[Denkmal]

I have a question for whoever owns a pair of these. Are they suitable to use with an external DAC/amp? So they bypass the internal DAC in that case?

Thanks

The WhatHifi review suggests they are possible to use passively. Wether that is ”suitable” or renders a better sound than the internal DAC I dont know.

 

[absolutnie]

I have to make a comparison between the Dali iO-12 and the B&O H95, as this has been on my mind recently and I don't want to buy two expensive Bluetooth headphones. First of all: I like the H95 a lot and I find it underrepresented in the thread so far and would like to counterbalance it with this post.

Sound: Yes, the sound is better with the Dali iO-12. A clear step forward, the music sounds more authentic, with a larger stage and clearer instrument separation. I wouldn't disagree with that, although I am a beginner and not experienced as many others here with hearing the difference in sound. However, the difference is especially audible when you hear the headphones in direct comparison. But that's the thing: if you listen to music normally, you never hear the headphones in direct comparison.
I also listen to a lot of electronic music, so the quality of the bass is very important to me and the sub-bass of the H95 is unrivaled so far, the treble is never really sharp. The ML 5909s were too stressful for me (I even got headache), where the treble was too sharp (comparable to the iO-12s, although the iO-12s aren't as exhausting), the H95s are perfectly balanced and don't distract from the song. However, the Dali iO-12s remain unrivaled in terms of soundstage. Nevertheless, the H95s always remain interesting thanks to the EQ option and are by no means bad headphones in terms of sound and are better than the majority of Bluetooth headphones such as the Bose QC, Sony MX series, AirPods Max and others.

Comfort/feel: Due to the lighter weight and better fit, the H95s give me a better grip on my head. I can bend down/look down with them on without them slipping off my head (unlike the iO-12). When I lie down and turn my head to the side, I press the buttons on the right ear cup of the iO-12. Also, the H95s are not pushed upwards by the pillow when I lie down, as is the case with the iO-12s due to their large design.
Even more than with the iO-12, where there is quite a lot of plastic and silicone, I really enjoy looking at, touching and putting on the H95s. The design is simply sexy, the ear cups are largely made of aluminum and the rest of leather. In addition to the enjoyment of music, there is also a pleasant feeling of value, especially with the H95s.

UX: In contrast to the sound, where differences are only noticeable through direct comparison, the operations is always present when using the headphones. And here B&O is simply unrivaled. I thought I was a fan of touch operation and automatic start-stop when taking off/putting on the headphones. But after several months of testing various headphones, I've realized that I always have to search for buttons, which takes longer to operate and the automatic start/stop function never really works that way. In my opinion, B&O has done everything right here: In every position, the sound can be changed quickly in smaller and larger steps using the rotary ring. The touch controls for start/stop, next/previous song are also really quick to use without having to search for buttons or operating errors. They always work. The iO-12 is definitely good too, as the buttons are large due to the assignment of the entire ear cup. But with the H95, everything is simply even quicker. And with around a hundred operations per day on the headphones, this is noticeable for me.

Price: With a bit of luck, you can currently get the H95 for half the price of the iO-12 (and the battery can possibly be replaced by yourself compared to the ML 5909). And there are fewer problems with a headband coming loose, as was often the case with the Px8 in addition to the ML 5909. But well, even the H95 are not spared from problems and there have already been a few warranty cases on the web, even if they never seemed that serious to me and so far everything has been solved by a very generous warranty handling by B&O.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts and exchange ideas with you. It makes our hobby twice as exciting and entertaining!

Interestingly, to me H95 were overly processed sounding which I've noticed in the cymbals decay in few recordings. They were gated with a noticeable cutback. That was few years back though and potential updates could have resolve these issues since. The EQ, although working, was a mixed bag due to its nature of implementation. Build quality was actually quite good and I liked the volume wheel more manufacturers should adopt the concept imho

 

[krenzler]

With most of these wireless ANC headphones it makes little sense to run them passively as the whole tuning of the drivers and complete package is based around DSP. Some audiophiles may think that passive with better external gear is more clean/correct but that is missing the point wholly. It's a complete package tuned in tandem with the internal DSP/amp/DAC module.

It may be that the T+A Solitaire is made to sound great in passive mode too but that is an outlier and not the typical scenario.

 

[angelom]

With most of these wireless ANC headphones it makes little sense to run them passively as the whole tuning of the drivers and complete package is based around DSP. Some audiophiles may think that passive with better external gear is more clean/correct but that is missing the point wholly. It's a complete package tuned in tandem with the internal DSP/amp/DAC module.

It may be that the T+A Solitaire is made to sound great in passive mode too but that is an outlier and not the typical scenario.

You are correct in some ways but not in others.

Several Solitaire T (ST) owners actually using the ST in fully passive / wired mode, and even some use the ST fully passively in balanced mode (the is other unique aspect of the ST). And several ST owners comparing the sound of the ST with other wired-only headphones of similar, or even more expensive, price. The fact that bluetooth mode in "High Quality" mode of the ST (that giving you 35 hrs of battery life instead of 70 hrs in normal BT mode) --that have a unique tech that only this headphone is using-- that is giving so really very close sound quality to wired only mode, is making the ST a truly unique headphone, and possibly maybe not so expensive when you considering what you are really getting for 1300 EUR / $1600 USD.

The problem, in this particular aspect, with the io12 is that Dali claiming that the excellent sound in BT mode and USB-C mode (with obvious DSP on) is the same when using fully passively (meaning: without DSP on). Claiming this, like with the ST, attracting more audiophiles customers that maybe at home want using the io12 in fully passive mode with a DAC and/or amp.

In my personal case, I deciding selling my ST because I'm using the iO-12, like the ST, the very majority of the time in BT mode only AND because of the very excellent volume control implementation of the io12 that is absolutely critical for me. Of course, if the sound of the io12 isn't so excellent in BT mode, I don't keeping the Dalis at all.

Maybe is more honest from Dali saying "We have a very excellent sounding bluetooth and USB-C cabled headphone...with special drivers we using in top end speakers, etc., etc."..."BUT we also giving you option of using fully passively the iO-12 in case your battery dying, but the sound quality isn't so great". Obviously the second part of this is bad marketing and unrealistic and Dali never will saying this.

Mark Levinson, with the 5909, that costing 1000 EUR like the Dali, making similar claim about BT and fully passive mode sound quality. In this aspect the 5909 is, again, NOT so good like the excellent ST, but their claim is more close to reality than Dali's claim.

 

[krenzler]

You are correct in some ways but not in others.

I feel like we are in agreement so not sure where I'm not correct then?

 

[Maukey]

Received my iO-12 a couple of days ago. These are my initial impressions.

Design - Excellent. Solid build, premium feel. Very big though, wouldn't travel with them unless I put them in my luggage and carried them as a secondary pair. The sound will definitely encourage me to do that though. More to come on that

Comfort - Excellent. Reminds me of the iO-6 but with different shaped earpads and a little heavier. Will definitely be near the top of the class.

Features - A step up over the iO-6, but still not a feature monster. No app or built-in EQ. There is multipoint, USB-C Audio, and a button on the headphones for bass boost.

ANC/Transparency - ANC is actually really good. Passive isolation is similar to the Bathys, which means not as good as the Solitaire T or PX8. Transparency is surprisingly good

Sound - Detailed, Spacious, and Addictive. Makes me want to listen for hours. Compared to the Solitaire T, is definitely in the same class. Solitaire T's are a little more neutral and resolving. Sounds a little cleaner overall. The iO-12 sounds bigger and more dynamic. Solitaire T wins the battle of sound consistency in all modes. Haven't listened to the iO-12 passively yet, but similar to the iO-6, ANC On adds bass and slightly changes the treble. ANC off sounds a little more neutral. Neither mode sounds bad by any means though. These 2 headphones are easily to my ears the leaders of sound quality in the wireless ANC world.

 

[Halimj7]

Received my iO-12 a couple of days ago. These are my initial impressions.

Design - Excellent. Solid build, premium feel. Very big though, wouldn't travel with them unless I put them in my luggage and carried them as a secondary pair. The sound will definitely encourage me to do that though. More to come on that

Comfort - Excellent. Reminds me of the iO-6 but with different shaped earpads and a little heavier. Will definitely be near the top of the class.

Features - A step up over the iO-6, but still not a feature monster. No app or built-in EQ. There is multipoint, USB-C Audio, and a button on the headphones for bass boost.

ANC/Transparency - ANC is actually really good. Passive isolation is similar to the Bathys, which means not as good as the Solitaire T or PX8. Transparency is surprisingly good

Sound - Detailed, Spacious, and Addictive. Makes me want to listen for hours. Compared to the Solitaire T, is definitely in the same class. Solitaire T's are a little more neutral and resolving. Sounds a little cleaner overall. The iO-12 sounds bigger and more dynamic. Solitaire T wins the battle of sound consistency in all modes. Haven't listened to the iO-12 passively yet, but similar to the iO-6, ANC On adds bass and slightly changes the treble. ANC off sounds a little more neutral. Neither mode sounds bad by any means though. These 2 headphones are easily to my ears the leaders of sound quality in the wireless ANC world.

I know the Audiotechnica WB2022 does not have ANC but how does it compare to Solitaire T and IO-12. I hear it is the best in sound quality by a lot!

 

[angelom]

I hear it is the best in sound quality by a lot!

I 'love' the very frequent exaggerations when people speaking about (very) expensive equipment. You must learning discerning about reputable/credible, serious and reliable sources that speaking about audio because many audio publication sources, or people in this forum, using often fancy words but exaggerating equally. Finding this reliable/credible sources or people isn't always easy. And saying "it is the best in sound quality by a lot!" for me is almost 100% a joke...for several reasons. And saying "...by a lot!" is a comment that is already clearly suspicious for me.

I'm sure Maukey never hearing the ATH-WB2022 and I don't either. A BIG aspect of the ATH-WB2022's high price is that is 60th anniversary edition ATH headphone (with limited number of units) and using expensive materials and apparently very good attention for the construction. BUT, this isn't guaranteeing excellent, or even very good, sound. But I imagine that the sound is at least reasonably (very) good.

You're asking someone here comparing a BT-only headphone with no ANC, a headphone that having only 9 hours of battery life and not offering aptX codecs of any type (!!), by the way, to 2 of the best, if not the top best, ANC headphones today.

 

[kristwi]

As someone who had quite a lot of wireless headphones in my hands, id stay as far away from anything DALI which is Wireless Headphones. After the shock of the DALI IO6/4, absolutley terrifing build quality and sound quality. But if this one is really much better maybe. Then again B&W wirless headphones broke down even in support times more than anything ive ever seen in my life.
I'd go for Sony and Sennheiser, sorry.

 

[Denkmal]

As someone who had quite a lot of wireless headphones in my hands, id stay as far away from anything DALI which is Wireless Headphones. After the shock of the DALI IO6/4, absolutley terrifing build quality and sound quality. But if this one is really much better maybe. Then again B&W wirless headphones broke down even in support times more than anything ive ever seen in my life.
I'd go for Sony and Sennheiser, sorry.

Well I have limited experience with Dali but my B&W stuff always worked well.
I love my Sonys too but unfortunately it is like comparing a Toyota with an Aston Martin. The Toyota is likely to hold up better but give you zero pleasure when driving it…

 

[angelom]

As someone who had quite a lot of wireless headphones in my hands, id stay as far away from anything DALI which is Wireless Headphones. After the shock of the DALI IO6/4, absolutley terrifing build quality and sound quality. But if this one is really much better maybe. Then again B&W wirless headphones broke down even in support times more than anything ive ever seen in my life.
I'd go for Sony and Sennheiser, sorry.

I understand your post very well. I'm very critical of the iO-6 when I owning this few years ago. The construction quality isn't so good (in fact, looking cheap, in my opinion), specially for the price when releasing; and the sound quality, for me, isn't convincing me at all, specially in treble region (but also in bass a little).

The iO-12 is really in different league (from my memory of the iO6)

 

[Halimj7]

Can anyone say what parts of the IO-12 are metal and tell if the IO-12 is more neutral than ST which most reviewers explain as neutral warm.

 

[Denkmal]

Can anyone say what parts of the IO-12 are metal and tell if the IO-12 is more neutral than ST which most reviewers explain as neutral warm.

I will let someone else speak to the materials although I will say that there is more plastics than I had expected in this price range. Overall I would rate the feel and finish lower than B&W PX, M&D 75 or B&O H95 but not by much. The IO-12 feels well built, just a little too much bling and accents for my taste. And oh, it is huge for an ANC headphone.

I did not perceive this as a warm sounding headphone, rather it seemed quite bright. On the other hand, I was doing an A-B comparison with PX8 and the IO-12 is very different. Larger soundstage, more neutral, brighter treble and overall more hifi. An excellent sounding headphone and probably the best wireless ANC headphone I have heard. From memory, I liked it more than Focal Bathys, ML5909 and T+A Solitaire T.
I would probably use these for everything except old school rock for which I really like the warmer sound of PX8.

If you can live with the looks, size and price it is hard to go wrong with these.

 

[angelom]

So, I have the iO-12 for 20 days now and I want speaking about some things.

1. The design. When I looking at the design of the iO-12 few months ago, I'm thinking, and saying publicly (in the ST thread), that I don't like this. When I receiving the Dalis 20 days ago, I'm thinking: "This isn't looking so bad like I thinking before when only looking at videos, but still this really isn't my style". After all this days, is strange but I am actually appreciating that this headphones are some of the more NOT cool looking headphones I owning in my life...and in dark brown colour (definitely not my favourite either) making them even more bad for my eyes!
BUT here I am really starting in last week appreciating this very retro design AND even the colour...and suddenly, in my eyes, something is looking strangely cool about this headphone, and even VERY cool, actually. Strange experience. Is very good that the metal arms are more like nice bronze colour and not shiny gold (if is shiny gold, then I sending back instantly!)

2. Dali are seriously very brave (or little kamikaze maybe!) not giving users an app. So, here we have ONLY two close sounding, but tastefully different, excellent sound profiles ("hi-fi" and "bass"). No more is necessary if you know about good / correct sound. Dali, I think, is making big statement about their strong opinion of the good sound of the iO-12. If you like this 2 similar sound profiles, great, if not, then go for multitude of (very more cheap) alternatives.

3. In difference with the B&W PX8 ---a headphone with much marketing, with so many pseudo reviews, and a lot of hype here in head-fi, with more BS than real sonic substance or sonic excellence, and some poor quality control about the construction quality (I still think the 6-7 years old B&W P7 Wireless is sounding better than the PX8 and having better construction)--- and more similar with T+A's serious research and development with the Solitaire T, or Focal's true research with Bathys, or Mark Levinson's with the 5909, Dali really are doing something serious about their driver engineering and implementation with the iO-12, achieving a very reference type of sound.

Some people mentioning in this thread the treble of the iO-12 having much presence. Yes, is definitely prominent, but only if you're coming from warm / dark sounding headphones like PX8 or Sony models (with heavy bass presence and having, honestly, poor treble performance (recessed, really), allowing you playing your music very loud and not killing your ears with the treble. The treble in the iO-12 is actually in very different quality level, very good / excellent, because is never grating and isn't sibilant, two often typical characteristics of headphones with (strong) treble peaks. Even the indisputable excellent wired-only top of line and expensive Sennheiser HD800 isn't have the quality of treble that the iO-12 is offering.

The iO-12, when speaking strictly about good / correct sound quality, must comparing ONLY with the Solitaire T, ML 5909 (but is have some problematic treble performance sometimes), and maybe the Focal Bathys (but having little recessed mids and more bass than is correct and terrible volume step problems).

 

[Denkmal]

The iO-12, when speaking strictly about good / correct sound quality, must comparing ONLY with the Solitaire T, ML 5909 (but is have some problematic treble performance sometimes), and maybe the Focal Bathys (but having little recessed mids and more bass than is correct and terrible volume step problems).

Well in reality people will of course compare it with whatever they like. I did appreciate the sound of IO-12 but decided to not buy since it really didnt fit my use case. It is definitely one of the best wireless ANC headphones out there but only from a strict sound perspective. If your use case is requiring any kind of portability or you want to be able to walk around in public or use on a plane etc, the IO-12 is BIG.
I am sensitive to this and sold my Bathys and decided against ML5909 but to me, the IO-12 wouldnt make it out of my home office. And then I might as well go wired.

It will be interesting to see the quality of IO-12, as previous Dali models had some issues. Maybe it will be allright, time will tell. But if we compare with e g PX8 which you claim has ”poor construction quality”, I guess the standards are really really high.