[jthomp72]

Ok. I’ve spent a few hours and did some a/b comparisons with the momentum 4. Basically everything streetbeat said was accurate. The sub bass in the m4 is and always has been fun. But my goodness the detail and the incredible way that sounds float off into the distance on the Dali. Soundstage too ( although the momentum has a nice sound stage as well…just not as wide. Basically the m4 sound like headphones in comparison. That said…the m4 puts up a worthy competition. It really does and if I weren’t a/b testing I wouldn’t know any better. lol. Are the Dali and m4 $1000 apart on sound alone? No. A couple hundred? Maybe. The momentum crushes them on battery but the build and sound stand out on the Dali. Kinda struggling with the difference in price.

Have you tried the Bathys or PX8 yet? Either of those might be closer to your speed and somewhat within the price spread that you were talking about.

 

[musingclouds]

Ok. I’ve spent a few hours and did some a/b comparisons with the momentum 4. Basically everything streetbeat said was accurate. The sub bass in the m4 is and always has been fun. But my goodness the detail and the incredible way that sounds float off into the distance on the Dali. Soundstage too ( although the momentum has a nice sound stage as well…just not as wide. Basically the m4 sound like headphones in comparison. That said…the m4 puts up a worthy competition. It really does and if I weren’t a/b testing I wouldn’t know any better. lol. Are the Dali and m4 $1000 apart on sound alone? No. A couple hundred? Maybe. The momentum crushes them on battery but the build and sound stand out on the Dali. Kinda struggling with the difference in price overall though.

Luxury items are meant to be enjoyed, not fussed over in value. If you get daily use out of them that’s good enough also def give them 25 hours at least

Also don’t go to the Sennheiser subreddit… you’ll see way too many horror stories about the M3/M4s…

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

Have you tried the Bathys or PX8 yet? Either of those might be closer to your speed and somewhat within the price spread that you were talking about.

Nah. neither have passive listening so was never interested. I like having to not rely on the battery 100% of the time

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

Luxury items are meant to be enjoyed, not fussed over in value. If you get daily use out of them that’s good enough also def give them 25 hours at least

Also don’t go to the Sennheiser subreddit… you’ll see way too many horror stories about the M3/M4s…

Oh I've definitely seen all that on Reddit. I’ve had the M4s for over a year and never had an issue. 2 pairs actually with no issue. They’ve been reliable…mine at least.

Side note…I’m listening to the dalis as I type this hearing new sounds I’ve never heard before in songs I’ve been listening to for decades. Detail retrieval is truly incredible

 

[musingclouds]

Side note…I’m listening to the dalis as I type this hearing new sounds I’ve never heard before in songs I’ve been listening to for decades. Detail retrieval is truly incredible

That is what you have to decide is worth it to you

 

[iGarikus]

The only issue with iO-12 is Adaptive LL with cracks and pops, while for example 5909 is flawless in all modes

Hello,
Sorry, I didn’t quite understand, could you explain in more detail, please, what you mean by these “cracks and pops”? Does this occur in certain cases or occasionally? As I already noted, I got a somewhat similar "cracks" thing with UGREEN (this occurs about once every 10 seconds, approximately), while the BTD-800 works 100% clean (as long as it remains connected before involuntarily going into "prostration" somewhere by itself).

 

[streetbeat]

Ok. I’ve spent a few hours and did some a/b comparisons with the momentum 4. Basically everything streetbeat said was accurate. The sub bass in the m4 is and always has been fun. But my goodness the detail and the incredible way that sounds float off into the distance on the Dali. Soundstage too ( although the momentum has a nice sound stage as well…just not as wide. Basically the m4 sound like headphones in comparison. That said…the m4 puts up a worthy competition. It really does and if I weren’t a/b testing I wouldn’t know any better. lol. Are the Dali and m4 $1000 apart on sound alone? No. A couple hundred? Maybe. The momentum crushes them on battery but the build and sound stand out on the Dali. Kinda struggling with the difference in price overall though.

Happy to hear you liked them. Agree on your points, there's no linear justification of iO-12 to be absolutely better than M4s if one enjoys the latter. I do keep both - well, actually more - because 1) I like different sound signatures so all my collection is on regular rotation, 2) my music preference isn't too hi-fi demanding, 3) I use M4s for commute/work (better mic, better portability, better battery, they're relatively cheap so I don't worry about rough usage), 4) I got some spare budget so no regrets.

 

[streetbeat]

Hello,
Sorry, I didn’t quite understand, could you explain in more detail, please, what you mean by these “cracks and pops”? Does this occur in certain cases or occasionally? As I already noted, I got a somewhat similar "cracks" thing with UGREEN (this occurs about once every 10 seconds, approximately), while the BTD-800 works 100% clean (as long as it remains connected before involuntarily going into "prostration" somewhere by itself).

Yes, that's the same kind of issue you experienced with your UGREEN dongle. When iO-12 are connected to BT-W5, the dongle selects aptX Adaptive codec. As you may know, Adaptive has two flavors - high quality and low latency. HQ is chosen by default, and iO-12 work great in this mode. But once I want to watch YouTube or a movie w/o lip-sync issues, I enable LL mode on the dongle - that's where issue appear in case of iO-12, i.e. every 10-20 sec I hear extremely annoying crackling sound artefacts. Looks like protocol configuration is a bit different on iO-12 and BT-W5 so audio packets are being forcefully cut or discarded by one or the other side. Because, as I said, ML 5909 works perfectly fine in Adaptive LL mode, so it's deffo not a harware problem with Creative dongle.
BTD-800 is quite dated, so I assume it uses probably standard aptX or aptX HD, these were great connection-quality-wise in my experience as well.
Hope that helps, but feel free to ask if something is still not so clear.

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

Happy to hear you liked them. Agree on your points, there's no linear justification of iO-12 to be absolutely better than M4s if one enjoys the latter. I do keep both - well, actually more - because 1) I like different sound signatures so all my collection is on regular rotation, 2) my music preference isn't too hi-fi demanding, 3) I use M4s for commute/work (better mic, better portability, better battery, they're relatively cheap so I don't worry about rough usage), 4) I got some spare budget so no regrets.

I’m the opposite actually. I’m sort of a minimalist in that I tend to gravitate towards one whatever it is that can do everything. Not to mention the type of music I enjoy does in fact lean more so towards mid to high end. If I keep the Dali, the momentum’s are going up for sale. Not only to help fund the Dali purchase but because I’m always going to grab the Dali, and the momentum sitting there collecting dust will drive me crazy. Lol. I’m going to give the Dali a full day of testing today and figure out what next but tbh I’m not sure how you go back despite the price difference. I will miss the battery on the momentum however. That’s for sure but reading that Dali is ready to service the battery if and when the time comes is a plus…although I’d rather just do it myself. Not to mention that the passive listening option means they’ll never be “throw away” headphones, which is one reason I’ve stayed away from Focal, B&W etc.

 

[iGarikus]

Yes, that's the same kind of issue you experienced with your UGREEN dongle. When iO-12 are connected to BT-W5, the dongle selects aptX Adaptive codec. As you may know, Adaptive has two flavors - high quality and low latency. HQ is chosen by default, and iO-12 work great in this mode. But once I want to watch YouTube or a movie w/o lip-sync issues, I enable LL mode on the dongle - that's where issue appear in case of iO-12, i.e. every 10-20 sec I hear extremely annoying crackling sound artefacts. Looks like protocol configuration is a bit different on iO-12 and BT-W5 so audio packets are being forcefully cut or discarded by one or the other side. Because, as I said, ML 5909 works perfectly fine in Adaptive LL mode, so it's deffo not a harware problem with Creative dongle.
BTD-800 is quite dated, so I assume it uses probably standard aptX or aptX HD, these were great connection-quality-wise in my experience as well.
Hope that helps, but feel free to ask if something is still not so clear.

Thank you very much for your response! Perhaps now it has become clear to me. But how can you switch the connection mode? Is this done through special branded apps for your dongle or by re-pairing the headphones in some way? I can’t find how to see in what mode the headphones are connected to my dongle, it is simply defined as an audio output device (I can see only its name, no marks like latency and etc)..

 

[angelom]

My ears aren't so blessed I'm afraid I mean, I don't hear codec difference.

Believe me, your ears are very possibly absolutely fine. So, so much exaggeration we see constantly (and for many years) in audio forums about codecs differences, lossy vs lossless, wired vs BT, and very more things. In genuine strict blind tests MANY people that often speaking of (BIG) differences in this different aspects will repeatedly failing this tests.

BUT, two things don't requiring "blessed" ears for hearing a real difference in audio: tonal balance/frequency response differences AND recording/mastering quality differences.

 

[streetbeat]

I’m the opposite actually. I’m sort of a minimalist in that I tend to gravitate towards one whatever it is that can do everything. Not to mention the type of music I enjoy does in fact lean more so towards mid to high end. If I keep the Dali, the momentum’s are going up for sale. Not only to help fund the Dali purchase but because I’m always going to grab the Dali, and the momentum sitting there collecting dust will drive me crazy. Lol. I’m going to give the Dali a full day of testing today and figure out what next but tbh I’m not sure how you go back despite the price difference. I will miss the battery on the momentum however. That’s for sure but reading that Dali is ready to service the battery if and when the time comes is a plus…although I’d rather just do it myself. Not to mention that the passive listening option means they’ll never be “throw away” headphones, which is one reason I’ve stayed away from Focal, B&W etc.

Totally understood. If I had to choose only one pair, that would probably be M4 as most versatile, balanced option. Can't see myself going out with iO-12 on head.
Seems T+A Solitaire T tick all the checks, but I don't consider it due to ugly design to my taste.

 

[streetbeat]

Thank you very much for your response! Perhaps now it has become clear to me. But how can you switch the connection mode? Is this done through special branded apps for your dongle or by re-pairing the headphones in some way? I can’t find how to see in what mode the headphones are connected to my dongle, it is simply defined as an audio output device (I can see only its name, no marks like latency and etc)..

I have experience with BTD 600 and BT-W5 only. Both use color indicator for that purpose.
BT-W5 goes with a companion desktop app, where modes can be chosen (see below). But curious users discovered that HQ/LL mode could be changed by triple pressing the device button, that is very handy I must say, especially for Linux users

P.S. BTD 600 goes in a different way proposing sort of a dynamic aptX Adaptive, i.e. user cannot influence on that. I didn't see any details on how it actually works. In fact, I use it for music/calls only so cannot comment on its latency performance really.

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

Totally understood. If I had to choose only one pair, that would probably be M4 as most versatile, balanced option. Can't see myself going out with iO-12 on head.
Seems T+A Solitaire T tick all the checks, but I don't consider it due to ugly design to my taste.

I mean ...just like Sennheisers I'd be listening at home mostly and taking them with me when traveling etc.

Seaking of versatile... listening on passive mode right now and it's really freaking good. Add a bit of eq to passive and it's perfect. Nice to have a really good passive listening option

 

[streetbeat]

I mean ...just like Sennheisers I'd be listening at home mostly and taking them with me when traveling etc.

Seaking of versatile... listening on passive mode right now and it's really freaking good. Add a bit of eq to passive and it's perfect. Nice to have a really passive listening option

Interestingly, passive listening is probably the only use case I don't care really Wireless tech is very good nowadays.