyes!
BUT here I am really starting in last week appreciating this very retro design AND even the colour...and suddenly, in my eyes, something is looking strangely cool about this headphone, and even VERY cool, actually. Strange experience. Is very good that the metal arms are more like nice bronze colour and not shiny gold (if is shiny gold, then I sending back instantly!)

2. Dali are seriously very brave (or little kamikaze maybe!) not giving users an app. So, here we have ONLY two close sounding, but tastefully different, excellent sound profiles ("hi-fi" and "bass"). No more is necessary if you know about good / correct sound. Dali, I think, is making big statement about their strong opinion of the good sound of the iO-12. If you like this 2 similar sound profiles, great, if not, then go for multitude of (very more cheap) alternatives.

3. In difference with the B&W PX8 ---a headphone with much marketing, with so many pseudo reviews, and a lot of hype here in head-fi, with more BS than real sonic substance or sonic excellence, and some poor quality control about the construction quality (I still think the 6-7 years old B&W P7 Wireless is sounding better than the PX8 and having better construction)--- and more similar with T+A's serious research and development with the Solitaire T, or Focal's true research with Bathys, or Mark Levinson's with the 5909, Dali really are doing something serious about their driver engineering and implementation with the iO-12, achieving a very reference type of sound.

Some people mentioning in this thread the treble of the iO-12 having much presence. Yes, is definitely prominent, but only if you're coming from warm / dark sounding headphones like PX8 or Sony models (with heavy bass presence and having, honestly, poor treble performance (recessed, really), allowing you playing your music very loud and not killing your ears with the treble. The treble in the iO-12 is actually in very different quality level, very good / excellent, because is never grating and isn't sibilant, two often typical characteristics of headphones with (strong) treble peaks. Even the indisputable excellent wired-only top of line and expensive Sennheiser HD800 isn't have the quality of treble that the iO-12 is offering.

The iO-12, when speaking strictly about good / correct sound quality, must comparing ONLY with the Solitaire T, ML 5909 (but is have some problematic treble performance sometimes), and maybe the Focal Bathys (but having little recessed mids and more bass than is correct and terrible volume step problems).

imo no matter how good these will be its still not gonna be worth 999. momentum 4 or new sony high end for 1/3 the price. and wont be sounding 3 times worse. and if on par i will be laughing. also older b&w dont sound better than newer ones, far from true. i heard almost all b&w over the years they get better.

 

[Denkmal]

imo no matter how good these will be its still not gonna be worth 999. momentum 4 or new sony high end for 1/3 the price. and wont be sounding 3 times worse. and if on par i will be laughing. also older b&w dont sound better than newer ones, far from true. i heard almost all b&w over the years they get better.

Not sure what you think is ”high end” from Sony but if you refer to the ANC cans they do not come close in sound quality. Momentum 4 is better but still far from this league. The only statement I can agree to is that B&W actually stepped up their game, but even PX8 is not really performing like IO-12, in pure sound quality. And I am one of PX8s biggest fans…

 

[angelom]

imo no matter how good these will be its still not gonna be worth 999. momentum 4 or new sony high end for 1/3 the price. and wont be sounding 3 times worse. and if on par i will be laughing. also older b&w dont sound better than newer ones, far from true. i heard almost all b&w over the years they get better.

You are, of course, correct in 100% every aspect of your post.

But, if you allowing me taking your excellent, very experienced, comments more far, I really think is better if you buying a 100 EUR (or less) headphone that I'm sure will be equal, or very possibly better, than ALL the models you mentioning in your post, including, naturally, the iO-12.

 

[kristwi]

Not sure what you think is ”high end” from Sony but if you refer to the ANC cans they do not come close in sound quality. Momentum 4 is better but still far from this league. The only statement I can agree to is that B&W actually stepped up their game, but even PX8 is not really performing like IO-12, in pure sound quality. And I am one of PX8s biggest fans…

I do need to give DALI a chance and listen first, just can’t believe they will be that much better than Momentum 4.

 

[Denkmal]

I do need to give DALI a chance and listen first, just can’t believe they will be that much better than Momentum 4.

M4 is good, even great for the price. Paying 3-4 times more will not give 3-4 times better sound but it will be a very clear step up, sound wise.

 

[TomBY]

Well in reality people will of course compare it with whatever they like. I did appreciate the sound of IO-12 but decided to not buy since it really didnt fit my use case. It is definitely one of the best wireless ANC headphones out there but only from a strict sound perspective. If your use case is requiring any kind of portability or you want to be able to walk around in public or use on a plane etc, the IO-12 is BIG.
I am sensitive to this and sold my Bathys and decided against ML5909 but to me, the IO-12 wouldnt make it out of my home office. And then I might as well go wired.

It will be interesting to see the quality of IO-12, as previous Dali models had some issues. Maybe it will be allright, time will tell. But if we compare with e g PX8 which you claim has ”poor construction quality”, I guess the standards are really really high.

I completely agree with you. Wireless headphones with ANC‘s most prominent use case is to be used on the road, while traveling. As such, portability is prominent issue. And this is the achilles heel of the IO-12. Not only is the headphone itself fairly large, however, the very spacious case makes the product not very suitable for carrying around while traveling. And because I would never judge my travel headphone just from the sound perspective, I opted against the IO-12 in favor for the PX8. The sound of the PX8 isn’t miles behind of the IO-12, so that portability and ANC outweigh the sound benefits of the IO-12 (for me). So far, I can‘t see any aspect of the PX8 that indicates poor construction quality. On the other hand, the operating controls of the IO-12 look somehow the same as on the IO-6 with respect to material and quality, which isn‘t really appropriate to the price level of the IO-12. The on/off switch stopped working on my IO-6 after a few months, so if I would be suspicious about construction quality, I would rather think of the IO-12.

However, based on what I have read so far about the PX8 and obviously about just announced IO-12 construction problems aren’t widely known.

 

[Maukey]

I completely agree with you. Wireless headphones with ANC‘s most prominent use case is to be used on the road, while traveling. As such, portability is prominent issue. And this is the achilles heel of the IO-12. Not only is the headphone itself fairly large, however, the very spacious case makes the product not very suitable for carrying around while traveling. And because I would never judge my travel headphone just from the sound perspective, I opted against the IO-12 in favor for the PX8. The sound of the PX8 isn’t miles behind of the IO-12, so that portability and ANC outweigh the sound benefits of the IO-12 (for me). So far, I can‘t see any aspect of the PX8 that indicates poor construction quality. On the other hand, the operating controls of the IO-12 look somehow the same as on the IO-6 with respect to material and quality, which isn‘t really appropriate to the price level of the IO-12. The on/off switch stopped working on my IO-6 after a few months, so if I would be suspicious about construction quality, I would rather think of the IO-12.

However, based on what I have read so far about the PX8 and obviously about just announced IO-12 construction problems aren’t widely known.

I agree about the iO-12 being big and not very travel friendly. I personally will put them in my suitcase for certain trips and carry my AirPods Pro 2 and maybe Bose QuietComfort Ultra in my book bag.

Regarding what you said about the materials and operating controls on the iO-12, this is just not true. I owned the Dali iO-6 for years. The main issue with the iO-6 was as you stated, "the on/off switch". It would get sticky with some units and not power the headphones. The iO-12 have a push button on/off switch. The materials, buttons, and even click button on the ear cup feels MUCH more premium than the iO-6.

 

[jthomp72]

I agree about the iO-12 being big and not very travel friendly. I personally will put them in my suitcase for certain trips and carry my AirPods Pro 2 and maybe Bose QuietComfort Ultra in my book bag.

Regarding what you said about the materials and operating controls on the iO-12, this is just not true. I owned the Dali iO-6 for years. The main issue with the iO-6 was as you stated, "the on/off switch". It would get sticky with some units and not power the headphones. The iO-12 have a push button on/off switch. The materials, buttons, and even click button on the ear cup feels MUCH more premium than the iO-6.

How is the quietcomfort ultra? Have they made any huge changes since the 700

 

[Maukey]

How is the quietcomfort ultra? Have they made any huge changes since the 700

I love the QuietComfort Ultra. My new favorite commuter/travel headphone. Compared to what I remember of the 700, I wouldn't say huge changes. Sounds better than I remember of the 700 (I wasn't a fan of the 700 sound). I believe the Ultra is a little more comfortable. The new immersive mode on the Ultra is surprisingly good for certain use cases and not a gimmick at all. Has the advantage of working with any application unlike Apple's spatial audio. The best headphone Bose has made since the Bose QC35 II in my opinion.

 

[angelom]

Wireless headphones with ANC‘s most prominent use case is to be used on the road, while traveling. As such, portability is prominent issue. And this is the achilles heel of the IO-12. Not only is the headphone itself fairly large, however, the very spacious case makes the product not very suitable for carrying around while traveling. And because I would never judge my travel headphone just from the sound perspective, I opted against the IO-12 in favor for the PX8. The sound of the PX8 isn’t miles behind of the IO-12, so that portability and ANC outweigh the sound benefits of the IO-12 (for me).

Is true that the iO-12 is big and the travel case is big too. I, personally, never using ANC headphones for commuting or in public places, only for travelling by airplane. If I want ANC in the city, (bus, cafe, bank, post office or similar places), I prefer the ultra portable and VERY pocketable AirPods Pro 2nd Gen (APP2). Today, in difference with few years ago, specially with the APP2 and Bose QuietComfort Ultra Earbuds, and little less but also the Sony ANC earphones, they providing very similar levels of isolation, and very comparable sound too, than the (big) ANC headphones by Apple, Bose or Sony. Independently of the big size of the iO-12, many people still preferring NOT using headphones, big or not so big, in public. This is one reason the APP2 sales are so big. (By the way, I personally prefer the sound quality / tonal balance of the APP2 than the PX8 and AirPods Max)

And is true too that many people taking their ANC headphones in a backpack or similar and ONLY using them in the office for many hours. And even in the home many people, like me, using wireless headphones or earphones (with or without ANC) instead of wired-only headphones or earphones for the freedom of mobility, not only for moving around the home freely, but even when sitting down with a computer where not having a cable is giving a great free feeling. And of course with good wired-only headphones, like the HD800, you needing a good amp and maybe even DAC too.

So far, I can‘t see any aspect of the PX8 that indicates poor construction quality. On the other hand, the operating controls of the IO-12 look somehow the same as on the IO-6 with respect to material and quality, which isn‘t really appropriate to the price level of the IO-12. The on/off switch stopped working on my IO-6 after a few months, so if I would be suspicious about construction quality, I would rather think of the IO-12.

However, based on what I have read so far about the PX8 and obviously about just announced IO-12 construction problems aren’t widely known.

You have numerous (not just one, two or three or four) reports of problems with the PX8 headband. I following all the extremely long PX8 thread for little more than one year and you seeing numerous people commenting about this problem. And even some BIG PX8 fans admitting that, not matter what excuses others BIG PX8 fans making, quality control, specifically in the PX8, is a concern. The H95 and 5909, by the way, having similar problems with the headband, but very, very many less reports.

And like Maukey saying, my memory of the iO-6 about the on/off button is that is not of the clear more high quality and solid feel of the iO-12's buttons. Only the time will saying if the iO-12 will having problems in this or other areas.

 

[jthomp72]

I love the QuietComfort Ultra. My new favorite commuter/travel headphone. Compared to what I remember of the 700, I wouldn't say huge changes. Sounds better than I remember of the 700 (I wasn't a fan of the 700 sound). I believe the Ultra is a little more comfortable. The new immersive mode on the Ultra is surprisingly good for certain use cases and not a gimmick at all. Has the advantage of working with any application unlike Apple's spatial audio. The best headphone Bose has made since the Bose QC35 II in my opinion.

I’m tempted to pick those up as much as I love my PX8’s the genuine lightweight comfort Bose always delivers intrigues me. They always are so damn light on the head.

 

[TomBY]

I agree about the iO-12 being big and not very travel friendly. I personally will put them in my suitcase for certain trips and carry my AirPods Pro 2 and maybe Bose QuietComfort Ultra in my book bag.

Regarding what you said about the materials and operating controls on the iO-12, this is just not true. I owned the Dali iO-6 for years. The main issue with the iO-6 was as you stated, "the on/off switch". It would get sticky with some units and not power the headphones. The iO-12 have a push button on/off switch. The materials, buttons, and even click button on the ear cup feels MUCH more premium than the iO-6.

You are right, the IO-12 has a push button, whereas the IO-6 a switch. Nevertheless, I would neither attest the IO-12 nor the PX8 construction issues.