[paco Tomoya]

This thread has more than 1,000 replies. Didn't anyone mention this matter? ：beerchug：

This is a happy moment, and the new hifi device has been emphasised.

 

[zolkis]

I really think that the Dali IO-12 is the best Bluetooth ANC headphone on the market. But let’s be honest, it comes with a lot of handicaps, which makes the IO-12 mediocre decent at best compared to the E3, the Liric 2, or other flagship wired closed-back headphones.

However, in its category, these cans are top-class.

I think that it’s important to note for any consumer that with the Dali IO-12, you are purchasing a top ANC headphone, but not necessarily a top closed-back headphone… at least, in my opinion.

EDIT: I made an edit to my previous text to change the word ‘mediocre’, which contains a negative connotation, to the word ‘decent’, which is more suitable for this situation

A fair comparison would be if Denon added BT+ANC to the D7200 (currently ~700 eur) -- IMHO that could sound better than (or at least similar to) the IO-12, around similar price.

One can also add a Bluetooth receiver/amp to a regular wired headphone, but without ANC -- which is the recommended mode for the IO-12 anyway, so then one can indeed compare wireless headphone "solutions". However, the IO-12 is integrated and convenient.

Dali did a decent job on optimizing the whole system given these drivers, maybe save the ear pads, where they compromised on comfort and mainstream BT/ANC sound preferences (lots of bass heaviness) for which we can mainly thank Sony... and younger generations which grew up thinking this is the good sound.
But after some mods resulting in thinner ear pads (less bass boom, more clarity and depth) I came to love the IO-12 enough that I use my wired headphones much less, out of convenience. That means the IO-12 is competing successfully against more expensive wired closed headphones - at least in my case.

I am pretty sure competition will ramp up and BT+ANC headphones will enter more and more the audiophile realm (the IO-12 and T+A ST being first). It will take some years, but we'll get there. Key to this will be good drivers, so Dali has put the money where it matters most.

 

[paco Tomoya]

A fair comparison would be if Denon added BT+ANC to the D7200 (currently ~700 eur) -- IMHO that could sound better than (or at least similar to) the IO-12, around similar price.

One can also add a Bluetooth receiver/amp to a regular wired headphone, but without ANC -- which is the recommended mode for the IO-12 anyway, so then one can indeed compare wireless headphone "solutions". However, the IO-12 is integrated and convenient.

Dali did a decent job on optimizing the whole system given these drivers, maybe save the ear pads, where they compromised on comfort and mainstream BT/ANC sound preferences (lots of bass heaviness) for which we can mainly thank Sony... and younger generations which grew up thinking this is the good sound.
But after some mods resulting in thinner ear pads (less bass boom, more clarity and depth) I came to love the IO-12 enough that I use my wired headphones much less, out of convenience. That means the IO-12 is competing successfully against more expensive wired closed headphones - at least in my case.

I am pretty sure competition will ramp up and BT+ANC headphones will enter more and more the audiophile realm (the IO-12 and T+A ST being first). It will take some years, but we'll get there. Key to this will be good drivers, so Dali has put the money where it matters most.

I have tried to use qulcos mub1/ audirect team1 to combine a Bluetooth version denon d7200 , but the effect is not better than Dali. At present, denon plays better in wired mode, and I am also looking forward to denon launching a Bluetooth version of the product.

Denon's headphone unit is no worse than Dali, but the effect under these "Bluetooth mode" is not as good as Dali, which makes me believe that Dali spends money on dac. I have tested the passive mode of io12 with several different devices, such as fiio k7, which is not as good as the built-in dac of io12. Dali must have spent a lot of effort on the training of this dac.

If you think so, dali io12 is composed of a d7200-level headphone + a dac worth $500, you may think that dali has become cost-effective.

Anyway, Dali is still very expensive!

 

[musingclouds]

There’s some great pricing on the IO-12s in the classified for those in Europe!

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

This is one of the few opinions I think we share ha, but advances in codecs and DSP technology will push these BT/ANC headphones closer and closer to the performance of regular wired sets. With each passing generation the gap gets smaller and smaller.

We’re already there

 

[Frabera]

The IO-12 cannot compete in terms of sound quality in any way among the great wired closed backs like the E3, the Atrium closed, the Caldera closed etc..

 

[musingclouds]

A fair comparison would be if Denon added BT+ANC to the D7200 (currently ~700 eur) -- IMHO that could sound better than (or at least similar to) the IO-12, around similar price.

One can also add a Bluetooth receiver/amp to a regular wired headphone, but without ANC -- which is the recommended mode for the IO-12 anyway, so then one can indeed compare wireless headphone "solutions". However, the IO-12 is integrated and convenient.

Dali did a decent job on optimizing the whole system given these drivers, maybe save the ear pads, where they compromised on comfort and mainstream BT/ANC sound preferences (lots of bass heaviness) for which we can mainly thank Sony... and younger generations which grew up thinking this is the good sound.
But after some mods resulting in thinner ear pads (less bass boom, more clarity and depth) I came to love the IO-12 enough that I use my wired headphones much less, out of convenience. That means the IO-12 is competing successfully against more expensive wired closed headphones - at least in my case.

I am pretty sure competition will ramp up and BT+ANC headphones will enter more and more the audiophile realm (the IO-12 and T+A ST being first). It will take some years, but we'll get there. Key to this will be good drivers, so Dali has put the money where it matters most.

I would love to buy your pad mods if you ever sell them. I’m just not very handy and would be happy to pay a bit of premium to try it out

 

[polymathic]

The IO-12 cannot compete in terms of sound quality in any way among the great wired closed backs like the E3, the Atrium closed, the Caldera closed etc..

I'm not understanding the point of these repeated comparisons. They can't compete because they are different things. The Dali IO-12 are wireless ANC 1000 EUR headphones. The headphones you mention cost many times more, require additional expensive equipment, are not wireless, have no ANC. Imagine a thread on cars praising the Golf GTI, and someone jumps in and say the GTI cannot compete with an electric Tesla Model S Plaid that cost three times as much and is not even a gas engine.

 

[Frabera]

Absolutely that’s why it was important to refixed everything for some people who sincerely think it’s one of the best closed back on the market…

 

[polymathic]

Refixed? I have been following this thread and read many reviews, and I have never read anyone stating this is on the best closed backs on the market. People have only stated it is one of the best closed back ANC wireless headphone.

 

[musingclouds]

Absolutely that’s why it was important to refixed everything for some people who sincerely think it’s one of the best closed back on the market…

Nobody has ever said that.

Just that it’s the best Bluetooth headphone on the market

 

[chesebert]

Absolutely that’s why it was important to refixed everything for some people who sincerely think it’s one of the best closed back on the market…

Not even close to best closed back.

 

[hutzelmeier]

Just listened to Bubbles by Yosi Jorikawa with the IO-12, the HD800S and a Stax SR-X9000 that I purchased second-hand a few weeks ago (I’m listening to it with a SRM-700T amplifier borrowed from a friend). Retail price for the Stax combo is about 10 times that of the IO-12. With the Stax, the bouncing of the balls around me is an extremely realistic and pleasurable 3D-experience, there is just so much happening in the soundscape, more than with any other headphone I’ve tested. The HD800S has a similar soundstage width but much less depth, the dancing balls come from all the different directions but, in comparison to the Stax, they all have a similar distance from my head. The great thing about the IO-12 is that it gives me much of what the two others do: a somewhat similar soundstage, a surprisingly similar tonality, and sufficient detail, plus the freedom from all the cables. Of course it does not perform like an acoustic microscope in the sense of the Stax, but it’s still a lovely experience both acoustically and haptically, and simply the only choice for me when I leave my desk. I suppose that’s what the IO-12 was built for!

 

[angelom]

Dali did a decent job on optimizing the whole system given these drivers, maybe save the ear pads, where they compromised on comfort and mainstream BT/ANC sound preferences (lots of bass heaviness) for which we can mainly thank Sony... and younger generations which grew up thinking this is the good sound.

The HD800S has a similar soundstage width but much less depth, the dancing balls come from all the different directions but, in comparison to the Stax, they all have a similar distance from my head. The great thing about the IO-12 is that it gives me much of what the two others do: a somewhat similar soundstage, a surprisingly similar tonality, and sufficient detail,

Welcome to head-fi where you will seeing diametrically opposing views/descriptions of the same headphone.

 

[Blanchot]

I own the 5909, Bathys and the Solitaire T. The 5909 I no longer use because the headband has disintegrated (a common problem with this HP), the Solitaire T I use mainly in wired mode. In Bluetooth mode I find that the volume is a bit too low on the ST (I have the newest firmware version). I'm now considering the IO-12.

Am I right in thinking that the Dali has higher volume than the Solitaire T and a more refined sound than the Bathys?