New Dali iO-12 ANC Headphones – Impressions Thread
Mar 29, 2024 at 6:09 PM Post #946 of 1,118
Yeah you gotta do what you gotta do! At least the return window is good :) for me personally, I’m excited about future firmware updates. Dali support has been fantastic so far
 
Mar 29, 2024 at 7:44 PM Post #947 of 1,118
So after more a/b comparison with the momentum 4 and almost a full work week of listening to the Dali, I’ve basically come to this. The Dalis sound fantastic, more open and more detailed plus a wider soundstage than the m4. Do they sound $1000 better? Like I said in my initial post…I definitely don’t think so. In fact the momentum puts up a fight. Build is clearly better on the Dali. But one thing that did get me was the amount of battery drain on the Dali as compared to the momentum. I know 30 hours is standard but to lose 20% in a day or whatever it was freaked me out, especially on a $1300 headphone with a non user replaceable battery. Maybe I’m just used to the 60 on the m4 but that did feel like a downgrade. All things considered, to me, they aren’t $1000 apart. Pretty sure I’m returning them. If they were 6 or 7 hundred it would be a different story. But for 1300 Im struggling to justify it.

Side note…unlike whatever that dude in the other forum said, no one forced me into buying the Dali. I legitimately thought I’d be keeping them for the foreseeable future. Dali is highly regarded, the reviews were tremendous and they are a one stop shop headphone so I wanted them to work for me and I thought the extra $1000 would have been justified. That doesn’t mean they aren’t incredible headphones though. They certainly are. Maybe I’ll wait to see if they come down in price I guess.

Everybody's decisions about sound, pricing, design, etc. are very personal and of course your decision for returning the iO-12 is the right decision for you. But I want making some comments.

About the battery:

The official battery life of the iO-12 is 35 hours. In my test from few months ago, from 100% to 5% I obtaining 41 hours and 9 minutes (Hi-fi setting + ANC Off) at average of 50% volume, a volume level that is very sufficiently loud for me (often I personally need less volume even, but for my test I keeping at 50%).

If we imagine that you obtaining only 35 hours with one charge and you have 500 full charging cycles in your battery, this will giving you 17500 hours. If you use the iO-12 for 7 hours every day (including Saturdays and Sundays), you have 2500 days (7 hours x 2500 days = 17500 hours), you have almost 7 years of use (6.85 exactly), and after that time your battery will having still 80% capacity, meaning that you still have several years before needing a new battery.

The 1000 USD / 1000 EUR ML 5909 giving you 30 hours per charge, I think. The 1700 USD / 1400 EUR Solitaire T is giving you 70 hours per charge in normal BT mode and 35 hours in BT "High Quality" mode.

In my particular case I charging my iO-12 every 10-15 days, and I doing this only when the battery is showing about 30%.

About price and sound quality:

Here in Europe the official price of the Momentum 4 is 370 EUR and the iO-12 is 1000 EUR, the Dalis being 2.7 times more expensive. Of course now you can finding the M4 more cheap and is very possible that the iO-12 will becoming more cheap in the future (like the more old iO-6 an iO-4 models). The Solitaire T, by the way, after almost 1 year and 5 months of release is even more expensive than initially (by 100 USD / 90 EUR), but T+A products apparently don't often having price reductions apparently maybe because T+A is a more small company. The ML 5909 you can buying new for about 750-800 EUR now and you have very good discounts with the Focal Bathys too.

Putting a value (price) in sound quality differences is complicated and often a personal opinion and decision. For some people the price difference between the M4 and the iO-12 is not a good justification...and maybe even some people will liking the "more fun" sound of the M4 independently of price differences. For others people the price difference is 100% acceptable because the extra (very) better sound of the Dalis is so important for them. This is my case (and in my particular circumstances I'm VERY happy paying extra for the excellent and unique playback buttons of the Dalis, this being the principal aspect that making me sell my Solitaire T after one year of owning).

I'm sure the Dalis aren't sounding 2.7 times better thannthe M4. In audio, like in others areas/products, this things are never following a linear path, and this is why we have the "law of diminishing returns". Sometimes this diminishing returns are ridiculous or only imaginary (!!), and a (very) more expensive product isn't always a guarantee of obtaining genuinely better sound independently of people's sound preferences.

With my comments above I'm not intending convincing you that you must not returning your iO-12, but only giving a little more perspective.
 
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Mar 29, 2024 at 8:01 PM Post #948 of 1,118
Everybody's decisions about sound, pricing, design, etc. are very personal and of course your decision for returning the iO-12 is the right decision for you. But I want making some comments.

About the battery:

The official battery life of the iO-12 is 35 hours. In my test from few months ago, from 100% to 5% I obtaining 41 hours and 9 minutes (Hi-fi setting + ANC Off) at average of 50% volume, a volume level that is very sufficiently loud for me (often I personally need less volume even, but for my test I keeping at 50%).

If we imagine that you obtaining only 35 hours with one charge and you have 500 full charging cycles in your battery, this will giving you 17500 hours. If you use the iO-12 for 7 hours every day (including Saturdays and Sundays), you have 2500 days (7 hours x 2500 days = 17500 hours), you have almost 7 years of use (6.85 exactly), and after that time your battery will having still 80% capacity, meaning that you still have several years before needing a new battery.

The 1000 USD / 1000 EUR ML 5909 giving you 30 hours per charge, I think. The 1700 USD / 1400 EUR Solitaire T is giving you 70 hours per charge in normal BT mode and 35 hours in BT "High Quality" mode.

In my particular case I charging my iO-12 every 10-15 days, and I doing this only when the battery is showing about 30%.

About price and sound quality:

Here in Europe the official price of the Momentum 4 is 370 EUR and the iO-12 is 1000 EUR, the Dalis being 2.7 times more expensive. Of course now you can finding the M4 more cheap and is very possible that the iO-12 will becoming more cheap in the future (like the more old iO-6 an iO-4 models). The Solitaire T, by the way, after almost 1 year and 5 months of release is even more expensive than initially (by 100 USD / 90 EUR), but T+A products apparently don't often having price reductions apparently maybe because T+A is a more small company. The ML 5909 you can buying new for about 750-800 EUR now and you have very good discounts with the Focal Bathys too.

Putting a value (price) in sound quality differences is complicated and often a personal opinion and decision. For some people the price difference between the M4 and the iO-12 is not a good justification...and maybe even some people will liking the "more fun" sound of the M4 independently of price differences. For others people the price difference is 100% acceptable because the extra (very) better sound of the Dalis is so important for them. This is my case (and in my particular circumstances I'm VERY happy paying extra for the excellent and unique playback buttons of the Dalis, this being the principal aspect that making me sell my Solitaire T after one year of owning).

I'm sure the Dalis aren't sounding 2.7 times better thannthe M4. In audio, like in others areas/products, this things are never following a linear path, and this is why we have the "law of diminishing returns". Sometimes this diminishing returns are ridiculous or only imaginary (!!), and a (very) more expensive product isn't always a guarantee of obtaining genuinely better sound independently of people's sound preferences.

With my comments above I'm not intending convincing you that you must not returning your iO-12, but only giving a little more perspective.
Your comments are greatly appreciated. Thank you. I wish the Dalis were priced similarly in the US (as they are in Europe). Here they’re hard to get, new, under $1300 (M4s can often be had for $249 on sale). Either way, I gave it a try, hoping (assuming) they’d be worth that extra premium. Right now I don’t think it is, but what I think I need to do is wait it out and see if there’s a drop in price. So I will definitely keep an eye out.
 
Mar 29, 2024 at 8:03 PM Post #949 of 1,118
Just had the time of my life listening to these with the Dalis. The detail, the soundstage, the clarity… I imagine I need to get the FLAC file to get even more out of it, but even just via YouTube Music and Bluetooth…what a treat.

ANC Off, HiFi Mode







 
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Mar 30, 2024 at 7:39 AM Post #951 of 1,118
Good review and very spot on. Although he has the US pice listed at $999 which is wrong of course (off by $300 lol). Also interesting that he seems to prefer the Bathys overall. This part got me though…

“The DALI IO-12 aren’t a pair of headphones for everyday use, work, or the commute. They are luxury wireless headphones for the person who has expensive habits and taste, and in that context, the DALI IO-12 excel.”

If they aren’t for every day use, what are they for then? I want to listen to my headphones every day. Seems like a odd comment to me.
 
Mar 30, 2024 at 7:59 AM Post #952 of 1,118
Good review and very spot on. Although he has the US pice listed at $999 which is wrong of course (off by $300 lol). Also interesting that he seems to prefer the Bathys overall. This part got me though…

“The DALI IO-12 aren’t a pair of headphones for everyday use, work, or the commute. They are luxury wireless headphones for the person who has expensive habits and taste, and in that context, the DALI IO-12 excel.”

If they aren’t for every day use, what are they for then? I want to listen to my headphones every day. Seems like a odd comment to me.

The review, for me, is giving me mixed feelings, and not because he apparently is preferring the Bathys than the iO-12. I think isn't really a very professional review, is using many cliche comments that don't giving much useful information or, sometimes, just having no meaning at all.

The comment you quoting is frankly ridiculous -- So, if I have expensive habits and taste, the iO-12 is perfect for me??? Ridiculous. Not for everyday use or in the office??? Wow!

Also, comments like this aren't helpful at all: "Right off the bat, the DALI IO-12 is a pair of headphones that sounds confident and musical. Its spacious sound is clear and detailed, with a slight hint of richness across the frequency range, but a hint that doesn’t get in the way of the insight these headphones offer." Confident and musical"?? "The insight these headphones offer"?? -- This comments have absolutely no meaning at all.

And even when he's speaking about wired/passive mode, is very obvious he don't listening to this mode because the audio differences between passive and not passive modes are very obvious, even for people without golden ears.

Is very difficult finding genuinely useful reviews, even in the case of the few publications that don't having a conflict of interest (because of receiving advertising revenue from audio companies)
 
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Mar 30, 2024 at 4:48 PM Post #953 of 1,118
Your comments are greatly appreciated. Thank you. I wish the Dalis were priced similarly in the US (as they are in Europe). Here they’re hard to get, new, under $1300 (M4s can often be had for $249 on sale). Either way, I gave it a try, hoping (assuming) they’d be worth that extra premium. Right now I don’t think it is, but what I think I need to do is wait it out and see if there’s a drop in price. So I will definitely keep an eye out.
10% off thru Easter Sunday at a US dealer
 
Mar 30, 2024 at 6:26 PM Post #955 of 1,118
For once a headphone is more expensive in the US than in Europe. Usually it is the other way around
 
Apr 2, 2024 at 10:57 AM Post #956 of 1,118
Here is one of very best (pop) songs in the history of music. Here the tambourine is can be easily problematic if you put the volume more loud with more neutral or reference sounding headphones (typical warm sound headphones are typically masking the correct reproduction of this instrument for allowing music playing very more loud). The iO-12 is doing excellent balancing act of reproducing the tambourine correctly in this song and not making (so) painful the sound when the volume is (very) more loud.

 
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Apr 2, 2024 at 12:09 PM Post #957 of 1,118
I'm still experiencing some sharpness in the treble (lots of 'tch' and sibilance) that I've never heard before on some recordings. I've been playing around with the two different volume systems to see if I can mitigate it. I'm using a FIIO M17 player (Apt HD bluetooth) and the volume on the IO-12 works but doesn't change the actual volume of the M17 DAP, which I can lower or raise independently. It's a little confusing.
 
Apr 2, 2024 at 12:18 PM Post #958 of 1,118
I'm still experiencing some sharpness in the treble (lots of 'tch' and sibilance) that I've never heard before on some recordings. I've been playing around with the two different volume systems to see if I can mitigate it. I'm using a FIIO M17 player (Apt HD bluetooth) and the volume on the IO-12 works but doesn't change the actual volume of the M17 DAP, which I can lower or raise independently. It's a little confusing.

Is very possible that you are more sensitive to the 5-6 kHz peak in the iO-12, but this area of the frequency spectrum isn't really affecting sibilance. BUT maybe you're even more sensitive for this part of the spectrum that is making things more uncomfortable for your ears.

I think, if this really is a problem for you with a lot of music that you're listening, you have two options: 1) use a good EQ app if you think the rest of the sound of the iO-12 is very good, or 2) maybe you must returning or selling your iO-12 and then find a ANC headphone that is better for you personally.
 
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Apr 2, 2024 at 12:57 PM Post #960 of 1,118
I'm still experiencing some sharpness in the treble (lots of 'tch' and sibilance) that I've never heard before on some recordings. I've been playing around with the two different volume systems to see if I can mitigate it. I'm using a FIIO M17 player (Apt HD bluetooth) and the volume on the IO-12 works but doesn't change the actual volume of the M17 DAP, which I can lower or raise independently. It's a little confusing.
I don’t experience this with my Sony ZX 707 or my phone, is it possible it could be a source issue?
 

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